Great Transference question
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Great Transference question
Is there an explanation of what is great transference?
Afaik is not the same as rainbow-light-body, so it is pointed in a ChNN book because says that an individual that manifests great transferes does not manifest death and an individual that manifests rainbow-light-body does.
Anyone knows?
Afaik is not the same as rainbow-light-body, so it is pointed in a ChNN book because says that an individual that manifests great transferes does not manifest death and an individual that manifests rainbow-light-body does.
Anyone knows?
true dharma is inexpressible.
The bodhisattva nourishes from bodhicitta, through whatever method the Buddha has given him. Oh joy.
The bodhisattva nourishes from bodhicitta, through whatever method the Buddha has given him. Oh joy.
Re: Great Transference question
The Ati yoga Vidyadharas (Sri Simha etc.) who left a last testament departed in the manner of wisdom rainbow light. Guru Rinpoche and Pandita Vimalamitra endure as great transference kayas.javier.espinoza.t wrote: ↑Mon Apr 02, 2018 10:44 am Is there an explanation of what is great transference?
Afaik is not the same as rainbow-light-body, so it is pointed in a ChNN book because says that an individual that manifests great transferes does not manifest death and an individual that manifests rainbow-light-body does.
Anyone knows?
The profound path of the master.
-- Virūpa, Vajra Lines
-- Virūpa, Vajra Lines
Re: Great Transference question
Longchenpa describes this in detail in the tsig don rinpochei dzod.
"All phenomena of samsara depend on the mind, so when the essence of mind is purified, samsara is purified. Since the phenomena of nirvana depend on the pristine consciousness of vidyā, because one remains in the immediacy of vidyā, buddhahood arises on its own. All critical points are summarized with those two." - Longchenpa
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Re: Great Transference question
It requires transmision?
true dharma is inexpressible.
The bodhisattva nourishes from bodhicitta, through whatever method the Buddha has given him. Oh joy.
The bodhisattva nourishes from bodhicitta, through whatever method the Buddha has given him. Oh joy.
Re: Great Transference question
If you're a student of ChNN, then you require direct introduction as well as having received thogal first.
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Re: Great Transference question
Oh i'm not on that level , it is necesary to have them both for only know the difference between the two attainments?Norwegian wrote: ↑Tue Apr 03, 2018 2:24 amIf you're a student of ChNN, then you require direct introduction as well as having received thogal first.
true dharma is inexpressible.
The bodhisattva nourishes from bodhicitta, through whatever method the Buddha has given him. Oh joy.
The bodhisattva nourishes from bodhicitta, through whatever method the Buddha has given him. Oh joy.
Re: Great Transference question
It is necessary to have that if you want to study that text, according to ChNN.javier.espinoza.t wrote: ↑Tue Apr 03, 2018 3:57 amOh i'm not on that level , it is necesary to have them both for only know the difference between the two attainments?
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Re: Great Transference question
Is this correct?
https://soonyata.home.xs4all.nl/sorubasamadhi.htm
https://soonyata.home.xs4all.nl/sorubasamadhi.htm
true dharma is inexpressible.
The bodhisattva nourishes from bodhicitta, through whatever method the Buddha has given him. Oh joy.
The bodhisattva nourishes from bodhicitta, through whatever method the Buddha has given him. Oh joy.
Re: Great Transference question
Chaitanya Mahaprabhu was a Dzogchen practitioner? I frequented a Hare Krishna temple very often as a kid and I am pretty sure they would take a lot of offence to that. The information on that page may or may not be correct, you are probably a much better of judge of that than I am, but I would be very suspicious of a page with a claim like that.javier.espinoza.t wrote: ↑Tue Apr 03, 2018 4:19 am Is this correct?
https://soonyata.home.xs4all.nl/sorubasamadhi.htm
Re: Great Transference question
No. Great transference mean you don't leave anything behind, not even nails or hair.javier.espinoza.t wrote: ↑Tue Apr 03, 2018 4:19 am Is this correct?
https://soonyata.home.xs4all.nl/sorubasamadhi.htm
/magnus
"We are all here to help each other go through this thing, whatever it is."
~Kurt Vonnegut
"The principal practice is Guruyoga. But we need to understand that any secondary practice combined with Guruyoga becomes a principal practice." ChNNR (Teachings on Thun and Ganapuja)
~Kurt Vonnegut
"The principal practice is Guruyoga. But we need to understand that any secondary practice combined with Guruyoga becomes a principal practice." ChNNR (Teachings on Thun and Ganapuja)
Re: Great Transference question
And they can't even get that right. According to the legend, at the end of his life Caitanya merged into a religious statue (Tota Gopinatha), hence the little fracture on the statue.LolCat wrote: ↑Tue Apr 03, 2018 5:03 amChaitanya Mahaprabhu was a Dzogchen practitioner? I frequented a Hare Krishna temple very often as a kid and I am pretty sure they would take a lot of offence to that. The information on that page may or may not be correct, you are probably a much better of judge of that than I am, but I would be very suspicious of a page with a claim like that.javier.espinoza.t wrote: ↑Tue Apr 03, 2018 4:19 am Is this correct?
https://soonyata.home.xs4all.nl/sorubasamadhi.htm
Look at those charlatans, madly engaged
in fervent argument.
- Milarepa
in fervent argument.
- Milarepa
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Re: Great Transference question
Interesting.heart wrote: ↑Tue Apr 03, 2018 5:08 amNo. Great transference mean you don't leave anything behind, not even nails or hair.javier.espinoza.t wrote: ↑Tue Apr 03, 2018 4:19 am Is this correct?
https://soonyata.home.xs4all.nl/sorubasamadhi.htm
/magnus
true dharma is inexpressible.
The bodhisattva nourishes from bodhicitta, through whatever method the Buddha has given him. Oh joy.
The bodhisattva nourishes from bodhicitta, through whatever method the Buddha has given him. Oh joy.
Re: Great Transference question
There is no such restriction in terms of having received thogal teachings. DC students who have not received Longsal Thogal teachings are requested not to read the Longsal Thogal book, this does not extend to any books that include thogal material. That would be a serious limitation.javier.espinoza.t wrote: ↑Tue Apr 03, 2018 3:57 amOh i'm not on that level , it is necesary to have them both for only know the difference between the two attainments?
Many students of ChNN read the Yeshe Lama without having received teachings on thogal, one would also be forbidden from reading Malcolm's translations if this were the case.
"All phenomena of samsara depend on the mind, so when the essence of mind is purified, samsara is purified. Since the phenomena of nirvana depend on the pristine consciousness of vidyā, because one remains in the immediacy of vidyā, buddhahood arises on its own. All critical points are summarized with those two." - Longchenpa
Re: Great Transference question
ChNN's restriction is indeed on thogal material itself. He does not forbid you from receiving thogal from other teachers - or of course from him, if you're ready for it, as he says. But he says if you consider yourself as his student and have not received thogal at all whatsoever, then you should not read/study material on thogal until that happens, period. It's that simple. It's not about it being a "serious limitation" whatever that is supposed to be, it's about not reading material you haven't yet qualified to read.Josef wrote: ↑Tue Apr 03, 2018 6:45 pmThere is no such restriction in terms of having received thogal teachings. DC students who have not received Longsal Thogal teachings are requested not to read the Longsal Thogal book, this does not extend to any books that include thogal material. That would be a serious limitation.javier.espinoza.t wrote: ↑Tue Apr 03, 2018 3:57 amOh i'm not on that level , it is necesary to have them both for only know the difference between the two attainments?
Many students of ChNN read the Yeshe Lama without having received teachings on thogal, one would also be forbidden from reading Malcolm's translations if this were the case.
Re: Great Transference question
Even if that is the case it doesnt mean a student without thogal teachings can't read books that include instructions on thogal.Norwegian wrote: ↑Tue Apr 03, 2018 6:59 pmChNN's restriction is indeed on thogal material itself. He does not forbid you from receiving thogal from other teachers - or of course from him, if you're ready for it, as he says. But he says if you consider yourself as his student and have not received thogal at all whatsoever, then you should not read/study material on thogal until that happens, period. It's that simple. It's not about it being a "serious limitation" whatever that is supposed to be, it's about not reading material you haven't yet qualified to read.Josef wrote: ↑Tue Apr 03, 2018 6:45 pmThere is no such restriction in terms of having received thogal teachings. DC students who have not received Longsal Thogal teachings are requested not to read the Longsal Thogal book, this does not extend to any books that include thogal material. That would be a serious limitation.javier.espinoza.t wrote: ↑Tue Apr 03, 2018 3:57 am
Oh i'm not on that level , it is necesary to have them both for only know the difference between the two attainments?
Many students of ChNN read the Yeshe Lama without having received teachings on thogal, one would also be forbidden from reading Malcolm's translations if this were the case.
One can quite easily choose to only read what is relevant and appropriate to them.
A huge percentage of Rinpoche's students are blatantly ignoring this advice if the restriction is so severe.
"All phenomena of samsara depend on the mind, so when the essence of mind is purified, samsara is purified. Since the phenomena of nirvana depend on the pristine consciousness of vidyā, because one remains in the immediacy of vidyā, buddhahood arises on its own. All critical points are summarized with those two." - Longchenpa
Re: Great Transference question
My understanding is that, a huge number of Rinpoche's students are blatantly ignoring (or simply ignorant of) his request not to read Thogal material without having received teachings.Josef wrote: ↑Tue Apr 03, 2018 7:03 pmEven if that is the case it doesnt mean a student without thogal teachings can't read books that include instructions on thogal.Norwegian wrote: ↑Tue Apr 03, 2018 6:59 pmChNN's restriction is indeed on thogal material itself. He does not forbid you from receiving thogal from other teachers - or of course from him, if you're ready for it, as he says. But he says if you consider yourself as his student and have not received thogal at all whatsoever, then you should not read/study material on thogal until that happens, period. It's that simple. It's not about it being a "serious limitation" whatever that is supposed to be, it's about not reading material you haven't yet qualified to read.Josef wrote: ↑Tue Apr 03, 2018 6:45 pm
There is no such restriction in terms of having received thogal teachings. DC students who have not received Longsal Thogal teachings are requested not to read the Longsal Thogal book, this does not extend to any books that include thogal material. That would be a serious limitation.
Many students of ChNN read the Yeshe Lama without having received teachings on thogal, one would also be forbidden from reading Malcolm's translations if this were the case.
One can quite easily choose to only read what is relevant and appropriate to them.
A huge percentage of Rinpoche's students are blatantly ignoring this advice if the restriction is so severe.
In one of his books he recounts that on a trip to Tibet one of his students had a translation of some thogal material and everyone was passing it around and reading it and feeling like they were getting some cool secret teachings.
He says he was not happy about this, didn't like it at all, because (his words) he takes these teachigs seriously (that's how he put it, implying that the behavior he observered was not taking it seriously).
"Death's second name is 'omnipresent.' On the relative truth it seems we become separate. But on the absolute there is no separation." Lama Dawa
Re: Great Transference question
Like Malcolm recently said in another thread:Josef wrote: ↑Tue Apr 03, 2018 7:03 pmEven if that is the case it doesnt mean a student without thogal teachings can't read books that include instructions on thogal.Norwegian wrote: ↑Tue Apr 03, 2018 6:59 pmChNN's restriction is indeed on thogal material itself. He does not forbid you from receiving thogal from other teachers - or of course from him, if you're ready for it, as he says. But he says if you consider yourself as his student and have not received thogal at all whatsoever, then you should not read/study material on thogal until that happens, period. It's that simple. It's not about it being a "serious limitation" whatever that is supposed to be, it's about not reading material you haven't yet qualified to read.Josef wrote: ↑Tue Apr 03, 2018 6:45 pm
There is no such restriction in terms of having received thogal teachings. DC students who have not received Longsal Thogal teachings are requested not to read the Longsal Thogal book, this does not extend to any books that include thogal material. That would be a serious limitation.
Many students of ChNN read the Yeshe Lama without having received teachings on thogal, one would also be forbidden from reading Malcolm's translations if this were the case.
One can quite easily choose to only read what is relevant and appropriate to them.
A huge percentage of Rinpoche's students are blatantly ignoring this advice if the restriction is so severe.
At any rate, I am merely repeating what ChNN has said a great many times in his teachings.People should not read the text without transmission. I know this is unpopular these days, but well,
Correct. That is precisely it. Just because someone is a student of ChNN does not mean they somehow have their life in perfect order, or is a perfect student, just as it goes if someone is a student of HHDL, Dudjom Rinpoche, Karmapa, or any other teacher. There's many different kinds of students, and some people make mistakes, in varying degrees, minor and/or major ones, despite the quality of their teacher.climb-up wrote: ↑Tue Apr 03, 2018 7:18 pm My understanding is that, a huge number of Rinpoche's students are blatantly ignoring (or simply ignorant of) his request not to read Thogal material without having received teachings.
In one of his books he recounts that on a trip to Tibet one of his students had a translation of some thogal material and everyone was passing it around and reading it and feeling like they were getting some cool secret teachings.
He says he was not happy about this, didn't like it at all, because (his words) he takes these teachigs seriously (that's how he put it, implying that the behavior he observered was not taking it seriously).
There are people who goes against the instructions of their teachers, for example regarding restricted teachings and don't care what they say. So yes you do indeed have Dzogchen Community students who don't give a shit what ChNN says about certain things.
And that is really sad, immensely sad. The consequence of such behavior is that they are hurting the progress of their own path.
Re: Great Transference question
Im familiar with that story. It gets a very important point across. It does not however say, "no student of mine who has not received thogal teachings should ever read any book containing thogal teachings".climb-up wrote: ↑Tue Apr 03, 2018 7:18 pmMy understanding is that, a huge number of Rinpoche's students are blatantly ignoring (or simply ignorant of) his request not to read Thogal material without having received teachings.Josef wrote: ↑Tue Apr 03, 2018 7:03 pmEven if that is the case it doesnt mean a student without thogal teachings can't read books that include instructions on thogal.Norwegian wrote: ↑Tue Apr 03, 2018 6:59 pm
ChNN's restriction is indeed on thogal material itself. He does not forbid you from receiving thogal from other teachers - or of course from him, if you're ready for it, as he says. But he says if you consider yourself as his student and have not received thogal at all whatsoever, then you should not read/study material on thogal until that happens, period. It's that simple. It's not about it being a "serious limitation" whatever that is supposed to be, it's about not reading material you haven't yet qualified to read.
One can quite easily choose to only read what is relevant and appropriate to them.
A huge percentage of Rinpoche's students are blatantly ignoring this advice if the restriction is so severe.
In one of his books he recounts that on a trip to Tibet one of his students had a translation of some thogal material and everyone was passing it around and reading it and feeling like they were getting some cool secret teachings.
He says he was not happy about this, didn't like it at all, because (his words) he takes these teachigs seriously (that's how he put it, implying that the behavior he observered was not taking it seriously).
Theres a big difference.
"All phenomena of samsara depend on the mind, so when the essence of mind is purified, samsara is purified. Since the phenomena of nirvana depend on the pristine consciousness of vidyā, because one remains in the immediacy of vidyā, buddhahood arises on its own. All critical points are summarized with those two." - Longchenpa
Re: Great Transference question
But books on Yangti in the DC book stores require you to have attended a Yangti retreat, and there are no thogal books at all as far as I know showing up on the website. It is quite clear that he does not want people reading them unless they have the transmission.Josef wrote: ↑Tue Apr 03, 2018 7:30 pmIm familiar with that story. It gets a very important point across. It does not however say, "no student of mine who has not received thogal teachings should ever read any book containing thogal teachings".climb-up wrote: ↑Tue Apr 03, 2018 7:18 pmMy understanding is that, a huge number of Rinpoche's students are blatantly ignoring (or simply ignorant of) his request not to read Thogal material without having received teachings.Josef wrote: ↑Tue Apr 03, 2018 7:03 pm
Even if that is the case it doesnt mean a student without thogal teachings can't read books that include instructions on thogal.
One can quite easily choose to only read what is relevant and appropriate to them.
A huge percentage of Rinpoche's students are blatantly ignoring this advice if the restriction is so severe.
In one of his books he recounts that on a trip to Tibet one of his students had a translation of some thogal material and everyone was passing it around and reading it and feeling like they were getting some cool secret teachings.
He says he was not happy about this, didn't like it at all, because (his words) he takes these teachigs seriously (that's how he put it, implying that the behavior he observered was not taking it seriously).
Theres a big difference.
Re: Great Transference question
Yes, the Longsal Thogal and Longsal Yangti books are restricted to students who attended those retreats in person.Aryjna wrote: ↑Tue Apr 03, 2018 7:37 pmBut books on Yangti in the DC book stores require you to have attended a Yangti retreat, and there are no thogal books at all as far as I know showing up on the website. It is quite clear that he does not want people reading them unless they have the transmission.Josef wrote: ↑Tue Apr 03, 2018 7:30 pmIm familiar with that story. It gets a very important point across. It does not however say, "no student of mine who has not received thogal teachings should ever read any book containing thogal teachings".climb-up wrote: ↑Tue Apr 03, 2018 7:18 pm
My understanding is that, a huge number of Rinpoche's students are blatantly ignoring (or simply ignorant of) his request not to read Thogal material without having received teachings.
In one of his books he recounts that on a trip to Tibet one of his students had a translation of some thogal material and everyone was passing it around and reading it and feeling like they were getting some cool secret teachings.
He says he was not happy about this, didn't like it at all, because (his words) he takes these teachigs seriously (that's how he put it, implying that the behavior he observered was not taking it seriously).
Theres a big difference.
"All phenomena of samsara depend on the mind, so when the essence of mind is purified, samsara is purified. Since the phenomena of nirvana depend on the pristine consciousness of vidyā, because one remains in the immediacy of vidyā, buddhahood arises on its own. All critical points are summarized with those two." - Longchenpa