Illusion in Dzogchen

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kalden yungdrung
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Re: Illusion in Dzogchen

Post by kalden yungdrung »

Kunga Lhadzom wrote: Wed Apr 25, 2018 4:09 pm
kalden yungdrung wrote: Tue Apr 24, 2018 5:57 pm
Kunga Lhadzom wrote: Mon Apr 23, 2018 5:08 pm

:applause:
Maybe Nature is the ultimate real?
If EVERYTHING comes from ONE thing
How can there be anything separate. ?
The power of creation (Tsal) is never ending, so the creations out of Nature.

I know I'd like to think of the NATURAL THINGS OF NATURE ( like trees, water, etc) , as being separate from pollution like plastic.....but where does plastic come from ? Everything on this planet is of this planet....even if it came from Mars....everything in the Universe came from the same source....

We call that one source Nature in Dzogchen.
The best meditation is no meditation
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Josef
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Re: Illusion in Dzogchen

Post by Josef »

Kunga Lhadzom wrote: Wed Apr 25, 2018 4:09 pm
kalden yungdrung wrote: Tue Apr 24, 2018 5:57 pm
Kunga Lhadzom wrote: Mon Apr 23, 2018 5:08 pm

:applause:
Maybe Nature is the ultimate real?

If EVERYTHING comes from ONE thing
How can there be anything separate. ?

I know I'd like to think of the NATURAL THINGS OF NATURE ( like trees, water, etc) , as being separate from pollution like plastic.....but where does plastic come from ? Everything on this planet is of this planet....even if it came from Mars....everything in the Universe came from the same source....
Ultimately sure, but that doesnt mean we should let Mordor dominate the free peoples of Middle Earth.
"All phenomena of samsara depend on the mind, so when the essence of mind is purified, samsara is purified. Since the phenomena of nirvana depend on the pristine consciousness of vidyā, because one remains in the immediacy of vidyā, buddhahood arises on its own. All critical points are summarized with those two." - Longchenpa
A Ah Sha Sa Ma Ha
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Re: Illusion in Dzogchen

Post by A Ah Sha Sa Ma Ha »

kalden yungdrung wrote: Wed Apr 25, 2018 9:15 pm
Kunga Lhadzom wrote: Wed Apr 25, 2018 4:09 pm
kalden yungdrung wrote: Tue Apr 24, 2018 5:57 pm Maybe Nature is the ultimate real?

If EVERYTHING comes from ONE thing
How can there be anything separate. ?
The power of creation (Tsal) is never ending, so the creations out of Nature.

I know I'd like to think of the NATURAL THINGS OF NATURE ( like trees, water, etc) , as being separate from pollution like plastic.....but where does plastic come from ? Everything on this planet is of this planet....even if it came from Mars....everything in the Universe came from the same source....
We call that one source Nature in Dzogchen.

Ok :smile: :namaste: :heart:
A Ah Sha Sa Ma Ha
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Re: Illusion in Dzogchen

Post by A Ah Sha Sa Ma Ha »

Josef wrote: Wed Apr 25, 2018 10:03 pm
Kunga Lhadzom wrote: Wed Apr 25, 2018 4:09 pm
kalden yungdrung wrote: Tue Apr 24, 2018 5:57 pm

Maybe Nature is the ultimate real?

If EVERYTHING comes from ONE thing
How can there be anything separate. ?

I know I'd like to think of the NATURAL THINGS OF NATURE ( like trees, water, etc) , as being separate from pollution like plastic.....but where does plastic come from ? Everything on this planet is of this planet....even if it came from Mars....everything in the Universe came from the same source....
Ultimately sure, but that doesnt mean we should let Mordor dominate the free peoples of Middle Earth.
Right, and Snow White shouldn't have taken a bite out of that poisonous apple :crying:
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Josef
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Re: Illusion in Dzogchen

Post by Josef »

Kunga Lhadzom wrote: Wed Apr 25, 2018 10:31 pm
Josef wrote: Wed Apr 25, 2018 10:03 pm
Kunga Lhadzom wrote: Wed Apr 25, 2018 4:09 pm


If EVERYTHING comes from ONE thing
How can there be anything separate. ?

I know I'd like to think of the NATURAL THINGS OF NATURE ( like trees, water, etc) , as being separate from pollution like plastic.....but where does plastic come from ? Everything on this planet is of this planet....even if it came from Mars....everything in the Universe came from the same source....
Ultimately sure, but that doesnt mean we should let Mordor dominate the free peoples of Middle Earth.
Right, and Snow White shouldn't have taken a bite out of that poisonous apple :crying:
Well, at least she didnt know.
That is different from Gandalf being wise enough to see the suffering Saurons rule would bring.
The conduct of a Dzogchen practitioner is based on the view and an understanding of the circumstances of beings.
"All phenomena of samsara depend on the mind, so when the essence of mind is purified, samsara is purified. Since the phenomena of nirvana depend on the pristine consciousness of vidyā, because one remains in the immediacy of vidyā, buddhahood arises on its own. All critical points are summarized with those two." - Longchenpa
Kris
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Re: Illusion in Dzogchen

Post by Kris »

Josef wrote: Wed Apr 25, 2018 10:59 pm
Kunga Lhadzom wrote: Wed Apr 25, 2018 10:31 pm
Josef wrote: Wed Apr 25, 2018 10:03 pm

Ultimately sure, but that doesnt mean we should let Mordor dominate the free peoples of Middle Earth.
Right, and Snow White shouldn't have taken a bite out of that poisonous apple :crying:
Well, at least she didnt know.
That is different from Gandalf being wise enough to see the suffering Saurons rule would bring.
The conduct of a Dzogchen practitioner is based on the view and an understanding of the circumstances of beings.

:good:

Very unique word-play.
The profound path of the master.
-- Virūpa, Vajra Lines
PeterC
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Re: Illusion in Dzogchen

Post by PeterC »

Josef wrote: Wed Apr 25, 2018 10:59 pm
That is different from Gandalf being wise enough to see the suffering Saurons rule would bring.
The conduct of a Dzogchen practitioner is based on the view and an understanding of the circumstances of beings.
Even Gandalf and Sauron were still caught in the cycle of Samsara. The only one that might - possibly - have realized the natural state is Tom Bombadil. Or perhaps he was just practising the rushens
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Re: Illusion in Dzogchen

Post by krodha »

Kunga Lhadzom wrote: Wed Apr 25, 2018 4:09 pmIf EVERYTHING comes from ONE thing, How can there be anything separate? ...everything in the Universe came from the same source.
This is not actually a view supported by Dzogchen, or Buddhism in general.
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Re: Illusion in Dzogchen

Post by A Ah Sha Sa Ma Ha »

krodha wrote: Thu Apr 26, 2018 8:45 am
Kunga Lhadzom wrote: Wed Apr 25, 2018 4:09 pmIf EVERYTHING comes from ONE thing, How can there be anything separate? ...everything in the Universe came from the same source.
This is not actually a view supported by Dzogchen, or Buddhism in general.
That's where I'm stuck then... :shrug:
OFF the top of my head, I thought that one thing was symbolically referred to as Samanatabhadra. .
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kalden yungdrung
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Re: Illusion in Dzogchen

Post by kalden yungdrung »

Kunga Lhadzom wrote: Thu Apr 26, 2018 12:24 pm
krodha wrote: Thu Apr 26, 2018 8:45 am
Kunga Lhadzom wrote: Wed Apr 25, 2018 4:09 pmIf EVERYTHING comes from ONE thing, How can there be anything separate? ...everything in the Universe came from the same source.
This is not actually a view supported by Dzogchen, or Buddhism in general.
That's where I'm stuck then... :shrug:
OFF the top of my head, I thought that one thing was symbolically referred to as Samanatabhadra. .
Samantabhadra is that aspect which is inherent present in very sentient being
This indicates the presence in sentient beings of an intrinsic awareness (rig-pa), one that is in itself beyond time and space, but which engages itself in the infinitudes of time and space.”

=====================
By:
Dmitry Ermakov

IN ADDITION:

viewtopic.php?f=78&t=26168

THE BASE:
This Primordial State (gnas lugs) or Primordial Base (ye gzhi) represents the Primordial State of Buddha (ye sangs rgyas pa), is primordially present in all sentient beings (sems can), but remains unrecognized. In other words, sentient beings are ignorant of this Primordial Base, and it is this ignorance (ma rig pa) which is the cause for Samsara or Khorwa ('khor ba).

Dzogchen teachings recognize 3 aspects of the Primordial Вase:

- its Essence (ngo bo) which is Emptiness (stong pa) or Primordial Purity (ka dag)
- its Nature (rang bzhin) which is Self-Awareness (rang rig) or Clarity (gsal ba)
- its Energy (thugs rje, literally 'compassion'), which represents the primordial inseparability of Self-
Awareness and Clarity (ye gnas rig stong dbyer med) and has the quality of being uninterrupted and non-stop (ma 'gag pa).

These 3 aspects are also known as the 3 Bodies of the Buddha of the Base (gzhi'i sku gsum).

====================
viewtopic.php?f=78&t=21750
By:
John Reynolds

Kuntu Zangpo, the Primordial Buddha, the Buddha from all eternity, has been awake and enlightened from the very beginning by
this name Kuntu Zangpo is also employed to designate the principle of enlightenment, or the Buddha-nature as such, that is immanent within every individual stream of consciousness and is synonymous, in the Dzogchen context, with the Bodhichitta (Absolute).
The best meditation is no meditation
A Ah Sha Sa Ma Ha
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Re: Illusion in Dzogchen

Post by A Ah Sha Sa Ma Ha »

:heart: :heart: :heart:

Thank you Kalden Yungdrung....
I wish there was a Dzogchen University we could go to.....i need to....i feel so scattered. .and lost in concepts. .
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Re: Illusion in Dzogchen

Post by kalden yungdrung »

Kunga Lhadzom wrote: Thu Apr 26, 2018 2:41 pm :heart: :heart: :heart:

Thank you Kalden Yungdrung....
I wish there was a Dzogchen University we could go to.....i need to....i feel so scattered. .and lost in concepts. .
Dharma study is a must and especialy regarding (correct)Dzogchen terms and (correct) understandings etc.
Whereas Dzogchen practice, is much more easier, but some preparations are also here needed (like the study etc.).
The best meditation is no meditation
A Ah Sha Sa Ma Ha
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Re: Illusion in Dzogchen

Post by A Ah Sha Sa Ma Ha »

kalden yungdrung wrote: Thu Apr 26, 2018 2:51 pm
Kunga Lhadzom wrote: Thu Apr 26, 2018 2:41 pm :heart: :heart: :heart:

Thank you Kalden Yungdrung....
I wish there was a Dzogchen University we could go to.....i need to....i feel so scattered. .and lost in concepts. .
Dharma study is a must and especialy regarding (correct)Dzogchen terms and (correct) understandings etc.
Whereas Dzogchen practice, is much more easier, but some preparations are also here needed (like the study etc.).
Yes :rolleye:

And I need to focus on this more...
And i feel very overwhelmed
AT all I need to learn...
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kalden yungdrung
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Re: Illusion in Dzogchen

Post by kalden yungdrung »

Kunga Lhadzom wrote: Thu Apr 26, 2018 3:48 pm
kalden yungdrung wrote: Thu Apr 26, 2018 2:51 pm
Kunga Lhadzom wrote: Thu Apr 26, 2018 2:41 pm :heart: :heart: :heart:

Thank you Kalden Yungdrung....
I wish there was a Dzogchen University we could go to.....i need to....i feel so scattered. .and lost in concepts. .
Dharma study is a must and especialy regarding (correct)Dzogchen terms and (correct) understandings etc.
Whereas Dzogchen practice, is much more easier, but some preparations are also here needed (like the study etc.).
Yes :rolleye:

And I need to focus on this more...
And i feel very overwhelmed
AT all I need to learn...
Tashi delek K.L.,

If you are serious Dzogchenpa, you will be helped in your search for Dzogchen by other Dzogchenpas here aboard, no doubt about it.

Yeh Dzogchen can be overwhelming, because Dzogchen is a "Self" realizing practice.

The truths about ones inherent pure and complete Mind / Bodhicitta (Absolute), becomes very clear namely the self liberating aspects, which can be experienced after the Direct Introduction to one´s Mind and Guru Yoga etc., done by one´s Rigdzin Rinpoche.


The study of Dzogchen, before and after the direct Introduction, is of great importance because of the mistakes a Dzogchenpa can make regarding the correct practice of the visions as well the vision about what is /and not, Dzogchen / Rigpa etc.

So there are also certain Dzogchen Samayas which have to be observed, which differ greatly from the Tantric Samayas.
IMO, Dzogchen Samayas are easier to follow than the Tantric Samayas.
The best meditation is no meditation
A Ah Sha Sa Ma Ha
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Re: Illusion in Dzogchen

Post by A Ah Sha Sa Ma Ha »

kalden yungdrung wrote: Fri Apr 27, 2018 1:00 am If you are serious Dzogchenpa, you will be helped in your search for Dzogchen by other Dzogchenpas here aboard, no doubt about it.
How can i know if i'm serious ?
Can you ask me some questions ?


All i know is that all my life i've been driven by something to find THE TRUTH....
I studied Buddhism since 1996 & have a teacher (since 2003) (he's also from Mustang, Nepal)
I read some Dzogchen & loved Longchenpa
I attended a webcast of ChNN, (DI) Direct Introduction/Pointing Out...
I don't know if i "got it" (sometimes i think i did, but nothing different occurred at the time, that's why i'm not sure)
i got a few Dzogchen books the past year....i haven't finished reading them yet...


I have a LOT of distractions....I waste a LOT of time....
In my heart i want to do the right thing...but i feel so overwhelmed i don't know how to start Dzogchen :rolleye:
Malcolm suggested, i start with Ngondro...so far i did ONE full prostration (when my teacher came to visit me about a month ago)
I LOVE learning...I wish i could go away and learn without all my distractions...but if i went to India i'm afraid i would suffer too much with all the bugs & heat....

Learning another language is VERY difficult for me....no way could i learn Tibetan....

I wish when i died i could have a Rainbow Body.....i am really repulsed of having to go any other way... :crying:

Do you think i'm a good candidate to be a serious Dzogchen practitioner ?



Thank You :heart:
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kalden yungdrung
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Re: Illusion in Dzogchen

Post by kalden yungdrung »

Kunga Lhadzom wrote: Fri Apr 27, 2018 3:06 am
kalden yungdrung wrote: Fri Apr 27, 2018 1:00 am If you are serious Dzogchenpa, you will be helped in your search for Dzogchen by other Dzogchenpas here aboard, no doubt about it.
How can i know if i'm serious ?
Can you ask me some questions ?


All i know is that all my life i've been driven by something to find THE TRUTH....
I studied Buddhism since 1996 & have a teacher (since 2003) (he's also from Mustang, Nepal)
I read some Dzogchen & loved Longchenpa
I attended a webcast of ChNN, (DI) Direct Introduction/Pointing Out...
I don't know if i "got it" (sometimes i think i did, but nothing different occurred at the time, that's why i'm not sure)
i got a few Dzogchen books the past year....i haven't finished reading them yet...


I have a LOT of distractions....I waste a LOT of time....
In my heart i want to do the right thing...but i feel so overwhelmed i don't know how to start Dzogchen :rolleye:
Malcolm suggested, i start with Ngondro...so far i did ONE full prostration (when my teacher came to visit me about a month ago)
I LOVE learning...I wish i could go away and learn without all my distractions...but if i went to India i'm afraid i would suffer too much with all the bugs & heat....

Learning another language is VERY difficult for me....no way could i learn Tibetan....

I wish when i died i could have a Rainbow Body.....i am really repulsed of having to go any other way... :crying:

Do you think i'm a good candidate to be a serious Dzogchen practitioner ?



Thank You :heart:
Tashi delek K.L.,

Thanks for your reply.

Finding the truth is an individual task and based on insight into ones abilities.

See you are on the good way to get emancipated and you have a Teacher.
If you understand basic Dzogchen and want to practice it, then you need the introduction into your Mind from your Master.

- Guess you are in a Dzogchen Tradition ?

So if you can practice Trekchöd, then it will help you te reduce distractions and to get fixed into the saddle.

But you by yourself must have the firm decision, to go for:'

- Study
- Your Guru
- Introduction in one´s Natural State
- preparations
- Practice of Trekchöd and Thögal

- Are you motivated ?
The best meditation is no meditation
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kalden yungdrung
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Re: Illusion in Dzogchen

Post by kalden yungdrung »

kalden yungdrung wrote: Fri Apr 27, 2018 3:45 am
Kunga Lhadzom wrote: Fri Apr 27, 2018 3:06 am
kalden yungdrung wrote: Fri Apr 27, 2018 1:00 am If you are serious Dzogchenpa, you will be helped in your search for Dzogchen by other Dzogchenpas here aboard, no doubt about it.
How can i know if i'm serious ?
Can you ask me some questions ?


All i know is that all my life i've been driven by something to find THE TRUTH....
I studied Buddhism since 1996 & have a teacher (since 2003) (he's also from Mustang, Nepal)
I read some Dzogchen & loved Longchenpa
I attended a webcast of ChNN, (DI) Direct Introduction/Pointing Out...
I don't know if i "got it" (sometimes i think i did, but nothing different occurred at the time, that's why i'm not sure)
i got a few Dzogchen books the past year....i haven't finished reading them yet...


I have a LOT of distractions....I waste a LOT of time....
In my heart i want to do the right thing...but i feel so overwhelmed i don't know how to start Dzogchen :rolleye:
Malcolm suggested, i start with Ngondro...so far i did ONE full prostration (when my teacher came to visit me about a month ago)
I LOVE learning...I wish i could go away and learn without all my distractions...but if i went to India i'm afraid i would suffer too much with all the bugs & heat....

Learning another language is VERY difficult for me....no way could i learn Tibetan....

I wish when i died i could have a Rainbow Body.....i am really repulsed of having to go any other way... :crying:

Do you think i'm a good candidate to be a serious Dzogchen practitioner ?



Thank You :heart:
Tashi delek K.L.,

Thanks for your reply.

Finding the truth is an individual task and based on insight into ones abilities.

See you are on the good way to get emancipated and you have a Teacher.
If you understand basic Dzogchen and want to practice it, then you need the introduction into your Mind / Natural State, from your Master.

- Guess you are in a Dzogchen Tradition ?

So if you can practice Trekchöd, then it will help you te reduce distractions and to get fixed into the saddle.

But you by yourself must have the firm decision, to go for:'

- Study
- Your Guru
- Introduction into one´s Natural State
- preparations
- Practice of Trekchöd and Thögal
- Dark Retreat

- Are you motivated ?
The best meditation is no meditation
Vasana
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Re: Illusion in Dzogchen

Post by Vasana »

Kunga Lhadzom wrote: Fri Apr 27, 2018 3:06 am
kalden yungdrung wrote: Fri Apr 27, 2018 1:00 am If you are serious Dzogchenpa, you will be helped in your search for Dzogchen by other Dzogchenpas here aboard, no doubt about it.
How can i know if i'm serious ?
Can you ask me some questions ?


All i know is that all my life i've been driven by something to find THE TRUTH....
I studied Buddhism since 1996 & have a teacher (since 2003) (he's also from Mustang, Nepal)
I read some Dzogchen & loved Longchenpa
I attended a webcast of ChNN, (DI) Direct Introduction/Pointing Out...
I don't know if i "got it" (sometimes i think i did, but nothing different occurred at the time, that's why i'm not sure)
i got a few Dzogchen books the past year....i haven't finished reading them yet...


I have a LOT of distractions....I waste a LOT of time....
In my heart i want to do the right thing...but i feel so overwhelmed i don't know how to start Dzogchen :rolleye:
Malcolm suggested, i start with Ngondro...so far i did ONE full prostration (when my teacher came to visit me about a month ago)
I LOVE learning...I wish i could go away and learn without all my distractions...but if i went to India i'm afraid i would suffer too much with all the bugs & heat....

Learning another language is VERY difficult for me....no way could i learn Tibetan....

I wish when i died i could have a Rainbow Body.....i am really repulsed of having to go any other way... :crying:

Do you think i'm a good candidate to be a serious Dzogchen practitioner ?



Thank You :heart:
If you have received D.I from Norbu Rinpoche then it really makes sense to simply read more material from him if you want to clear away confusion and hesitation. ( some bools require specific transmission, some just require D.I)

By all means continue Ngondro if you are able to but I think also reading some of Rinpoche's texts might clarify how to proceed. Did Malcolm specify whether he was referring to a traditional Ngondro or Ngondro in. Dzogchen sense?

Karmapa 17 (OTD) once remarked that he thought the common preliminaries (4 thoughts that turn the mind to the dharma) were in a certain sense, more profound than the uncommon. We can't expect swift or steady progress as Buddhists let alone Dzogchenpas if half the time we are not even facing in the direction of the dharma!

If completing a ngondro seems unrealistic for you any time soon, Norbu Rinpoche's Semde book, "shiné and lhagtong in the Dzogchen teachings' is a very accessible place to start and outlays practices for beings of lesser middling and higher capacities. I say it is accessible since shamatha and vippassana are more or less quite straightforward and the arc of development is quite clear.
'When thoughts arise, recognise them clearly as your teacher'— Gampopa
'When alone, examine your mind, when among others, examine your speech'.— Atisha
Joseph
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Re: Illusion in Dzogchen

Post by Joseph »

Vasana wrote: Fri Apr 27, 2018 7:14 am
Kunga Lhadzom wrote: Fri Apr 27, 2018 3:06 am
kalden yungdrung wrote: Fri Apr 27, 2018 1:00 am If you are serious Dzogchenpa, you will be helped in your search for Dzogchen by other Dzogchenpas here aboard, no doubt about it.
How can i know if i'm serious ?
Can you ask me some questions ?


All i know is that all my life i've been driven by something to find THE TRUTH....
I studied Buddhism since 1996 & have a teacher (since 2003) (he's also from Mustang, Nepal)
I read some Dzogchen & loved Longchenpa
I attended a webcast of ChNN, (DI) Direct Introduction/Pointing Out...
I don't know if i "got it" (sometimes i think i did, but nothing different occurred at the time, that's why i'm not sure)
i got a few Dzogchen books the past year....i haven't finished reading them yet...


I have a LOT of distractions....I waste a LOT of time....
In my heart i want to do the right thing...but i feel so overwhelmed i don't know how to start Dzogchen :rolleye:
Malcolm suggested, i start with Ngondro...so far i did ONE full prostration (when my teacher came to visit me about a month ago)
I LOVE learning...I wish i could go away and learn without all my distractions...but if i went to India i'm afraid i would suffer too much with all the bugs & heat....

Learning another language is VERY difficult for me....no way could i learn Tibetan....

I wish when i died i could have a Rainbow Body.....i am really repulsed of having to go any other way... :crying:

Do you think i'm a good candidate to be a serious Dzogchen practitioner ?



Thank You :heart:
If you have received D.I from Norbu Rinpoche then it really makes sense to simply read more material from him if you want to clear away confusion and hesitation. ( some bools require specific transmission, some just require D.I)

By all means continue Ngondro if you are able to but I think also reading some of Rinpoche's texts might clarify how to proceed. Did Malcolm specify whether he was referring to a traditional Ngondro or Ngondro in. Dzogchen sense?

Karmapa 17 (OTD) once remarked that he thought the common preliminaries (4 thoughts that turn the mind to the dharma) were in a certain sense, more profound than the uncommon. We can't expect swift or steady progress as Buddhists let alone Dzogchenpas if half the time we are not even facing in the direction of the dharma!

If completing a ngondro seems unrealistic for you any time soon, Norbu Rinpoche's Semde book, "shiné and lhagtong in the Dzogchen teachings' is a very accessible place to start and outlays practices for beings of lesser middling and higher capacities. I say it is accessible since shamatha and vippassana are more or less quite straightforward and the arc of development is quite clear.
Just want to say that the book Shine and lhagtong has been immensely helpful for me ! I realized I was out into territory I had no right being in , so stepped back and have found this text really helpful!

:anjali:
"When you play in dirt, you get dirty" - Jimmy McNulty
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