Rolpa energy

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kalden yungdrung
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Rolpa energy

Post by kalden yungdrung » Mon May 07, 2018 7:22 pm

Tashi delek,

A stupid question.

- Is the Rolpa energy responsible for our daily vison consciousness ?
- Or the 3 energies together ?

By this is meant the eye which is watching television .
We know how this runs in western medicine.

In how far can we consider / compare, the western medical approach regarding optical observation ? (in relation to the Tibetan / Indian Hindu belief)
The best meditation is no meditation

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javier.espinoza.t
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Re: Rolpa energy

Post by javier.espinoza.t » Tue May 08, 2018 3:14 am

rolpa is liked to form, sambhogakaya and nirmanakaya has form, so rolpa energy in nirmanakaya aspect is manifesting in our vision right now. this is the workframe explained in the "The Crystal and the Way of Light" book of ChNN. you should check, investigate more on this.

however tsel, dang and rolpa energy cannot be separated, as is explained in the same text. distictions are conceptual means for communicate the aspects, perhaps.

https://books.google.cl/books?id=C1WtWH ... ya&f=false

Marc
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Re: Rolpa energy

Post by Marc » Tue May 08, 2018 9:27 am

I remember reading (or hearing) ChNN explaining Tsal to be the source of outer visions and Rölpa to be the source of inner experiences. He would then go on in explaining that visualization practices are therefore based on this Rölpa energy etc...  Sorry, I cannot remember the exact source. May be someone here can... 

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kalden yungdrung
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Re: Rolpa energy

Post by kalden yungdrung » Tue May 08, 2018 3:01 pm

javier.espinoza.t wrote:
Tue May 08, 2018 3:14 am
rolpa is liked to form, sambhogakaya and nirmanakaya has form, so rolpa energy in nirmanakaya aspect is manifesting in our vision right now. this is the workframe explained in the "The Crystal and the Way of Light" book of ChNN. you should check, investigate more on this.

however tsel, dang and rolpa energy cannot be separated, as is explained in the same text. distictions are conceptual means for communicate the aspects, perhaps.

https://books.google.cl/books?id=C1WtWH ... ya&f=false
Tashi delek J.E.,

Thanks for your reply.

Found the book of NNR, "The Crystal", in our library.

On page 72, Dang, Rolpa and Tsal belong to the Zhi.
They belong also to the 3 Sku.

The 3 bodies are of course indivisible but are experienced / realized one after the other in general.

Therefore i thought that Rolpa would be explained separate somehow.

But i understood now, that for the visions external and internal, both are related to the Rolpa energy.
So our external visions (as well internal visions) / or how the eyes would function is according the Rolpa energy.

This Rolpa , Rigpa etc. are beyond consciousness, so difficult to explain in words.
But it can be explained, i guess so, like we are able to explain Rigpa which is divided in sub-terms.

But as Rigpa can be explained so Rolpa must be too.

But regarding Rolpa energy is not so much explained in Dzogchen text, i saw after many investigations, therefore i like to discuss it in a general sense here aboard, as far as possible of course.

Then interesting to know:
- How is Rolpa energy seen in: Shamanism/ Hindu culture / Hindu Tantra / TCM / western science.
- Do they see the heart also as the source / seat, for internal / external visions in general ?
- Like discussed earlier here aboard, it is difficult to imagine that which is empty has a seat in the heart....... But in Tantra we can.

===============

According Lopon Tenzin Namdak Rinpoche:

This is about Rolpa.

That is what we say in Tibetan, and it means fruit and cause,
Nature and Clarity are united as the Base, and visions appear from there.
These visions are all called Rolpa, or 'vision'.
KY wrote:
Can one translate Rolpa in this case with vision?
Sometimes you can explain visions as mandalas, Divinities, good things, bad things, everything, but whatever you can explain as vision goes back to the same Nature. Nature is always the same, as I said earlier. Anything which appears as a vision is like water, and good or bad, whatever, it is all just a water-form; it is no different from water. If you look at a reflection, everything is as water.

So here, reflections of Divinities, mandalas, causes, phenomenal existence, whatever appears, it all goes back to Nature. Nature itself doesn't distinguish between cause and fruit.

- The Clarity aspect is called the 'male side,' (Kuntu Zangpo)
- The Emptiness aspect is called the 'female side', (Kuntu Zangmo)

and they are both united, there is no separation, they go back to Nature itself, and this [Unification aspect] is like space. Nature, Clarity, Emptiness, unification looks like space - inseparable.

That is called Ro/pa, or the visions which all go back to the same Nature.

KY wrote:
I am looking for more explanations about Rolpa, if possible.
Gives a better understanding about the topic
Last edited by kalden yungdrung on Tue May 08, 2018 3:45 pm, edited 9 times in total.
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kalden yungdrung
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Re: Rolpa energy

Post by kalden yungdrung » Tue May 08, 2018 3:03 pm

Marc wrote:
Tue May 08, 2018 9:27 am
I remember reading (or hearing) ChNN explaining Tsal to be the source of outer visions and Rölpa to be the source of inner experiences. He would then go on in explaining that visualization practices are therefore based on this Rölpa energy etc...  Sorry, I cannot remember the exact source. May be someone here can... 
Tashi delek M,

According Lopon tenzin Namdka Rinpoche, visions (external / internal) stem from Rolpa energy.
The best meditation is no meditation

oldbob
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Re: Rolpa energy

Post by oldbob » Tue May 08, 2018 5:31 pm

javier.espinoza.t wrote:
Tue May 08, 2018 3:14 am
rolpa is liked to form, sambhogakaya and nirmanakaya has form, so rolpa energy in nirmanakaya aspect is manifesting in our vision right now. this is the workframe explained in the "The Crystal and the Way of Light" book of ChNN. you should check, investigate more on this.

however tsel, dang and rolpa energy cannot be separated, as is explained in the same text. distictions are conceptual means for communicate the aspects, perhaps.

https://books.google.cl/books?id=C1WtWH ... ya&f=false
:good:

Clear post, and true to pointing to our actual condition which does not make distinctions between tsel, dang and rolpa, which are happening, as an undifferentiated flow of energy / experience, all at once, all the time. Focusing on one aspect or another may help you to understand something better that you are experiencing. This is a way of gaining perspective on undifferentiated experience.

Then you can relax.

:heart:

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kalden yungdrung
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Re: Rolpa energy

Post by kalden yungdrung » Wed May 09, 2018 4:23 am

oldbob wrote:
Tue May 08, 2018 5:31 pm
javier.espinoza.t wrote:
Tue May 08, 2018 3:14 am
rolpa is liked to form, sambhogakaya and nirmanakaya has form, so rolpa energy in nirmanakaya aspect is manifesting in our vision right now. this is the workframe explained in the "The Crystal and the Way of Light" book of ChNN. you should check, investigate more on this.

however tsel, dang and rolpa energy cannot be separated, as is explained in the same text. distictions are conceptual means for communicate the aspects, perhaps.

https://books.google.cl/books?id=C1WtWH ... ya&f=false
:good:

Clear post, and true to pointing to our actual condition which does not make distinctions between tsel, dang and rolpa, which are happening, as an undifferentiated flow of energy / experience, all at once, all the time. Focusing on one aspect or another may help you to understand something better that you are experiencing. This is a way of gaining perspective on undifferentiated experience.

Then you can relax.

:heart:
We divide it only for the good understanding, like Rigpa, Trekchöd and Thogal
The pratice is always different there it does not run according dualisms, dividing etc. that is a fact, but explanations are facts too, like in the here and now.
But in the terms of dividing the 3 energies, Rolpa means visions of all kinds and that was the core of this thread somehow.
The best meditation is no meditation

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kalden yungdrung
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Re: Rolpa energy

Post by kalden yungdrung » Fri May 11, 2018 12:04 pm

IN ADDITION:

According Lopon Tenzin Namdak Rinpoche, Rolpa is also connected to thoughts.
Thoughts can appear as visions. but thoughts can also have sometimes sounds.

==========================


By the Bön Yongdzin Rinpoche:


Tsal and Rolpa


First of all, a thought comes, and you can check where it is coming from: Nature.

You must realize Nature. Nature has not made anything, it has not done anything to develop visions or thoughts, it does not suppon them in this way, yet they can spontaneously come from Nature.

Nature has this power, this potential, and this is sometimes called Emptiness or tsal. That is tsal.

When the thought itself appears, that is rolpa.

Sometimes we say that both the potentiality and the vision are tsal; it depends on what you are explaining. But anyhow, the thought is vision, and vision means that it is not removed from Nature as Nature itself is formed as thought. It is necessary to know that the thoughts, our own thinking- it doesn't matter whether they are good or bad thoughts -appears as visions coming from Nature. You always have to think it is similar to waves in water.
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kalden yungdrung
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Re: Rolpa energy

Post by kalden yungdrung » Fri May 11, 2018 1:42 pm

kalden yungdrung wrote:
Fri May 11, 2018 12:04 pm
IN ADDITION:

According Lopon Tenzin Namdak Rinpoche, Rolpa is also connected to thoughts.
Thoughts can appear as visions. but thoughts can also have sometimes sounds.

==========================
Rol-pa - manifestation; to manifest ( viewtopic.php?f=78&t=21652 )

By the Bön Yongdzin Rinpoche:


Tsal and Rolpa


First of all, a thought comes, and you can check where it is coming from: Nature.

You must realize Nature. Nature has not made anything, it has not done anything to develop visions or thoughts, it does not suppon them in this way, yet they can spontaneously come from Nature.

Nature has this power, this potential, and this is sometimes called Emptiness or tsal. That is tsal.

When the thought itself appears, that is rolpa.

Sometimes we say that both the potentiality and the vision are tsal; it depends on what you are explaining. But anyhow, the thought is vision, and vision means that it is not removed from Nature as Nature itself is formed as thought. It is necessary to know that the thoughts, our own thinking- it doesn't matter whether they are good or bad thoughts -appears as visions coming from Nature. You always have to think it is similar to waves in water.
The best meditation is no meditation

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