Quote by ChNNR about Dzogchen and God - where is it from?

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krodha
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Re: Quote by ChNNR about Dzogchen and God - where is it from?

Post by krodha » Wed May 16, 2018 3:43 am

Dorje Shedrub wrote:
Wed May 16, 2018 3:33 am
emaho wrote:
Tue May 15, 2018 9:48 pm
dzogchungpa wrote:
Tue May 15, 2018 12:34 am
ChNN must not have gotten the memo since, apparently, he considers Jesus to have been an enlightened being.
Neither has Chhimed Rigdzin Rinpoche. He once said during a teaching that Jesus was a high Bodhisattva and if he'd enter the room, he, CRR, would immediately step down from his throne and prostrate to Jesus.
HHDL has also called JC a bodhisattva.
They're just being kind.

Moreover, there is no evidence Jesus ever existed, and even if (i) he did exist, and (ii) his convoluted teaching that has been butchered over centuries has any merit, it still has no application in the context of the buddhadharma.

Those interested in seeing Jesus as some sort of bodhisattva in a legitimate sense are trying to reconcile cultural baggage with some sort of guilt.

But then again I feel Christianity has been a scourge in this world, and has most likely done more harm than good.

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Re: Quote by ChNNR about Dzogchen and God - where is it from?

Post by justinhudgins » Wed May 16, 2018 3:50 am

HHDL is also the de facto PR spokesperson for Tibet, for Tibetan Buddhism as well to an extent. His potential audience is massive, so I’m not sure you can necessarily take what he says as anything more than personal opinion or a comment to give an “in” to people who might otherwise feel their Christian upbringing and leanings prohibit them from connecting with the Dharma. ChNN, on the other hand, is presumably speaking to his students, a group of insiders who get the point of what he’s saying.

Also, saying JC was a bodhisattva is a pretty safe statement to make. At the end of the day, he’s dead, and as a statement it doesn’t really mean anything in particular other than he was super compassionate. But the payoff is that people eat it up and it makes you look open and liberal, so maybe there’s a bit of a positive connection made with people listening.

Just my 2 pennies.

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Re: Quote by ChNNR about Dzogchen and God - where is it from?

Post by emaho » Wed May 16, 2018 4:49 am

krodha wrote:
Wed May 16, 2018 3:43 am
They're just being kind.
:lol:

Nah, not Chhimed Rigdzin. He was brutally honest. He would not have said it if he hadn't meant it. Also, when Tibetans say such things out of courtesy they make a meaningless blah blah statement like "x is a good spiritual teacher" but they don't say things like "I'd prostrate to him." Besides, a friend of mine has spent a lot of time travelling with CRR; she told me that on the way to the Khordong Gompa in Poland the road passes by a small Lady Chapel, and every time they came to that Chapel he told the driver to stop and sent somebody out to offer a khata. He certainly didn't do that to put on a show. There just wasn't anybody around to watch.

PS: not sure, if Lady Chapel is the right word, I mean something like this:

(Warning to all those who are seriously allergic to Christianity: the following link leads to a religious image, viewer discretion is advised)
https://www.regioport-siegerland.de/ima ... elle/1.jpg.
"I struggled with some demons, They were middle class and tame..." L. Cohen

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Re: Quote by ChNNR about Dzogchen and God - where is it from?

Post by amanitamusc » Wed May 16, 2018 5:13 am

Its ok, many people have trouble dropping xstianity completely.Lucky for me it was the Jehovah's Witness
Cult so it was pretty easy.
Your man L Cohen could never really let it go.

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Re: Quote by ChNNR about Dzogchen and God - where is it from?

Post by emaho » Wed May 16, 2018 5:36 am

Yeah, nevermind. A lot of people are suffering from serious allergies. I know what that's like, I'm allergic to pollen and dust. :P
"I struggled with some demons, They were middle class and tame..." L. Cohen

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Re: Quote by ChNNR about Dzogchen and God - where is it from?

Post by amanitamusc » Wed May 16, 2018 6:24 am

emaho wrote:
Wed May 16, 2018 5:36 am
Yeah, nevermind. A lot of people are suffering from serious allergies. I know what that's like, I'm allergic to pollen and dust. :P
You should try mormon tea,it works for for many an allergy. :spy:

krodha
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Re: Quote by ChNNR about Dzogchen and God - where is it from?

Post by krodha » Wed May 16, 2018 6:43 am

emaho wrote:
Wed May 16, 2018 5:36 am
Yeah, nevermind. A lot of people are suffering from serious allergies. I know what that's like, I'm allergic to pollen and dust.
As far as I can tell, Christians, Catholics, etc., worship some sort of asura, and they are welcome to do so, but look at the massive scale of bloodshed that has occurred as a result.

What redeeming aspects does Christianity have? Instilling a moral compass? If you need a god to threaten you with judgement and eternal damnation in order to be a decent human being, then you are not a decent human being.

If you are truly a decent human being then you are that way with or without Christianity, and in that case what does Christianity really offer? A sense of community? You can find that in any subculture.

Christians have no possibility to be liberated. They cling to a system of belief in this life, and die as afflicted sentient beings, to be reborn again.

I do not understand why people lend Christianity so much legitimacy, simply because massive amounts of people have adopted it and choose to adhere to its teachings.

But to each their own.

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Re: Quote by ChNNR about Dzogchen and God - where is it from?

Post by Vasana » Wed May 16, 2018 8:42 am

krodha wrote:
Wed May 16, 2018 6:43 am
emaho wrote:
Wed May 16, 2018 5:36 am
Yeah, nevermind. A lot of people are suffering from serious allergies. I know what that's like, I'm allergic to pollen and dust.
What redeeming aspects does Christianity have? Instilling a moral compass? If you need a god to threaten you with judgement and eternal damnation in order to be a decent human being, then you are not a decent human being
I think that's a slightly simplified view of morality in Christianity. Also fear of lower realms in Buddha dharma is a similar motivating factor for many Buddhists. As far as I can see, it's redeeming aspects viewed through the lense of the Buddha dharma are that the Christian path results in rebirth in a particular heaven or in the human realm where there is a greater chance of meeting the dharma. Everything is relative so it must also have some of its own pros and cons in relation to other ways of living.
krodha wrote:
Wed May 16, 2018 6:43 am
If you are truly a decent human being then you are that way with or without Christianity, and in that case what does Christianity really offer? A sense of community? You can't find that in any subculture.
What is a truly decent human being? Beings and their propesnsities are context dependent. If you are born in a ghetto or difficult environment then surely it's better for the kids to learn morality and find meaning and community in their nearest available faith rather than from the streets. How beings arrive at their ethical and moral compass is not as pertinent as the fact that they now have sown those seeds of morality in their continuums. I know many unethical atheists that engage in nonvirtue but I also know a few ethical Christians who practice various virtues. Who's in a more fortunate position?
krodha wrote:
Wed May 16, 2018 6:43 am
Christians have no possibility to be liberated. They cling to a system of belief in this life, and die as afflicted sentient beings, to be reborn again.
It is said that Bodhisattvas and Buddhas can appear in the heaven realms so I think they have a much greater possibility of meeting the path of liberation than those weighed down by heavier karma. Also, many Buddhists die afflicted beings to be reborn again too.
krodha wrote:
Wed May 16, 2018 6:43 am
I do not understand why people lend Christianity so much legitimacy, simply because massive amounts of people have adopted it and choose to adhere to its teachings.

But to each their own.
'simply because' seems like a simplification of a complex set of phenomenon and circumstances. I think it's more interesting to notice the skilfull means of various public figure head Buddhists when dealing with the sensitive topic of other faiths. Maybe the Dalai Lama is teaching us something about skilfull means in his open arms approach to other faiths.

And that's another point too- building interfaith solidarity and respect will probably help the world and it's inhabitants much sooner than philosophical and theological debate. Christians and Muslims are a majority in this world and that requires skilfull means in the interpersonal and interfaith department if we are to reduce the causes of suffering in this world and help establish auspicious conditions.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Upaya
'When alone, watch your mind. When with others, watch your speech'- Old Kadampa saying.

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Re: Quote by ChNNR about Dzogchen and God - where is it from?

Post by krodha » Wed May 16, 2018 9:20 am

Vasana wrote:
Wed May 16, 2018 8:42 am
As far as I can see, it's redeeming aspects viewed through the lense of the Buddha dharma are that the Christian path results in rebirth in a particular heaven or in the human realm where there is a greater chance of meeting the dharma.
Christianity is the cause of such a rebirth? This is the first I've heard of such a notion.
Vasana wrote:
Wed May 16, 2018 8:42 am
What is a truly decent human being? Beings and their propesnsities are context dependent. If you are born in a ghetto or difficult environment then surely it's better for the kids to learn morality and find meaning and community in their nearest available faith rather than from the streets. How beings arrive at their ethical and moral compass is not as pertinent as the fact that they now have sown those seeds. I know many unethical atheists that engage in nonvirtue but I also know a few ethical Christians who practice various virtues. Who's in a more fortunate position?
And I know many ethical atheists who engage in virtue and also unethical Christians who engage in non-virtue.
Vasana wrote:
Wed May 16, 2018 8:42 am
It is said that Bodhisattvas and Buddhas can appear in the heaven realms so I think they have a much greater possibility of meeting the path of liberation than those weighed down by heavier karma. Also, many Buddhists die afflicted beings to be reborn again too.
I'm still unsure where you are getting the idea that Christians are bound for any sort of higher rebirth as a result of their relationship with their faith. This does not make sense.
Vasana wrote:
Wed May 16, 2018 8:42 am
'simply because' seems like a simplification of a complex set of phenomenon and circumstances. I think it's more interesting to notice the skilfull means of various Buddhists when dealing with the sensitive topic of other faiths. Maybe the Dalai Lama is teaching us something about skilfull means in his open arms approach to other faiths.
My son was raised without religion and exhibits healthy skepticism towards systems of belief, yet is kind and compassionate because he was shown that is the way to be, without religion.

I also have family members who are Christian. My daughter attends a Christian elementary school. I'm courteous and kind to any Christian I interact with and respect their relationship with their religion. My outward display does not reflect my personal feelings whatsoever, and if there are skillful means involved, that outward tolerance, patience and kindness is surely it. That is all that those such as the Dalai Lama are intending to communicate.

Inwardly, I really don't care for their religion and have many family members who feel the same way.
Vasana wrote:
Wed May 16, 2018 8:42 am
And that's another point too- building interfaith solidarity and respect will probably help the world and it's inhabitants sooner than philosophical and theological debate.
Perhaps.

Yet it is also evident that Judeo-Christian values and tenets are at the root of the anthropocentric attitude that many human beings approach both other species and our planet with, to their detriment.

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Re: Quote by ChNNR about Dzogchen and God - where is it from?

Post by Vasana » Wed May 16, 2018 11:52 am

krodha wrote:
Wed May 16, 2018 9:20 am
Christianity is the cause of such a rebirth? This is the first I've heard of such a notion.
Well the goal of exoteric Christianity seems to be securing your place in heaven. And it is said in the dharma that the 10 virtues result in rebirth in the higher realms. If you accept Buddhist heavens then it's not too much of a stretch to imagine other heaven realms. But then maybe not so much if you think it's an asura loka.
krodha wrote:
Wed May 16, 2018 9:20 am
Vasana wrote:
Wed May 16, 2018 8:42 am
What is a truly decent human being? Beings and their propesnsities are context dependent. If you are born in a ghetto or difficult environment then surely it's better for the kids to learn morality and find meaning and community in their nearest available faith rather than from the streets. How beings arrive at their ethical and moral compass is not as pertinent as the fact that they now have sown those seeds. I know many unethical atheists that engage in nonvirtue but I also know a few ethical Christians who practice various virtues. Who's in a more fortunate position?

And I know many ethical atheists who engage in virtue and also unethical Christians who engage in non-virtue.
Sure. So its not so black and white.
krodha wrote:
Wed May 16, 2018 9:20 am
I'm still unsure where you are getting the idea that Christians are bound for any sort of higher rebirth as a result of their relationship with their faith. This does not make sense.
Faith as it said in Christianity results in heaven but also the virtues and their results as spoken in the dharma. Its a religion designed to avoid the hells so on that merit alone I think it has its own relative value.

krodha wrote:
Wed May 16, 2018 9:20 am

My son was raised without religion and exhibits healthy skepticism towards systems of belief, yet is kind and compassionate because he was shown that is the way to be, without religion.
Sure. I believe secular ethics are great and society as a whole should mkve towards emphasising them but as i said earlier, it's always circumstantial. Where beings are born and who and what they have around them. Some people will not just stumble upon secular ethics and have the fortune of being raised well but will meet it through their nearest religions. The accumulation of virtuous seeds are in many ways more important in the long run.
krodha wrote:
Wed May 16, 2018 9:20 am
My outward display does not reflect my personal feelings whatsoever, and if there are skillful means involved, that outward tolerance, patience and kindness is surely it. That is all that those such as the Dalai Lama are intending to communicate.

Inwardly, I really don't care for their religion and have many family members who feel the same way.
I imagine there are more skillfull means at play but that's just my hunch.
krodha wrote:
Wed May 16, 2018 9:20 am
Vasana wrote:
Wed May 16, 2018 8:42 am
And that's another point too- building interfaith solidarity and respect will probably help the world and it's inhabitants sooner than philosophical and theological debate.
Perhaps.

Yet it is also evident that Judeo-Christian values and tenets are at the root of the anthropocentric attitude that many human beings approach both other species and our planet with, to their detriment.
We'll that's pretty loaded. Citation needed etc.
I would argue capitalism has more of an influence on how humans approach other species and the planet but that's another story.

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Re: Quote by ChNNR about Dzogchen and God - where is it from?

Post by emaho » Wed May 16, 2018 3:02 pm

krodha wrote:
Wed May 16, 2018 6:43 am
... but look at the massive scale of bloodshed that has occurred as a result.
Hmm, ja, of course there have been horrible things done in the name of Christian Churches, but Tibetan history isn't all lovey-dovey either, and you wouldn't stop being a Buddhist because of what's happening now in Burma.

Frankly I don't think it works this way around. The way it works is rather that the powers that be use whatever ideology, religion or philosophy the populace believes in and twist and turn it so they can abuse it for their own needs. Just look at the ideas of Marx and what that has been turned into in history. The fact that Marx was atheist was no protection against that.

P.S.: just look at the Chinese "cultural revolution" and the atrocities commited in order to "free" people from religion, including the still ongoing genocide on Tibetans.
"I struggled with some demons, They were middle class and tame..." L. Cohen

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Re: Quote by ChNNR about Dzogchen and God - where is it from?

Post by Malcolm » Wed May 16, 2018 3:23 pm

emaho wrote:
Wed May 16, 2018 3:02 pm
krodha wrote:
Wed May 16, 2018 6:43 am
... but look at the massive scale of bloodshed that has occurred as a result.
Hmm, ja, of course there have been horrible things done in the name of Christian Churches, but Tibetan history isn't all lovey-dovey either, and you wouldn't stop being a Buddhist because of what's happening now in Burma.

Frankly I don't think it works this way around. The way it works is rather that the powers that be use whatever ideology, religion or philosophy the populace believes in and twist and turn it so they can abuse it for their own needs. Just look at the ideas of Marx and what that has been turned into in history. The fact that Marx was atheist was no protection against that.

P.S.: just look at the Chinese "cultural revolution" and the atrocities commited in order to "free" people from religion, including the still ongoing genocide on Tibetans.
This is all completely beside the point. ChNN certainly does not think Christianity, etc., are liberative traditions —— if he did, it would be clear in the Game of Liberation. In fact, in that game, the only way "out" is through Buddhist paths. Arguing over whether or not Jesus was a bodhisattva is fruitless because even if he was, his teachings do not lead to liberation.
Buddhahood in This Life
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


[A]nything at all that is well spoken is the word of the Buddha.

-- Ārya-adhyāśaya-sañcodana-nāma-mahāyāna-sūtra

The different sūtras in accord with the emptiness
taught by the Sugata are definitive in meaning;
One can understand that all of those Dharmas in
which a sentient being, individual, or person are taught are provisional in meaning.

-- Samadhirāja Sūtra

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Re: Quote by ChNNR about Dzogchen and God - where is it from?

Post by Ogyen » Wed May 16, 2018 3:52 pm

Vasana wrote:
Wed May 16, 2018 11:52 am
Faith as it said in Christianity results in heaven but also the virtues and their results as spoken in the dharma. Its a religion designed to avoid the hells so on that merit alone I think it has its own relative value.
Wrong View whether it be Buddhist, Christian, Muslim, voodoo etc produces wrong view, wrong action, more karma, and rebirth. Therefore more dependence to the 12 nidanas.

Christian heavens are a fantasy that not even Christians agree upon, with little explanation of causality because it is based on creator magic and not karma-i.e. cause effect... and many notions acted upon in their human life are still based in wrong view and therefore will lead many a Christian to the hells even if they aspire to their wrong-view-based concept of heaven.

Such is the nature of ignorance and karma.

The Christian hell and heaven more or less have the same value as liberation thru reading chicken guts in Santeria. Supposedly that is for the benefit of people too. But it is all arising out of affliction... So I think we're mixing apples and oranges in terminologies...
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Re: Quote by ChNNR about Dzogchen and God - where is it from?

Post by Vasana » Wed May 16, 2018 4:13 pm

Ogyen wrote:
Wed May 16, 2018 3:52 pm
Vasana wrote:
Wed May 16, 2018 11:52 am
Faith as it said in Christianity results in heaven but also the virtues and their results as spoken in the dharma. Its a religion designed to avoid the hells so on that merit alone I think it has its own relative value.
Wrong View whether it be Buddhist, Christian, Muslim, voodoo etc produces wrong view, wrong action, more karma, and rebirth. Therefore more dependence to the 12 nidanas.

Christian heavens are a fantasy that not even Christians agree upon, with little explanation of causality because it is based on creator magic and not karma-i.e. cause effect... and many notions acted upon in their human life are still based in wrong view and therefore will lead many a Christian to the hells even if they aspire to their wrong-view-based concept of heaven.

[...]
Yet most religions share emphasis on virtue. Buddhism describes the results of virtue as rebirth in higher realms. That was my line of reasoning.

As for Christian heaven being a fantasy...how do you know? Seems just as much of a feasable possibility as any other religions' proposed heaven or upper realms. The same goes for any given religions pantheon of unseen beings. Cosmological views of upper and lower realms have existed for a long long time across different cultures. Seems odd to think that only the Buddhist and Hindu conception of the upper and lower realms are definitive and every conception of heaven prior or concurrent to those are rooted in fantasy. The map is not the territory but I find it interesting that so many different religions and world views have fundamental similarities in their conception of upper and lower realms.

Imo, there's room for multiple heaven realms based on the various belief systems. Do I believe these are liberation from samsara? No. Do I believe rebirth in these realms is possible? Yes.
'When alone, watch your mind. When with others, watch your speech'- Old Kadampa saying.

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Re: Quote by ChNNR about Dzogchen and God - where is it from?

Post by Aryjna » Wed May 16, 2018 4:27 pm

Vasana wrote:
Wed May 16, 2018 4:13 pm
Ogyen wrote:
Wed May 16, 2018 3:52 pm
Vasana wrote:
Wed May 16, 2018 11:52 am
Faith as it said in Christianity results in heaven but also the virtues and their results as spoken in the dharma. Its a religion designed to avoid the hells so on that merit alone I think it has its own relative value.
Wrong View whether it be Buddhist, Christian, Muslim, voodoo etc produces wrong view, wrong action, more karma, and rebirth. Therefore more dependence to the 12 nidanas.

Christian heavens are a fantasy that not even Christians agree upon, with little explanation of causality because it is based on creator magic and not karma-i.e. cause effect... and many notions acted upon in their human life are still based in wrong view and therefore will lead many a Christian to the hells even if they aspire to their wrong-view-based concept of heaven.

[...]
Yet most religions share emphasis on virtue. Buddhism establishes the results of virtue as rebirth in higher realms. That was my line of reasoning.

As for Buddhist heaven being a fantasy...how do you know? Seems just as much of a feasable possibility as any other religions' proposed heaven. As for any given religions pantheon of unseen beings. Cosmological views of upper and lower realms have existed for a long long time across different cultures. Seems odd to think that only the Buddhist and Hindu conception of the upper and lower realms are definitive and every conception of heaven prior or concurrent to those are rooted in fantasy. The map is not the territory but I find it interesting that so many different religions and world views have similarities in their conception of upper and lower realms.

Imo, there's room for multiple heaven realms based on various belief systems. Do I believe these are liberation from samsara? No. Do I believe rebirth in these realms is possible? Yes.
The question is what do Christians mean by 'virtue'. For many Christians, virtue means accepting Christ, while being homophobic and nationalistic. Do they cultivate compassion deliberately? If yes, is it unconditional? If not, then how can they meet a god that supposedly has unconditional compassion after death? Then again, doesn't look like the Christian god's compassion is anywhere near unconditional based on the Bible, but this could be debated.

The existence of many different heavens is not the problem, the problem is whether they can get there based on their practices. The Christian clergy in many countries is known for its intolerance and blind attachment to their dogma. Of course there may be exceptions, but these are exceptions, not the rule. A sutra that I think directly applies here is Tevijja Sutta, especially the part examining the behaviour of brahmins in comparison to the heaven to which they aspire to get to after death:

Then you say, too, Vāseṭṭha, that
those brahmins learned in the Three Vedas have hate in their hearts but Brahmā does not;
those brahmins have ill will in their hearts but Brahmā has not;
those brahmins have impure hearts but Brahmā does not;
those brahmins lack self-mastery but Brahmā does not.
35.2 Is there anything common or alike—these brahmins of the Three Vedas who have wives, and
Brahmā who does not?”
“Certainly not, master Gotama.”

Excellent, Vāseṭṭha. Those brahmins learned in the Three Vedas lack self-mastery—and yet they
hope that after death, they would attain companionship with Brahmā who has self-mastery—indeed, this
is not possible.130
36.2 As such, Vāseṭṭha, those brahmins learned in the Three Vedas, having sat down (on the river
bank) would sink down (in the mire). And so sinking, they would only come to despair, wondering how
to cross over (the river) without getting wet.131
36.3 Therefore, these Three Vedas are called the three knowledges that are a desert, the three
knowledges that are a jungle, the three knowledges that are a disaster!”

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Re: Quote by ChNNR about Dzogchen and God - where is it from?

Post by Aryjna » Wed May 16, 2018 4:34 pm

I find this psalm particularly funny http://www.medievalist.net/psalmstxt/ps135.htm

15 And overthrew Pharao and his host in the Red Sea: for his mercy endureth for ever.
16 Who led his people through the desert: for his mercy endureth for ever.
17 Who smote great kings: for his mercy endureth for ever.
18 And slew strong kings: for his mercy endureth for ever.
19 Sehon king of the Amorrhites: for his mercy endureth for ever.
20 And Og king of Basan: for his mercy endureth for ever.
21 And he gave their land for an inheritance: for his mercy endureth for ever.
22 For an inheritance to his servant Israel: for his mercy endureth for ever.

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Re: Quote by ChNNR about Dzogchen and God - where is it from?

Post by dzogchungpa » Wed May 16, 2018 4:35 pm

emaho wrote:
Wed May 16, 2018 4:49 am
krodha wrote:
Wed May 16, 2018 3:43 am
They're just being kind.
:lol:

Nah, not Chhimed Rigdzin. He was brutally honest. He would not have said it if he hadn't meant it. Also, when Tibetans say such things out of courtesy they make a meaningless blah blah statement like "x is a good spiritual teacher" but they don't say things like "I'd prostrate to him." Besides, a friend of mine has spent a lot of time travelling with CRR; she told me that on the way to the Khordong Gompa in Poland the road passes by a small Lady Chapel, and every time they came to that Chapel he told the driver to stop and sent somebody out to offer a khata. He certainly didn't do that to put on a show. There just wasn't anybody around to watch.

PS: not sure, if Lady Chapel is the right word, I mean something like this:

(Warning to all those who are seriously allergic to Christianity: the following link leads to a religious image, viewer discretion is advised)
https://www.regioport-siegerland.de/ima ... elle/1.jpg.

smh

In all seriousness, one has to wonder why CRR gave a f*ck about any of that. The only thing I can come up with is that maybe ChNN got to him with that Green Tara-Madonna thing.



Malcolm wrote:
Wed May 16, 2018 3:23 pm
ChNN certainly does not think Christianity, etc., are liberative traditions —— if he did, it would be clear in the Game of Liberation. In fact, in that game, the only way "out" is through Buddhist paths.

Does the game say anything about Christianity being, like, a scourge in this world or whatever?
There is not only nothingness because there is always, and always can manifest. - Thinley Norbu Rinpoche

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Re: Quote by ChNNR about Dzogchen and God - where is it from?

Post by treehuggingoctopus » Wed May 16, 2018 4:52 pm

emaho wrote:
Wed May 16, 2018 4:49 am
Nah, not Chhimed Rigdzin. He was brutally honest. He would not have said it if he hadn't meant it. Also, when Tibetans say such things out of courtesy they make a meaningless blah blah statement like "x is a good spiritual teacher" but they don't say things like "I'd prostrate to him." Besides, a friend of mine has spent a lot of time travelling with CRR; she told me that on the way to the Khordong Gompa in Poland the road passes by a small Lady Chapel, and every time they came to that Chapel he told the driver to stop and sent somebody out to offer a khata. He certainly didn't do that to put on a show. There just wasn't anybody around to watch.
Thank you for the story. I will try to find the shrine next time I am in Darnkow.

Btw, Garchen Rinpoche shares ChNN's opinion on Jesus and Mary, too. As does Tenzin Wangyal Rinpoche. And at least one of TUR's sons. And, at least when it comes to Mary, Lopon Ogyan Tanzin Rinpoche. I could go on, but of course there is no point. Those who reject these equivalencies/similarities/affinities will continue rejecting them, those who are OK with them will obviously be still OK with them.
. . . there they saw a rock! But it wasn't a rock . . .

emaho
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Re: Quote by ChNNR about Dzogchen and God - where is it from?

Post by emaho » Wed May 16, 2018 5:00 pm

treehuggingoctopus wrote:
Wed May 16, 2018 4:52 pm
Btw, Garchen Rinpoche shares ChNN's opinion on Jesus and Mary, too. As does Tenzin Wangyal Rinpoche. And at least one of TUR's sons. And, at least when it comes to Mary, Lopon Ogyan Tanzin Rinpoche. I could go on, but of course there is no point. Those who reject these equivalencies/similarities/affinities will continue rejecting them, those who are OK with them will obviously be still OK with them.
I agree.

Let's add Chagdud Tulku Rinpoche to the list, in his book "Life in Relation to Death" he implies that it's legitimate to see Jesus as a pefect wisdom being before whom you can confess your faults and whom you can visualize on top of the crown of your head when you're dying. But of course, this is going to be ridiculed, too.
"I struggled with some demons, They were middle class and tame..." L. Cohen

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treehuggingoctopus
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Re: Quote by ChNNR about Dzogchen and God - where is it from?

Post by treehuggingoctopus » Wed May 16, 2018 5:11 pm

emaho wrote:
Wed May 16, 2018 5:00 pm
treehuggingoctopus wrote:
Wed May 16, 2018 4:52 pm
Btw, Garchen Rinpoche shares ChNN's opinion on Jesus and Mary, too. As does Tenzin Wangyal Rinpoche. And at least one of TUR's sons. And, at least when it comes to Mary, Lopon Ogyan Tanzin Rinpoche. I could go on, but of course there is no point. Those who reject these equivalencies/similarities/affinities will continue rejecting them, those who are OK with them will obviously be still OK with them.
I agree.

Let's add Chagdud Tulku Rinpoche to the list, in his book "Life in Relation to Death" he implies that it's legitimate to see Jesus as a pefect wisdom being before whom you can confess your faults and whom you can visualize on top of the crown of your head when you're dying. But of course, this is going to be ridiculed, too.
Chagdud too? Heretics. Horrible heretics, all of them.
. . . there they saw a rock! But it wasn't a rock . . .

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