Trekchod/pointing out instructions

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dzogchungpa
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Re: Trekchod/pointing out instructions

Post by dzogchungpa » Fri May 25, 2018 1:29 am

Crazywisdom wrote:
Thu May 24, 2018 11:05 am
Direct introduction can put you into contact with your inner lights. This is a special feature and it makes everything less wordy and speculative. Yogis can But don’t always get involved with a lot of philosophy. One can follow the hints of some teachers that all of that is unnecessary if you can remain in that state which is being introduced and by focusing on guru yoga.

I’ve noticed folks like to design their own path. They have an idea of what they like to know and setup their prescription before going to the doctor. In this case, you’ve setup selflessness and trekchod. You want that. But why? How do you know you didn’t just limit your possibilities? The result is an open mind. And you need an open mind for that. The problem is ones mind is like an old dried up piece of leather. It has to be worked into a malleable state. For this reason, one may get some upfront razzle dazzle and miss it entirely. In that case, one will discover ones state accumulating many practices, for most some preliminary methods will have to be addressed.

:twothumbsup:
There is not only nothingness because there is always, and always can manifest. - Thinley Norbu Rinpoche

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javier.espinoza.t
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Re: Trekchod/pointing out instructions

Post by javier.espinoza.t » Sun May 27, 2018 1:21 am

Hamza wrote:
Tue May 15, 2018 10:17 pm
Hello, I've been meditating for the past several years (mostly focusing on the breath) and ever since I first began my practice I was told that the self is an illusion and that all forms of ego are just constructs of thoughts, and I've understood this completely in a conceptual way but I've never directly experienced this pure, self-less consciousness by myself.

I've tried several times to follow written and pre-recorded instructions on this "pointing out" but so far have failed to glimpse the selflessness of consciousness and was told that this can only be done if I receive instructions from a qualified person directly. However, I'm quite poor and can't afford to go to Nepal or other countries and meet Tibetan Lamas who could give me these instructions and I don't know where else to get these instructions.

I humbly request any readers of this post who've experienced the selflessness of consciousness directly and who can experience this state at will, to give me these instructions face-to-face, perhaps through an online video chat service like Skype and I will be immensely grateful for this.

If you know any other way I can cut through the illusion of the self directly, kindly let me know as well.
the kind of teacher you are looking for is called Vidyadhara, not just a qualified teacher who just like both, you and me, do grope in ignorance. This kind of being, a Vidyadhara, is rare to find, and if you find this kind of being you must be open, otherwise you will become a devotee instead of another Vidyadhara. For being a devotee you don't need to meet a Vidyadhara, you can have and ideal and that is enough.

"the knowledge", let's call it that way, cannot be uncovered at self-will, that's why we need a Vidyadhara, who knows how to unveil it according to our particular obscurations.

However, "the knowledge", which is not conceptual (is not like 1+1=2), also can become unveiled by chance (like what happened to Buddha when he even renounced, in the end, his search of a thruth), in a meditation session or at work, etc., if we are open.

What means to be open? my teacher says "be present", but not in a conceptual way, not being present in concepts, not holding "a paradigma of how things are or not are", but just letting things be as they are not matter what. So then, if you are living: you are living, if you are frak: you are frak, if you are not doing anything: you are not doing anything, if you are in lotus positon under a boddhi three, etc. and there is no interference between the "you" experiencing whatever "you" are experiencing. In other words your mind (that noisy voices, the images, the sounds, memories, smells, imagination, the wish for buddhahood, your wish for liberate all sentient beings, your idea of guru, etc) is not interfering. So, what happens is that you find nothing, yep, just nothing; there wasn't anything.

No importance, no sorrow, no pain, no suffering, no filty pleasure, nothing definitive, etc., then your mind starts to move but now it also starts to glow as it still does not interfere in anything because you already know there is not anthing at all; so your mind doesnt veil this knowledge, even if there is a tension like anger, the fear of loosing the knowledge, or a desire like of liberating beings, etc. there is no problem at all.

Of course then you leave certain things behind and discover precious things, like what your teacher meant, why boddhicitta, etc.

ok. maybe i ventured too much, but don't venture to say i'm teaching. because i'm not. i have nothing to do with tregchod teachings. i just shared what i have experienced "from the trenches", i'm dealing with problems like everybody, not flying. Everyone can have experience.

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Re: Trekchod/pointing out instructions

Post by Norwegian » Sun May 27, 2018 2:05 am

javier.espinoza.t wrote:the kind of teacher you are looking for is called Vidyadhara, not just a qualified teacher who just like both, you and me, do grope in ignorance.
This is a very strange sentence. Because while it's of course great to have an actual Vidyadhara as teacher, you also say "qualified teacher", which in English is a term that means that this kind of teacher you're referring to, is actually qualified (in this context, to teach Dzogchen), and that is the most important thing anyways, that the teacher is qualified, and not unqualified.

Then you say that the qualified teacher is just like you and me, groping in ignorance. That doesn't quite correspond. Such a teacher would be unqualified.

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javier.espinoza.t
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Re: Trekchod/pointing out instructions

Post by javier.espinoza.t » Sun May 27, 2018 4:16 am

Norwegian wrote:
Sun May 27, 2018 2:05 am
javier.espinoza.t wrote:the kind of teacher you are looking for is called Vidyadhara, not just a qualified teacher who just like both, you and me, do grope in ignorance.
This is a very strange sentence. Because while it's of course great to have an actual Vidyadhara as teacher, you also say "qualified teacher", which in English is a term that means that this kind of teacher you're referring to, is actually qualified (in this context, to teach Dzogchen), and that is the most important thing anyways, that the teacher is qualified, and not unqualified.

Then you say that the qualified teacher is just like you and me, groping in ignorance. That doesn't quite correspond. Such a teacher would be unqualified.
Qualifications comes outside. One can be qualified in all dzogchen teachings, but no posses the dzogchen knowledge at all.

For example, a person can read the dorsem namkha'che a million times, memorize it, write it, copy it, do philosophy about it, comment it, publish a book under a title, etc., vey qualified, famous, a tulku, a rinpoche, from that and that lineage, but not understand anything at all.

The pointed knowledge comes from Vidyadharas, not from a number of books readed or a kenpo, geshe title, etc.

Among us humans an last ¿Who qualifies a Vidyadhara? You only know when you become aware, not before. Even a person who doesn't know how to read or write can be the very best dzogchen teacher, not holding titles, qualificationa, etc.

I'm remembering Changchub Dorje and his student Namkhai Norbu. That make a graphic example.

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Re: Trekchod/pointing out instructions

Post by Norwegian » Sun May 27, 2018 4:39 am

javier.espinoza.t wrote:
Sun May 27, 2018 4:16 am
Norwegian wrote:
Sun May 27, 2018 2:05 am
javier.espinoza.t wrote:the kind of teacher you are looking for is called Vidyadhara, not just a qualified teacher who just like both, you and me, do grope in ignorance.
This is a very strange sentence. Because while it's of course great to have an actual Vidyadhara as teacher, you also say "qualified teacher", which in English is a term that means that this kind of teacher you're referring to, is actually qualified (in this context, to teach Dzogchen), and that is the most important thing anyways, that the teacher is qualified, and not unqualified.

Then you say that the qualified teacher is just like you and me, groping in ignorance. That doesn't quite correspond. Such a teacher would be unqualified.
Qualifications comes outside. One can be qualified in all dzogchen teachings, but no posses the dzogchen knowledge at all.

For example, a person can read the dorsem namkha'che a million times, memorize it, write it, copy it, do philosophy about it, comment it, publish a book under a title, etc., vey qualified, famous, a tulku, a rinpoche, from that and that lineage, but not understand anything at all.

The pointed knowledge comes from Vidyadharas, not from a number of books readed or a kenpo, geshe title, etc.

Among us humans an last ¿Who qualifies a Vidyadhara? You only know when you become aware, not before. Even a person who doesn't know how to read or write can be the very best dzogchen teacher, not holding titles, qualificationa, etc.

I'm remembering Changchub Dorje and his student Namkhai Norbu. That make a graphic example.
OK you seemingly don't understand, which I guess is due to problems of language.

When we say "qualified Dzogchen teacher", it means someone who lives in and has that knowledge of Dzogchen, who is authorized to give direct introduction, who can give teachings on Dzogchen, who can give transmission of Dzogchen. So when we say "qualified Dzogchen teacher" it means someone like Chogyal Namkhai Norbu, Loppon Tendzin Namdak, HH Dudjom Rinpoche, Chatral Rinpoche, Kunzang Dechen Lingpa, etc.

It does not mean "A teacher who got a diploma somewhere and has no understanding of Dzogchen", or "Someone who read a book once". Nor does it mean "That guy on the Internet".

So, when we say "qualified Dzogchen teacher", it means someone who is qualified (due to their actual knowledge of Dzogchen, their capacity of Dzogchen) to teach Dzogchen in that context alone.

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javier.espinoza.t
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Re: Trekchod/pointing out instructions

Post by javier.espinoza.t » Sun May 27, 2018 12:15 pm

Norwegian wrote:
Sun May 27, 2018 4:39 am
javier.espinoza.t wrote:
Sun May 27, 2018 4:16 am
Norwegian wrote:
Sun May 27, 2018 2:05 am

This is a very strange sentence. Because while it's of course great to have an actual Vidyadhara as teacher, you also say "qualified teacher", which in English is a term that means that this kind of teacher you're referring to, is actually qualified (in this context, to teach Dzogchen), and that is the most important thing anyways, that the teacher is qualified, and not unqualified.

Then you say that the qualified teacher is just like you and me, groping in ignorance. That doesn't quite correspond. Such a teacher would be unqualified.
Qualifications comes outside. One can be qualified in all dzogchen teachings, but no posses the dzogchen knowledge at all.

For example, a person can read the dorsem namkha'che a million times, memorize it, write it, copy it, do philosophy about it, comment it, publish a book under a title, etc., vey qualified, famous, a tulku, a rinpoche, from that and that lineage, but not understand anything at all.

The pointed knowledge comes from Vidyadharas, not from a number of books readed or a kenpo, geshe title, etc.

Among us humans an last ¿Who qualifies a Vidyadhara? You only know when you become aware, not before. Even a person who doesn't know how to read or write can be the very best dzogchen teacher, not holding titles, qualificationa, etc.

I'm remembering Changchub Dorje and his student Namkhai Norbu. That make a graphic example.
OK you seemingly don't understand, which I guess is due to problems of language.

When we say "qualified Dzogchen teacher", it means someone who lives in and has that knowledge of Dzogchen, who is authorized to give direct introduction, who can give teachings on Dzogchen, who can give transmission of Dzogchen. So when we say "qualified Dzogchen teacher" it means someone like Chogyal Namkhai Norbu, Loppon Tendzin Namdak, HH Dudjom Rinpoche, Chatral Rinpoche, Kunzang Dechen Lingpa, etc.

It does not mean "A teacher who got a diploma somewhere and has no understanding of Dzogchen", or "Someone who read a book once". Nor does it mean "That guy on the Internet".

So, when we say "qualified Dzogchen teacher", it means someone who is qualified (due to their actual knowledge of Dzogchen, their capacity of Dzogchen) to teach Dzogchen in that context alone.
I understand, but im talking of the precise difference you are talking. I havent said dzogchen teacher until then, nor even said dzogchen, nor tibetan terms because i didn't want to mean that "the knowledge" belongs to tibetans only or comes from them, because is not like that. This in not a big problem really, is just different terms.

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kalden yungdrung
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Re: Trekchod/pointing out instructions

Post by kalden yungdrung » Fri Jun 08, 2018 11:43 am

Hamza wrote:
Tue May 15, 2018 10:17 pm
Hello, I've been meditating for the past several years (mostly focusing on the breath) and ever since I first began my practice I was told that the self is an illusion and that all forms of ego are just constructs of thoughts, and I've understood this completely in a conceptual way but I've never directly experienced this pure, self-less consciousness by myself.

I've tried several times to follow written and pre-recorded instructions on this "pointing out" but so far have failed to glimpse the selflessness of consciousness and was told that this can only be done if I receive instructions from a qualified person directly. However, I'm quite poor and can't afford to go to Nepal or other countries and meet Tibetan Lamas who could give me these instructions and I don't know where else to get these instructions.

I humbly request any readers of this post who've experienced the selflessness of consciousness directly and who can experience this state at will, to give me these instructions face-to-face, perhaps through an online video chat service like Skype and I will be immensely grateful for this.

If you know any other way I can cut through the illusion of the self directly, kindly let me know as well.
Tashi delek H,

Here you can learn everything about Trekchöd , the Natural State which has a State of NOT following thoughts.
It is teached in the unbroken Bön Dzogchen Cycle of Teachings the Zhang Zhung Nyen Gyud, i guess the oldest Dzogchen Teachings known on this planet.

Trekchöd is here teached as indivisible connected with Thögal . Both belong to the experience of one´s Natural State and are teached as one according Mengagde in Bön.

Then you will get the Introduction into your Natural State after that you have the permission to experience all kinds of experiences and practices like the inner and outer Kordo Rushens , 6 secret Yoga Postures to induce Tögal Visions etc.

Inner Mind and outer Mind are here explained and practiced, the fruit of Dzogchen and the next step on the ladder, our Bardo of disconnecting.

viewtopic.php?f=78&t=28693

Mutsuk Marro
KY
The best meditation is no meditation

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