Why Eastern Tibet?

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Spelare
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Why Eastern Tibet?

Post by Spelare » Fri May 25, 2018 12:46 am

Why are nearly all the contemporary Dzogchen masters known in the Western world, not to mention a large proportion of Nyingma and Kagyu lamas in general, from Eastern Tibet? Especially from the region of Kham, it seems. There are exceptions, but name a lama in one of these traditions and odds are they're from Kham.

Does this date specifically from the Rimé (eclectic/non-sectarian) movement, whose major exponents were from Kham, or was this a trend even before the 19th century? I recall reading that Kham has been relatively diverse in terms of lineages for many years.

I'm also wondering whether it's that proportionally more Kham lamas are teaching in exile, due to the burden of the Chinese occupation falling especially heavily on Eastern Tibet? I don't know if that's true. Maybe there are other factors I haven't noticed.

All if this kind of makes me want to learn more about the geography and culture of Eastern Tibet. It would be nice to learn about what seems to have been a veritable crucible of realized masters.
Neither person nor skandhas
but stainless wisdom is Buddha.
In knowing ever serene—
I take refuge therein.

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Malcolm
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Re: Why Eastern Tibet?

Post by Malcolm » Fri May 25, 2018 12:53 am

Spelare wrote:
Fri May 25, 2018 12:46 am
Why are nearly all the contemporary Dzogchen masters known in the Western world, not to mention a large proportion of Nyingma and Kagyu lamas in general, from Eastern Tibet? Especially from the region of Kham, it seems. There are exceptions, but name a lama in one of these traditions and odds are they're from Kham.

Does this date specifically from the Rimé (eclectic/non-sectarian) movement, whose major exponents were from Kham, or was this a trend even before the 19th century? I recall reading that Kham has been relatively diverse in terms of lineages for many years.

I'm also wondering whether it's that proportionally more Kham lamas are teaching in exile, due to the burden of the Chinese occupation falling especially heavily on Eastern Tibet? I don't know if that's true. Maybe there are other factors I haven't noticed.

All if this kind of makes me want to learn more about the geography and culture of Eastern Tibet. It would be nice to learn about what seems to have been a veritable crucible of realized masters.
Kathog, Dzogchen, Shechen, and Palyul are all in Eastern Tibet. The two Nyingma monasteries in Central Tibet are Mindrol Ling and Dorje Drak.

The Geluk Hegemony in Central Tibet stifled the other three schools very heavily. In Kham there was more distance, and thus, more life for Sakya, Kagyu and Nyingma.
Buddhahood in This Life
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


[A]nything at all that is well spoken is the word of the Buddha.

-- Ārya-adhyāśaya-sañcodana-nāma-mahāyāna-sūtra

The different sūtras in accord with the emptiness
taught by the Sugata are definitive in meaning;
One can understand that all of those Dharmas in
which a sentient being, individual, or person are taught are provisional in meaning.

-- Samadhirāja Sūtra

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Spelare
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Re: Why Eastern Tibet?

Post by Spelare » Fri May 25, 2018 1:15 am

Malcolm wrote:
Fri May 25, 2018 12:53 am
Kathog, Dzogchen, Shechen, and Palyul are all in Eastern Tibet. The two Nyingma monasteries in Central Tibet are Mindrol Ling and Dorje Drak.

The Geluk Hegemony in Central Tibet stifled the other three schools very heavily. In Kham there was more distance, and thus, more life for Sakya, Kagyu and Nyingma.
Thanks, that's helpful. Aside from the monasteries, was there also a higher prevalence of ngakpas and lay practitioners in Kham?
Neither person nor skandhas
but stainless wisdom is Buddha.
In knowing ever serene—
I take refuge therein.

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Malcolm
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Re: Why Eastern Tibet?

Post by Malcolm » Fri May 25, 2018 1:29 am

Spelare wrote:
Fri May 25, 2018 1:15 am
Malcolm wrote:
Fri May 25, 2018 12:53 am
Kathog, Dzogchen, Shechen, and Palyul are all in Eastern Tibet. The two Nyingma monasteries in Central Tibet are Mindrol Ling and Dorje Drak.

The Geluk Hegemony in Central Tibet stifled the other three schools very heavily. In Kham there was more distance, and thus, more life for Sakya, Kagyu and Nyingma.
Thanks, that's helpful. Aside from the monasteries, was there also a higher prevalence of ngakpas and lay practitioners in Kham?
Not especially.
Buddhahood in This Life
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


[A]nything at all that is well spoken is the word of the Buddha.

-- Ārya-adhyāśaya-sañcodana-nāma-mahāyāna-sūtra

The different sūtras in accord with the emptiness
taught by the Sugata are definitive in meaning;
One can understand that all of those Dharmas in
which a sentient being, individual, or person are taught are provisional in meaning.

-- Samadhirāja Sūtra

Fortyeightvows
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Re: Why Eastern Tibet?

Post by Fortyeightvows » Fri May 25, 2018 2:19 am

Do you think that there may have been any natural geological factors that may have influenced the doctrines? like maybe certain mountains or streams played a role in how things have come down to us?
Also have the interactions with neighboring people have some effects as well?
Like the certain practices more popular here or there, etc.?

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lelopa
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Re: Why Eastern Tibet?

Post by lelopa » Fri May 25, 2018 4:11 am

Fortyeightvows wrote:
Fri May 25, 2018 2:19 am
..............................
..............................
Also have the interactions with neighboring people have some effects as well?
...............................................
One can observe that nearly everywhere on this planet!
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Virgo
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Re: Why Eastern Tibet?

Post by Virgo » Sat May 26, 2018 11:47 pm

Nevermind.

Kevin...
Last edited by Virgo on Sun May 27, 2018 12:19 am, edited 1 time in total.
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javier.espinoza.t
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Re: Why Eastern Tibet?

Post by javier.espinoza.t » Sat May 26, 2018 11:56 pm

Fortyeightvows wrote:
Fri May 25, 2018 2:19 am
Do you think that there may have been any natural geological factors that may have influenced the doctrines? like maybe certain mountains or streams played a role in how things have come down to us?
Also have the interactions with neighboring people have some effects as well?
Like the certain practices more popular here or there, etc.?
i think the one or other school popularity was due to their political endeavours
Identities are false and not true

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