Learning Dzogchen online

Pero
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Re: Learning Dzogchen online

Post by Pero » Tue Nov 27, 2018 2:31 pm

LoveFromColorado wrote:
Tue Nov 27, 2018 2:05 pm
He did, hence my small confusion :)

I really liked his translators too, especially the woman during the first couple of days
Well, lung by itself is not same as getting teaching on the text too, things might not be so clear, but if you got the lung you can read the text.
Although many individuals in this age appear to be merely indulging their worldly desires, one does not have the capacity to judge them, so it is best to train in pure vision.
- Shabkar

Pema Rigdzin
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Re: Learning Dzogchen online

Post by Pema Rigdzin » Tue Nov 27, 2018 4:52 pm

Grigoris wrote:
Tue Nov 27, 2018 11:25 am
Pema Rigdzin wrote:
Sun Nov 18, 2018 10:18 pm
How strange. One doesn't even have to have taken refuge to take an empowerment, since refuge is given in the course of the empowerment. Were those registrations for Nyingma empowerments?
Ummmmm... Every at single empowerment I have been to (Nyingma and Kagyu) there has been an "official" Refuge ceremony BEFORE the empowerments are given.
Greg, I’ve received many empowerments by a number of Nyingma lamas and I can’t remember them ever doing a separate refuge ceremony before the empowerment. The empowerment ritual itself contains refuge.

Lukeinaz
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Re: Learning Dzogchen online

Post by Lukeinaz » Tue Nov 27, 2018 5:19 pm

LoveFromColorado wrote:
Tue Nov 27, 2018 6:10 am
Hi all, in the event that anyone watched all of the Chokyi Nyima Rinpoche talks like I did (live), wow, what a teaching!

We only made it about halfway through the text - is that typical in a transmission like this one? Should that be considered the full transmission of the text? There are some practices later in the text that Rinpoche did not discuss, and I want to be sure that his transmission included these latter portions of the text before I start reading them more deeply and contemplate practicing them.

I hope that question makes sense - thank you!!
Last time I saw CNR he never made it beyond the title! The essence of the text was transmittrd with nothing excluded. Really great you have managed to make this connection.
You are truly astonishing--going to look for yourself when you already are yourself! --Longchen Rabjam

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Josef
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Re: Learning Dzogchen online

Post by Josef » Tue Nov 27, 2018 5:29 pm

Pema Rigdzin wrote:
Tue Nov 27, 2018 4:52 pm
Grigoris wrote:
Tue Nov 27, 2018 11:25 am
Pema Rigdzin wrote:
Sun Nov 18, 2018 10:18 pm
How strange. One doesn't even have to have taken refuge to take an empowerment, since refuge is given in the course of the empowerment. Were those registrations for Nyingma empowerments?
Ummmmm... Every at single empowerment I have been to (Nyingma and Kagyu) there has been an "official" Refuge ceremony BEFORE the empowerments are given.
Greg, I’ve received many empowerments by a number of Nyingma lamas and I can’t remember them ever doing a separate refuge ceremony before the empowerment. The empowerment ritual itself contains refuge.
Same. I have never experienced a separate refuge ceremony before an empowerment that includes one. That would just be redundant.
Kye ma!
The river of continuity is marked by impermanence.
Ceaseless flowing of appearance.
Beautiful and repulsive.
The dance of life and death is a display of the vast expanse.
With gratitude the watcher and the watched pass through the barrier of duality.

Malcolm
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Re: Learning Dzogchen online

Post by Malcolm » Tue Nov 27, 2018 6:25 pm

Grigoris wrote:
Tue Nov 27, 2018 11:25 am
Pema Rigdzin wrote:
Sun Nov 18, 2018 10:18 pm
How strange. One doesn't even have to have taken refuge to take an empowerment, since refuge is given in the course of the empowerment. Were those registrations for Nyingma empowerments?
Ummmmm... Αt every single empowerment I have been to (Nyingma and Kagyu) there has been an "official" Refuge ceremony BEFORE the empowerments are given.
I have seen it done both ways. But it is not necessary. All empowerments being with refuge, and bodhicitta, because all empowerments must bestow the three vows, or renew them in those who have received them before.

Malcolm
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Re: Learning Dzogchen online

Post by Malcolm » Tue Nov 27, 2018 6:27 pm

Josef wrote:
Tue Nov 27, 2018 5:29 pm
Pema Rigdzin wrote:
Tue Nov 27, 2018 4:52 pm
Grigoris wrote:
Tue Nov 27, 2018 11:25 am
Ummmmm... Every at single empowerment I have been to (Nyingma and Kagyu) there has been an "official" Refuge ceremony BEFORE the empowerments are given.
Greg, I’ve received many empowerments by a number of Nyingma lamas and I can’t remember them ever doing a separate refuge ceremony before the empowerment. The empowerment ritual itself contains refuge.
Same. I have never experienced a separate refuge ceremony before an empowerment that includes one. That would just be redundant.
It makes some people happy to participate in a hair-cutting ceremony and be granted a refuge name.

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Grigoris
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Re: Learning Dzogchen online

Post by Grigoris » Tue Nov 27, 2018 6:52 pm

Malcolm wrote:
Tue Nov 27, 2018 6:27 pm
Josef wrote:
Tue Nov 27, 2018 5:29 pm
Pema Rigdzin wrote:
Tue Nov 27, 2018 4:52 pm

Greg, I’ve received many empowerments by a number of Nyingma lamas and I can’t remember them ever doing a separate refuge ceremony before the empowerment. The empowerment ritual itself contains refuge.
Same. I have never experienced a separate refuge ceremony before an empowerment that includes one. That would just be redundant.
It makes some people happy to participate in a hair-cutting ceremony and be granted a refuge name.
And there is no need to deny them of that happiness!

Refuge, if taken seriously, is a serious entry into Dharma.
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde

Malcolm
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Re: Learning Dzogchen online

Post by Malcolm » Tue Nov 27, 2018 7:51 pm

Grigoris wrote:
Tue Nov 27, 2018 6:52 pm
Malcolm wrote:
Tue Nov 27, 2018 6:27 pm
Josef wrote:
Tue Nov 27, 2018 5:29 pm


Same. I have never experienced a separate refuge ceremony before an empowerment that includes one. That would just be redundant.
It makes some people happy to participate in a hair-cutting ceremony and be granted a refuge name.
And there is no need to deny them of that happiness!

Refuge, f taken seriously, is a serious entry into Dharma.
Going for refuge is the only entry into Dharma, whether one participates in a ritual or not.

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Grigoris
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Re: Learning Dzogchen online

Post by Grigoris » Tue Nov 27, 2018 7:53 pm

Malcolm wrote:
Tue Nov 27, 2018 7:51 pm
Going for refuge is the only entry into Dharma, whether one participates in a ritual or not.
I mean the "official" ceremony, if taken seriously...
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde

crazy-man
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Re: Learning Dzogchen online

Post by crazy-man » Tue Nov 27, 2018 11:42 pm

Dzogchen Teaching from Byangter and Khordong-gTer Tradition
http://www.simplybeing.co.uk/
http://www.khordong.de/

Pema Rigdzin
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Re: Learning Dzogchen online

Post by Pema Rigdzin » Wed Nov 28, 2018 3:29 am

Grigoris wrote:
Tue Nov 27, 2018 6:52 pm
And there is no need to deny them of that happiness!

Refuge, if taken seriously, is a serious entry into Dharma.
Greg, I personally found the formal refuge ceremony immensely meaningful; ditto for the bodhisattva vow ceremony. It was early on, many years ago, and I didn't fully realize at the time that the refuge I'd taken, and bodhicitta I'd given rise to, were every bit as official as the ceremonies, nor that I'd basically received the vows officially several times already in the course of empowerment, so the dedicated refuge and bodhicitta ceremonies made it feel official. If asked, I would still encourage anyone who feels sincerely committed to Dharma to take advantage of such opportunities.

amanitamusc
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Re: Learning Dzogchen online

Post by amanitamusc » Wed Nov 28, 2018 3:55 am

ChNNR to my knowledge never gave a ceremonial refuge giving out names but he did teach a very concise and practical
explanation of refuge.

I

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