Vajrapani and ChNN

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Mantrik
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Vajrapani and ChNN

Post by Mantrik » Sun Jul 01, 2018 8:15 pm

In the text of the Naga Rite, and apparently even in the Thuns, ChNN originally has Vajrapani as Yidam.

What was the course of events which led to his replacement in Thuns etc?
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Thanno Garuda Prachodayath

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Re: Vajrapani and ChNN

Post by javier.espinoza.t » Sun Jul 01, 2018 8:48 pm

Mantrik wrote:
Sun Jul 01, 2018 8:15 pm
In the text of the Naga Rite, and apparently even in the Thuns, ChNN originally has Vajrapani as Yidam.

What was the course of events which led to his replacement in Thuns etc?
When ChNN discovered that is highly probable that the HIV disease is linked directly to the senmo and i think also due to the dol'gyal issue and in his words due to the nervousness and obstructions caused by the gyalpos, then the GT Yidam was become more used.

in general because GT is more specific on controlling negativities of the eight clases.

i remember that. in the booklet of GT you can find specific info.
what are you doing

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Re: Vajrapani and ChNN

Post by Malcolm » Sun Jul 01, 2018 8:55 pm

Mantrik wrote:
Sun Jul 01, 2018 8:15 pm
In the text of the Naga Rite, and apparently even in the Thuns, ChNN originally has Vajrapani as Yidam.

What was the course of events which led to his replacement in Thuns etc?
Cancer.
Buddhahood in This Life
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


[A]nything at all that is well spoken is the word of the Buddha.

-- Ārya-adhyāśaya-sañcodana-nāma-mahāyāna-sūtra

The different sūtras in accord with the emptiness
taught by the Sugata are definitive in meaning;
One can understand that all of those Dharmas in
which a sentient being, individual, or person are taught are provisional in meaning.

-- Samadhirāja Sūtra

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Re: Vajrapani and ChNN

Post by Mantrik » Sun Jul 01, 2018 9:01 pm

javier.espinoza.t wrote:
Sun Jul 01, 2018 8:48 pm
Mantrik wrote:
Sun Jul 01, 2018 8:15 pm
In the text of the Naga Rite, and apparently even in the Thuns, ChNN originally has Vajrapani as Yidam.

What was the course of events which led to his replacement in Thuns etc?
When ChNN discovered that is highly probable that the HIV disease is linked directly to the senmo and i think also due to the dol'gyal issue and in his words due to the nervousness and obstructions caused by the gyalpos, then the GT Yidam was become more used.

in general because GT is more specific on controlling negativities of the eight clases.

i remember that. in the booklet of GT you can find specific info.
Thanks. :) I know the reason why GT is useful, just as I know the reason Red Garuda is useful. Giving practitioners a practice which has multiple deities is preferable to Vajrapani alone when dealing with Gyalpos etc. , but I've never seen the precise reasoning for the change written or taught anywhere, where ChNN says he is shifting the focus away from Vajrapani.
http://www.khyung.com

Om Thathpurushaya Vidhmahe
Suvarna Pakshaya Dheemahe
Thanno Garuda Prachodayath

Micchāmi Dukkaḍaṃ (मिच्छामि दुक्कडम्)

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Re: Vajrapani and ChNN

Post by Mantrik » Sun Jul 01, 2018 9:02 pm

Malcolm wrote:
Sun Jul 01, 2018 8:55 pm
Mantrik wrote:
Sun Jul 01, 2018 8:15 pm
In the text of the Naga Rite, and apparently even in the Thuns, ChNN originally has Vajrapani as Yidam.

What was the course of events which led to his replacement in Thuns etc?
Cancer.
Wouldn't that be Red Garuda?
http://www.khyung.com

Om Thathpurushaya Vidhmahe
Suvarna Pakshaya Dheemahe
Thanno Garuda Prachodayath

Micchāmi Dukkaḍaṃ (मिच्छामि दुक्कडम्)

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Re: Vajrapani and ChNN

Post by javier.espinoza.t » Sun Jul 01, 2018 9:10 pm

Mantrik wrote:
Sun Jul 01, 2018 9:01 pm
javier.espinoza.t wrote:
Sun Jul 01, 2018 8:48 pm
Mantrik wrote:
Sun Jul 01, 2018 8:15 pm
In the text of the Naga Rite, and apparently even in the Thuns, ChNN originally has Vajrapani as Yidam.

What was the course of events which led to his replacement in Thuns etc?
When ChNN discovered that is highly probable that the HIV disease is linked directly to the senmo and i think also due to the dol'gyal issue and in his words due to the nervousness and obstructions caused by the gyalpos, then the GT Yidam was become more used.

in general because GT is more specific on controlling negativities of the eight clases.

i remember that. in the booklet of GT you can find specific info.
Thanks. :) I know the reason why GT is useful, just as I know the reason Red Garuda is useful. Giving practitioners a practice which has multiple deities is preferable to Vajrapani alone when dealing with Gyalpos etc. , but I've never seen the precise reasoning for the change written or taught anywhere, where ChNN says he is shifting the focus away from Vajrapani.
this is not quite true. Vajrapani, Garuda, and other Buddhas are present GT manifestation.
what are you doing

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Re: Vajrapani and ChNN

Post by Mantrik » Sun Jul 01, 2018 9:14 pm

javier.espinoza.t wrote:
Sun Jul 01, 2018 9:10 pm
Mantrik wrote:
Sun Jul 01, 2018 9:01 pm
javier.espinoza.t wrote:
Sun Jul 01, 2018 8:48 pm


When ChNN discovered that is highly probable that the HIV disease is linked directly to the senmo and i think also due to the dol'gyal issue and in his words due to the nervousness and obstructions caused by the gyalpos, then the GT Yidam was become more used.

in general because GT is more specific on controlling negativities of the eight clases.

i remember that. in the booklet of GT you can find specific info.
Thanks. :) I know the reason why GT is useful, just as I know the reason Red Garuda is useful. Giving practitioners a practice which has multiple deities is preferable to Vajrapani alone when dealing with Gyalpos etc. , but I've never seen the precise reasoning for the change written or taught anywhere, where ChNN says he is shifting the focus away from Vajrapani.
this is not quite true. Vajrapani, Garuda, and other Buddhas are present GT manifestation.
Yes, that's why I wrote 'multiple deities'. ;)
http://www.khyung.com

Om Thathpurushaya Vidhmahe
Suvarna Pakshaya Dheemahe
Thanno Garuda Prachodayath

Micchāmi Dukkaḍaṃ (मिच्छामि दुक्कडम्)

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Re: Vajrapani and ChNN

Post by javier.espinoza.t » Sun Jul 01, 2018 9:18 pm

Mantrik wrote:
Sun Jul 01, 2018 9:14 pm
javier.espinoza.t wrote:
Sun Jul 01, 2018 9:10 pm
Mantrik wrote:
Sun Jul 01, 2018 9:01 pm


Thanks. :) I know the reason why GT is useful, just as I know the reason Red Garuda is useful. Giving practitioners a practice which has multiple deities is preferable to Vajrapani alone when dealing with Gyalpos etc. , but I've never seen the precise reasoning for the change written or taught anywhere, where ChNN says he is shifting the focus away from Vajrapani.
this is not quite true. Vajrapani, Garuda, and other Buddhas are present GT manifestation.
Yes, that's why I wrote 'multiple deities'. ;)
oh, true. pardon.
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Re: Vajrapani and ChNN

Post by Virgo » Sun Jul 01, 2018 9:39 pm

Mantrik wrote:
Sun Jul 01, 2018 9:02 pm

Wouldn't that be Red Garuda?
He is also part of Dragphur.

Kevin...

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Re: Vajrapani and ChNN

Post by Mantrik » Sun Jul 01, 2018 10:24 pm

Virgo wrote:
Sun Jul 01, 2018 9:39 pm
Mantrik wrote:
Sun Jul 01, 2018 9:02 pm

Wouldn't that be Red Garuda?
He is also part of Dragphur.

Kevin...
I know. :)

I know the Dragphur practice well. I'm asking what prompted the change from Vajrapani. If it was cancer alone Red Garuda would suffice. The Gyalpo issue was another factor I assume.

Simhamukha is also in the mix.

I wondered if he had received guidance in a dream etc.

Dragphur has so many deities and functions it may be simply that ChNN was making life easy for us. :)
http://www.khyung.com

Om Thathpurushaya Vidhmahe
Suvarna Pakshaya Dheemahe
Thanno Garuda Prachodayath

Micchāmi Dukkaḍaṃ (मिच्छामि दुक्कडम्)

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Re: Vajrapani and ChNN

Post by Virgo » Sun Jul 01, 2018 10:38 pm

Mantrik wrote:
Sun Jul 01, 2018 10:24 pm


I know. :)

I know the Dragphur practice well. I'm asking what prompted the change from Vajrapani. If it was cancer alone Red Garuda would suffice. The Gyalpo issue was another factor I assume.

Simhamukha is also in the mix.

I wondered if he had received guidance in a dream etc.

Dragphur has so many deities and functions it may be simply that ChNN was making life easy for us. :)
Hi Mantrik, I am not sure of his reasoning, but I also suspect that maybe it what you suggested-- it is quite the versatile practice.

Kevin...

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Re: Vajrapani and ChNN

Post by lelopa » Mon Jul 02, 2018 6:37 am

At the Guru Dragphur-DonWang in 1992 ChNN said someting like:

"I will give you the GD-DonWang because with GD we have a little more function as with Vajrapani, whom we use mainly for paralyisis - GD controls Gyalpo & Sinmo....."

Then he explained that he did "research" on AIDS and found out that sinmo is responsible for AIDS and that Vajrapani & Guru Dragpo, Yangdag, Kilaya & Garuda is also contained in GD.
Since then Vajrapani was replaced in the practiced Thuns and a little later in the texts.
ཨོཾ་ཨཱཿཧཱུྃ་བོ་དྷི་ཙིཏྟ་མ་ཧཱ་སུ་ཁ་ཛྙཱ་ན་དྷཱརྟུ་ཨཱཿ

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Re: Vajrapani and ChNN

Post by Mantrik » Mon Jul 02, 2018 7:18 am

lelopa wrote:
Mon Jul 02, 2018 6:37 am
At the Guru Dragphur-DonWang in 1992 ChNN said someting like:

"I will give you the GD-DonWang because with GD we have a little more function as with Vajrapani, whom we use mainly for paralyisis - GD controls Gyalpo & Sinmo....."

Then he explained that he did "research" on AIDS and found out that sinmo is responsible for AIDS and that Vajrapani & Guru Dragpo, Yangdag, Kilaya & Garuda is also contained in GD.
Since then Vajrapani was replaced in the practiced Thuns and a little later in the texts.
Perfect. Thanks. :)
I thought it must be something like that but hadn't seen info about the the actual turning point.

In the Naga Rite booklet ChNN mentions Dragpo, Vajrapani and Sinhamukha as possible, but I don't know if that has been updated.
http://www.khyung.com

Om Thathpurushaya Vidhmahe
Suvarna Pakshaya Dheemahe
Thanno Garuda Prachodayath

Micchāmi Dukkaḍaṃ (मिच्छामि दुक्कडम्)

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Re: Vajrapani and ChNN

Post by lelopa » Mon Jul 02, 2018 7:21 am

Mantrik wrote:
Mon Jul 02, 2018 7:18 am
lelopa wrote:
Mon Jul 02, 2018 6:37 am
At the Guru Dragphur-DonWang in 1992 ChNN said someting like:

"I will give you the GD-DonWang because with GD we have a little more function as with Vajrapani, whom we use mainly for paralyisis - GD controls Gyalpo & Sinmo....."

Then he explained that he did "research" on AIDS and found out that sinmo is responsible for AIDS and that Vajrapani & Guru Dragpo, Yangdag, Kilaya & Garuda is also contained in GD.
Since then Vajrapani was replaced in the practiced Thuns and a little later in the texts.
Perfect. Thanks. :)
I thought it must be something like that but hadn't seen info about the the actual turning point.

In the Naga Rite booklet ChNN mentions Dragpo, Vajrapani and Sinhamukha as possible, but I don't know if that has been updated.
my Naga Rite booklet is also an old one :shrug:
but the DC replaced these yidams with GD everywhere
ཨོཾ་ཨཱཿཧཱུྃ་བོ་དྷི་ཙིཏྟ་མ་ཧཱ་སུ་ཁ་ཛྙཱ་ན་དྷཱརྟུ་ཨཱཿ

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Re: Vajrapani and ChNN

Post by Mantrik » Mon Jul 02, 2018 7:42 am

lelopa wrote:
Mon Jul 02, 2018 7:21 am
Mantrik wrote:
Mon Jul 02, 2018 7:18 am
lelopa wrote:
Mon Jul 02, 2018 6:37 am
At the Guru Dragphur-DonWang in 1992 ChNN said someting like:

"I will give you the GD-DonWang because with GD we have a little more function as with Vajrapani, whom we use mainly for paralyisis - GD controls Gyalpo & Sinmo....."

Then he explained that he did "research" on AIDS and found out that sinmo is responsible for AIDS and that Vajrapani & Guru Dragpo, Yangdag, Kilaya & Garuda is also contained in GD.
Since then Vajrapani was replaced in the practiced Thuns and a little later in the texts.
Perfect. Thanks. :)
I thought it must be something like that but hadn't seen info about the the actual turning point.

In the Naga Rite booklet ChNN mentions Dragpo, Vajrapani and Sinhamukha as possible, but I don't know if that has been updated.
my Naga Rite booklet is also an old one :shrug:
but the DC replaced these yidams with GD everywhere
It's a Thun format so I think it is safe to use GD (or Simhamukha, as she is already mentioned) , especially as the practice incorporates all those others. The main thing he emphasises is not to approach the Dharmapalas and Nagas without self-generation. I suspect that needs spelling out.
http://www.khyung.com

Om Thathpurushaya Vidhmahe
Suvarna Pakshaya Dheemahe
Thanno Garuda Prachodayath

Micchāmi Dukkaḍaṃ (मिच्छामि दुक्कडम्)

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Re: Vajrapani and ChNN

Post by lelopa » Mon Jul 02, 2018 7:45 am

Mantrik wrote:
Mon Jul 02, 2018 7:42 am
lelopa wrote:
Mon Jul 02, 2018 7:21 am
Mantrik wrote:
Mon Jul 02, 2018 7:18 am


Perfect. Thanks. :)
I thought it must be something like that but hadn't seen info about the the actual turning point.

In the Naga Rite booklet ChNN mentions Dragpo, Vajrapani and Sinhamukha as possible, but I don't know if that has been updated.
my Naga Rite booklet is also an old one :shrug:
but the DC replaced these yidams with GD everywhere
It's a Thun format so I think it is safe to use GD (or Simhamukha, as she is already mentioned) , especially as the practice incorporates all those others. The main thing he emphasises is not to approach the Dharmapalas and Nagas without self-generation. I suspect that needs spelling out.
Simhamukha at waning lunar phase
ཨོཾ་ཨཱཿཧཱུྃ་བོ་དྷི་ཙིཏྟ་མ་ཧཱ་སུ་ཁ་ཛྙཱ་ན་དྷཱརྟུ་ཨཱཿ

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Re: Vajrapani and ChNN

Post by Mantrik » Mon Jul 02, 2018 7:56 am

lelopa wrote:
Mon Jul 02, 2018 7:45 am
Mantrik wrote:
Mon Jul 02, 2018 7:42 am
lelopa wrote:
Mon Jul 02, 2018 7:21 am


my Naga Rite booklet is also an old one :shrug:
but the DC replaced these yidams with GD everywhere
It's a Thun format so I think it is safe to use GD (or Simhamukha, as she is already mentioned) , especially as the practice incorporates all those others. The main thing he emphasises is not to approach the Dharmapalas and Nagas without self-generation. I suspect that needs spelling out.
Simhamukha at waning lunar phase
Yes :)
The Thun & Ganapuja book and the new commentary are amazing - such a complete support for Guruyoga.
http://www.khyung.com

Om Thathpurushaya Vidhmahe
Suvarna Pakshaya Dheemahe
Thanno Garuda Prachodayath

Micchāmi Dukkaḍaṃ (मिच्छामि दुक्कडम्)

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Re: Vajrapani and ChNN

Post by Tenma » Mon Jul 02, 2018 7:13 pm

When is the next GD empowerment?

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Re: Vajrapani and ChNN

Post by Norwegian » Mon Jul 02, 2018 7:38 pm

Tenma wrote:
Mon Jul 02, 2018 7:13 pm
When is the next GD empowerment?
Nobody knows. Rinpoche is resting and recuperating.

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Re: Vajrapani and ChNN

Post by Tenma » Mon Jul 02, 2018 10:02 pm

Norwegian wrote:
Mon Jul 02, 2018 7:38 pm
Tenma wrote:
Mon Jul 02, 2018 7:13 pm
When is the next GD empowerment?
Nobody knows. Rinpoche is resting and recuperating.
I thought he just recovered from cancer?

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