Grigoris wrote: ↑
Sun Jul 08, 2018 7:17 am
Mantrik wrote: ↑
Sat Jul 07, 2018 10:06 pm
Ordination seems to me to add nothing to the 3 Statements and the process.
Fair enough, Nyingmapa monastics since the 8th century seem to disagree with you, but obviously you are welcome to your opinion.
Integration into everyday life would not seem easier as you cannot generalise about monastic or lay life's challenges.
I don't understand what you are saying here. Could you please clarify?
Simply that we can't assume monastic life would be a tranquil and supportive environment. Sometimes they get as little time to sit and practise as a lay person with a job. Neither is it guaranteed to be free of anger, attachment etc.
(I have spoken to monastics too. )
So a monastic would need to attain 'no more doubt' and 'integrate' into daily life in a similar way as a lay person and, as the Master says: 'Work with circumstances'.
Ordaining for a while may give a better opportunity for practice, or not, but moving away from the monastic environment and back into lay life after that experience may or may not make it easier to have a stabilised practice.
I recall ChNN saying, and I paraphrase, that vows are useful for people who need them in order to control how they behave. Now I think he meant Refuge Vows etc. but I think it applies to ordination.
So I see two aspects - the ordination (hence my comment on robes) and its usefulness, and the monastic environment and its usefulness.
I won't generalise, as individuals respond very differently to environments and circumstances, as you know, so I'm at a loss to explain why anyone can make a 'universal truth' out of 'it depends'.
The circumstances being discussed are not 8th Century but DC members in the present.