What happens at the end of a mahakalpa?

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Aryjna
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Re: What happens at the end of a mahakalpa?

Post by Aryjna » Sat Jul 21, 2018 7:23 am

javier.espinoza.t wrote:
Sat Jul 21, 2018 6:51 am
Aryjna wrote:
Fri Jul 20, 2018 6:38 pm
javier.espinoza.t wrote:
Fri Jul 20, 2018 4:19 pm


I just readed what was quoted, i'm sorry if I didn't get it all.

there is no karma reset, that I said. I was surprised that the idea of a karma reset in the relative level came here in a buddhist forum.
If there is no karma reset it should not be possible to have a general reset at the end of the mahakalpa. If the karma of all beings is not reset then it is not a reset at all.
mm afaik karma is not a material "thing" to be destroyed. and a mental formation is enough for karma to operate, inherently.

btw, according to mahayana it is supposed that the realms up to the desire realms of the devas are those that are destroyed. tushita is not destroyed, is it?
I don't know, but it seems that the mahakalpa reset is resolved, based on the above about karmic traces being stored during the temporary buddhahood of all beings between mahakalpas.

haha
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Re: What happens at the end of a mahakalpa?

Post by haha » Sat Jul 21, 2018 10:01 am

fckw wrote:
Fri Jul 20, 2018 10:13 pm
heart wrote:
Fri Jul 20, 2018 7:29 pm
Also, it makes a big difference how long you can rest in the natural state because the omniscient quality need some time to flower fully.
/magnus
Can you please elaborate on that? I have never heard of this, but it would explain some things.
My understanding by reading and listening, I can say something that I remember right now.

When the ground is introduced, it is not different from the fruition. What makes the different then. While in the ground, the qualities do not manifest even though they are present from very beginning. While in fruition they fully manifest.

Even though one has understood the view, the duration of resting does not increase. One can use Sem-dzin methods for self-introduction but duration does not increase (i.e. my experience). It is because one has to purify his or her past tendencies and habitual patterns. It is said that sem needs to purify but rigpa need to realize. Vimalamitra used to practice the khorde rushen for six months every year while he was in India.

fckw
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Re: What happens at the end of a mahakalpa?

Post by fckw » Wed Jul 25, 2018 11:40 am

haha wrote:
Sat Jul 21, 2018 10:01 am
fckw wrote:
Fri Jul 20, 2018 10:13 pm
heart wrote:
Fri Jul 20, 2018 7:29 pm
Also, it makes a big difference how long you can rest in the natural state because the omniscient quality need some time to flower fully.
/magnus
Can you please elaborate on that? I have never heard of this, but it would explain some things.
My understanding by reading and listening, I can say something that I remember right now.

When the ground is introduced, it is not different from the fruition. What makes the different then. While in the ground, the qualities do not manifest even though they are present from very beginning. While in fruition they fully manifest.

Even though one has understood the view, the duration of resting does not increase. One can use Sem-dzin methods for self-introduction but duration does not increase (i.e. my experience). It is because one has to purify his or her past tendencies and habitual patterns. It is said that sem needs to purify but rigpa need to realize. Vimalamitra used to practice the khorde rushen for six months every year while he was in India.
Thanks, this is a very interesting point. I would be interested if anyone else can back this point up, it sounds very relevant to me.

You mention sem-dzin. Any other practices that are recommended in this context?

haha
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Re: What happens at the end of a mahakalpa?

Post by haha » Thu Jul 26, 2018 11:36 am

fckw wrote:
Wed Jul 25, 2018 11:40 am
You mention sem-dzin. Any other practices that are recommended in this context?
Annuttara Deity sadhana can be practiced with understanding the Dzogchen view. While doing so, every time one familiarizes the dzogchen view by practicing the sadhana. However, without the dzogchen view, one can see different emphasis, scope, focus, and limitation in deity yoga.


fckw wrote:
Wed Jul 25, 2018 11:40 am
Thanks, this is a very interesting point. I would be interested if anyone else can back this point up, it sounds very relevant to me.
Sem may be conceptual or non-conceptual and, in either case, is always stained. Rigpa, on the other hand, is exclusively non-conceptual, in a purer manner than is non-conceptual sem, and is never stained by either of the two sets of obscurations.
Since mental activity, whether limited or pure, is naturally devoid of fleeting stains, rigpa is the natural state of sem. Thus, rigpa, with its essential nature of being devoid of all stains, can be recognized as the basis of each moment of our cognition.
Dzogchen, then, is a method of practice, grounded in bodhichitta and non-conceptual cognition of voidness, enabling us to recognize rigpa and stay forever at its level of mental activity free from all obscuration. In this way, rigpa’s “great completeness” (dzogchen) of all enlightening qualities for benefiting others becomes fully operational.

Sutra and the lower classes of tantra employ subtle mental activity for the cognition of voidness. Only anuttarayoga, the highest class of tantra, accesses and uses clear light mental activity for this purpose .
Parallel to this presentation, sutra and the lower classes of tantra in the Nyingma system employ sem for the cognition of voidness. Only dzogchen accesses and uses rigpa for this purpose.
The non-dzogchen systems explain that subtlest clear light mind manifests at the moment of death. A facsimile of it manifests for an instant when experiencing orgasm, falling asleep, fainting, sneezing, and yawning. At such times, the grosser energy-winds (rlung, Skt. prana, “lung”) that support gross and subtle mental activity temporarily cease (dissolve), thus temporarily stopping these two levels of mental activity and enabling the clear light level to function.
To gain stable control of clear light mental activity, however, requires accessing this level in meditation. We accomplish this with anuttarayoga complete stage practices (rdzogs-rim, completion stage) of working with the body’s subtle energy system to dissolve the energy-winds. As a cause for success on the complete stage, we imagine the dissolution process on the generation stage (bskyed-rim), modeled after the stages of death, bardo, and rebirth.

With the dzogchen methods, we recognize and access the subtlest mental activity – in this case, rigpa – without need to dissolve the energy-winds as the method for gaining access. But, how to recognize rigpa?


Moreover, even when reflexive deep awareness (rang-rig ye-shes) of its own void nature is presented as a natural quality of clear light, as in the Sakya and Kagyu systems, still it is not always operational, also as in ordinary death. Therefore, anuttarayoga practice aims at achieving, in meditation, cognitive clear light that is fully aware of its own object clear light nature.
Rigpa, on the other hand, is innately aware of its own void nature. When we access it, it automatically is fully aware of its own nature. In dzogchen terms, it knows its own face (rang-ngo shes-pa).

Basis rigpa (gzhi’i rig-pa) is the working basis of pure awareness. It is unobstructed and all-permeating (zang-thal) in the sense that it permeates all sem without obstruction, like sesame oil permeates sesame seeds, despite the fact that we do not recognize it. Thus, rigpa is an aspect of Buddha-nature and, according to dzogchen, it is complete with all good qualities (yon-tan, Buddha-qualities), such as omniscience and all-encompassing compassion. Rigpa is analogous to the sun, and just as the sun cannot exist separately from the qualities of the sun, such as light and warmth, similarly rigpa does not exist separately from the Buddha-qualities.

Thus, when we access essence rigpa in meditation and it becomes operational, we do not have to add on top of it the Buddha-qualities. We do not need to actualize on top of it a mind of omniscient awareness or of all-encompassing compassion. It is naturally and spontaneously (lhun-grub) there.
Some important points from: https://studybuddhism.com/en/advanced-s ... st-systems
Please check out the whole article. Actually, there are other references which i used while replying your previous post.

oldbob
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Re: What happens at the end of a mahakalpa?

Post by oldbob » Thu Jul 26, 2018 3:27 pm

Aryjna wrote:
Thu Jul 19, 2018 7:17 pm
[Split from Yidam and Dzogchen]
Malcolm wrote:
Mon Apr 11, 2011 12:13 pm
Mariusz wrote: How it is possible?
Is it somehow related to “Youthful Vase Body” (Wyl. Gzhon-Nu Bum-sku) which can be "broken" even after the buddhahood, when from it will arise the Appearances of the Basis (Wyl. Gzhi-sNang) and they will be not spontaneously accomplished (Wyl. Lhun-Grub) because of Unenlightenment (Wyl. Ma-Rig-pa) again?

It is because buddhahood of lower yānas is incomplete and does not reach the stage of ka dag chen po, great original purity. The simplest way to explain it is that after the this universe dissolves and the next one arises, those beings who have not achieved the stage of ka dag chen po start all over.

N
Malcolm wrote:
Mon Sep 12, 2011 4:30 pm
There are three explanations possible, given that Dzogchen tantras and traditions definitely state that Samantabhadra was intiallly subject to either one or two ignorances (ma rig pa, avidyā):

1) The Dzogchen assertion that all sentient beings attain "full awakening (sangs rgyas)" at the end of a given mahākalpa requires interpetation and must not be taken literally.
2) Buddhahood is, up to a point, in fact reversible.
3) Buddhas and sentient beings newly form at the beginning of a mahākalapa.

All three possibilities present problems in terms of traditional Indian Mahāyāna Buddhology.

This controversy first came to my attention when my Sakya khenpo mentioned it in passing in the early '90's.
This is not very pleasant. If there is a complete reset at the end of a mahakalpa is all karma reset as well? That would invalidate the majority of dharma schools/traditions unless it is more or less certain that one gets from the 10th to the 16th by the end of the mahakalpa, or unless the merit/progress is to some degree retained.
idunno

All good posts and excellent explanations of philosophical differences.

I don't spend any time thinking about such things - no benefit. Put the issue to rest many years ago.

All sentient beings have the Buddha seed. Buddha nature (Buddha seed) is beyond time, or any limited definition. All sentient beings will be enlightened eventually. Just have to wait until their karma catches up with their Buddha seed.

Be patient.

Practice as you are able.

Relax in the natural state that is beyond seed or fruition.

Floss.

:heart:

Tolya M
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Re: What happens at the end of a mahakalpa?

Post by Tolya M » Mon Apr 01, 2019 2:24 am

During the end of the kalpa, nothing controversial particularly happens. Everybody starts doing good, samadhi, etc., and all the creatures of the world system gather in Brihatphala with brahma bodies and minds. This is the highest undestructible level of mundane 4th Dhyana with only rupa-abode Akanistha above. All lower planes are burned, washed off with water and blown away by the wind. Then, after a long long period of time, the brahmas get worse and unfold again into 6 classes of beings. So as I understansd, Samantabhadra-to-be spoken in Dzogchen tantras is brahma-like-candidate-for-buddhahood when he sees with divine eyes lights, beings, buddhas etc. It is description "from the eyes of" (unlike Abhidharma do) with addition of dzogchen recognized phenomena until his first proliferation or recognizing and then he becomes living being without comitting any evil or buddha without performing any virtue (it was performed a long time ago through rising to this abode).

If there are arya-sravakas or avaivartika bodhisattvas and they didnt recognize this subtle subject then they continue as 7-th bhumi bodhisattvas or anagamins etc. Actually I find a case of "karma reset" or their retrogression up to ordinary beings totally controversial because causality in consciousness does not work as coarse external things do. The topic is very interesting indeed but it is unlikely there is information that turns everything upside down. If there is ignorance, vasanas are. If there are vasanas, then there are sruta-vasanas and so on. Thus particular arya or bodhisattva cannot fall lower than he can and can not forget anything as he possesses pratisamvids\super knowleges at this level. Without pretending to be the final version but I got such an idea. And Im not a native speaker so sorry.

PS Another possible option is that the description includes representatives of the worldly Akanistha

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Drenpa
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Re: Yidam and Dzogchen

Post by Drenpa » Wed Apr 03, 2019 7:58 pm

Aryjna wrote:
Thu Jul 19, 2018 8:23 pm
Miroku wrote:
Thu Jul 19, 2018 7:58 pm
Hm, that is quite a bummer. Can't help but feel a bit down because of it. :) Is it really like that? How can buddhahood be reversible?
It invalidates karma (if karma is also reset which is what is sounds like), it also invalidates the Mahayana motivation as everyone will attain some kind of buddhahood and then reset, leaving only Dzogchen but as it looks like at the moment also weakens it significantly as well.
Smoking crack and practicing are no different if there are resets at frequent intervals.
Frequent intervals? :rolling:

This is precisely why Norbu Rinpoche emphasized the mirror over eyeglasses. If we spend our limited time stressing over the nuances of Dzogchen cosmology and getting sketched out when things don't jive in accordance with our intellectual ability, we'll always be stressed out. All intellectual systems and explanations limited by mind, are inherently contradictory and will never be resolved by mind. This is understood concretely even in the realm of physics by those paying attention:

The only rest, joy, relaxation, bliss, peace, nirvana we will EVER experience in this life is through applying the instructions, not straining over the theoretical nuances of buddhahood with and without remainder at the "frequent" interval of the mahakalpa. It's like an ameoba on a spec of dust hurtling towards the fire worrying about the sun dying in 4 billion years. There are bigger fish to fry.

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