Only thirteen buddhafields?

jhanapeacock
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Only thirteen buddhafields?

Post by jhanapeacock » Sun Sep 23, 2018 4:15 am

In mahayana there is an inmeasurable number of nirmanakaya and sambhogakaya buddhafields, but in dzogchen there are only thirteen buddhafields (zhing khrams) is this correct?

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Lingpupa
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Re: Only thirteen buddhafields?

Post by Lingpupa » Sun Sep 23, 2018 9:04 am

jhanapeacock wrote:
Sun Sep 23, 2018 4:15 am
In mahayana there is an inmeasurable number of nirmanakaya and sambhogakaya buddhafields, but in dzogchen there are only thirteen buddhafields (zhing khrams) is this correct?
Not really. The scheme of 13 bodhisattva levels, going to Buddhahood and beyond, is common. The number of buddhafields is mindbogglingly vast.
All the best
Alex Wilding
Stupa in the Snow blog at http://chagchen.org/

amanitamusc
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Re: Only thirteen buddhafields?

Post by amanitamusc » Sun Sep 23, 2018 9:25 am

jhanapeacock wrote:
Sun Sep 23, 2018 4:15 am
In mahayana there is an inmeasurable number of nirmanakaya and sambhogakaya buddhafields, but in dzogchen there are only thirteen buddhafields (zhing khrams) is this correct?
I have heard Dzogchen exist in thirteen planetary systems including this one.
This does not include other dimensions.

Pero
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Re: Only thirteen buddhafields?

Post by Pero » Sun Sep 23, 2018 9:50 am

jhanapeacock wrote:
Sun Sep 23, 2018 4:15 am
In mahayana there is an inmeasurable number of nirmanakaya and sambhogakaya buddhafields, but in dzogchen there are only thirteen buddhafields (zhing khrams) is this correct?
As far as I understand, there are thirteen buddhafields where Dzogchen teachings exists, not thirteen in all. Actually it is not clear to me whether the thirteen reffered to are buddhafields or solar systems in this universe (I understood it to be the latter but now not sure). Does a buddhafield encompass the entire universe?
Although many individuals in this age appear to be merely indulging their worldly desires, one does not have the capacity to judge them, so it is best to train in pure vision.
- Shabkar

jhanapeacock
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Re: Only thirteen buddhafields?

Post by jhanapeacock » Sun Sep 23, 2018 3:15 pm

Pero wrote:
Sun Sep 23, 2018 9:50 am
jhanapeacock wrote:
Sun Sep 23, 2018 4:15 am
In mahayana there is an inmeasurable number of nirmanakaya and sambhogakaya buddhafields, but in dzogchen there are only thirteen buddhafields (zhing khrams) is this correct?
As far as I understand, there are thirteen buddhafields where Dzogchen teachings exists, not thirteen in all. Actually it is not clear to me whether the thirteen reffered to are buddhafields or solar systems in this universe (I understood it to be the latter but now not sure). Does a buddhafield encompass the entire universe?
Yes, a buddhafield is understood to be a trichiliocosm which represent an entire universe (i would say it looks more like a multiverse)... Some people say a world system is a solar system, i disagree, it looks more like a galaxy or even universe, since in a trichiliocosm there is many jamvudvipas, how many earths are in the universe? as far as i know there could be other habitable worlds like this, but earth is only one.

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Aryjna
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Re: Only thirteen buddhafields?

Post by Aryjna » Sun Sep 23, 2018 6:45 pm

jhanapeacock wrote:
Sun Sep 23, 2018 3:15 pm
Pero wrote:
Sun Sep 23, 2018 9:50 am
jhanapeacock wrote:
Sun Sep 23, 2018 4:15 am
In mahayana there is an inmeasurable number of nirmanakaya and sambhogakaya buddhafields, but in dzogchen there are only thirteen buddhafields (zhing khrams) is this correct?
As far as I understand, there are thirteen buddhafields where Dzogchen teachings exists, not thirteen in all. Actually it is not clear to me whether the thirteen reffered to are buddhafields or solar systems in this universe (I understood it to be the latter but now not sure). Does a buddhafield encompass the entire universe?
Yes, a buddhafield is understood to be a trichiliocosm which represent an entire universe (i would say it looks more like a multiverse)... Some people say a world system is a solar system, i disagree, it looks more like a galaxy or even universe, since in a trichiliocosm there is many jamvudvipas, how many earths are in the universe? as far as i know there could be other habitable worlds like this, but earth is only one.
You may be mixing up buddhafield with the trichiliocosm. A buddhafield is a pure land, while the trichiliocosm is a a billion regular universes all together.

jhanapeacock
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Re: Only thirteen buddhafields?

Post by jhanapeacock » Sun Sep 23, 2018 6:48 pm

Aryjna wrote:
Sun Sep 23, 2018 6:45 pm
jhanapeacock wrote:
Sun Sep 23, 2018 3:15 pm
Pero wrote:
Sun Sep 23, 2018 9:50 am


As far as I understand, there are thirteen buddhafields where Dzogchen teachings exists, not thirteen in all. Actually it is not clear to me whether the thirteen reffered to are buddhafields or solar systems in this universe (I understood it to be the latter but now not sure). Does a buddhafield encompass the entire universe?
Yes, a buddhafield is understood to be a trichiliocosm which represent an entire universe (i would say it looks more like a multiverse)... Some people say a world system is a solar system, i disagree, it looks more like a galaxy or even universe, since in a trichiliocosm there is many jamvudvipas, how many earths are in the universe? as far as i know there could be other habitable worlds like this, but earth is only one.
You may be mixing up buddhafield with the trichiliocosm. A buddhafield is a pure land, while the trichiliocosm is a a billion regular universes all together.
Saha world is a buddhafield and is a trichiliocosm, traditionally a buddhafield is considered to be a trichiliocosm. Literal interpretation of a trichiliocosm is a billion world systems, but in fact it really means the entire universe.

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Aryjna
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Re: Only thirteen buddhafields?

Post by Aryjna » Sun Sep 23, 2018 6:50 pm

jhanapeacock wrote:
Sun Sep 23, 2018 6:48 pm
Aryjna wrote:
Sun Sep 23, 2018 6:45 pm
jhanapeacock wrote:
Sun Sep 23, 2018 3:15 pm


Yes, a buddhafield is understood to be a trichiliocosm which represent an entire universe (i would say it looks more like a multiverse)... Some people say a world system is a solar system, i disagree, it looks more like a galaxy or even universe, since in a trichiliocosm there is many jamvudvipas, how many earths are in the universe? as far as i know there could be other habitable worlds like this, but earth is only one.
You may be mixing up buddhafield with the trichiliocosm. A buddhafield is a pure land, while the trichiliocosm is a a billion regular universes all together.
Saha world is a buddhafield and is a trichiliocosm, traditionally a buddhafield is considered to be a trichiliocosm. Literal interpretation of a trichiliocosm is a billion world systems, but in fact it really means the entire universe.
Maybe, but that does not mean that buddhafield and trichiliocosm are synonyms. Also there are practically infinite trichiliocosms.

Malcolm
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Re: Only thirteen buddhafields?

Post by Malcolm » Sun Sep 23, 2018 8:03 pm

jhanapeacock wrote:
Sun Sep 23, 2018 4:15 am
In mahayana there is an inmeasurable number of nirmanakaya and sambhogakaya buddhafields, but in dzogchen there are only thirteen buddhafields (zhing khrams) is this correct?
There are thirteen buddhafields apart from this one where Dzogchen teachings may be found. This is the meaning. It is meant to point out how rare Dzogchen teachings are. Out of the countless buddhafields in the universe/s, there are only thirteen buddhafields that possess these teachings, and ours is one of them.

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Dorje Shedrub
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Re: Only thirteen buddhafields?

Post by Dorje Shedrub » Sun Sep 23, 2018 8:37 pm

Malcolm wrote:
Sun Sep 23, 2018 8:03 pm
jhanapeacock wrote:
Sun Sep 23, 2018 4:15 am
In mahayana there is an inmeasurable number of nirmanakaya and sambhogakaya buddhafields, but in dzogchen there are only thirteen buddhafields (zhing khrams) is this correct?
There are thirteen buddhafields apart from this one where Dzogchen teachings may be found. This is the meaning. It is meant to point out how rare Dzogchen teachings are. Out of the countless buddhafields in the universe/s, there are only thirteen buddhafields that possess these teachings, and ours is one of them.
Is there significance for the specific number of 13?

DS
Homage to the Precious Dzogchen Master
🙏🌺🙏 Chögyal Namkhai Norbu Rinpoche
🙏🌺🙏

Malcolm
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Re: Only thirteen buddhafields?

Post by Malcolm » Sun Sep 23, 2018 8:59 pm

Dorje Shedrub wrote:
Sun Sep 23, 2018 8:37 pm
Malcolm wrote:
Sun Sep 23, 2018 8:03 pm
jhanapeacock wrote:
Sun Sep 23, 2018 4:15 am
In mahayana there is an inmeasurable number of nirmanakaya and sambhogakaya buddhafields, but in dzogchen there are only thirteen buddhafields (zhing khrams) is this correct?
There are thirteen buddhafields apart from this one where Dzogchen teachings may be found. This is the meaning. It is meant to point out how rare Dzogchen teachings are. Out of the countless buddhafields in the universe/s, there are only thirteen buddhafields that possess these teachings, and ours is one of them.
Is there significance for the specific number of 13?

DS
None of which I am aware.

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明安 Myoan
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Re: Only thirteen buddhafields?

Post by 明安 Myoan » Sun Sep 23, 2018 9:59 pm

Is Amitabha's Pure Land among the 13?
With a heart wandering in ignorance down this path and that, to guide me I simply say Namu-amida-butsu. -- Ippen

The virtuous man should recite nembutsu just as he is, as should the bad man. We regard faithful people, who repeat Nembutsu with a mind as pure as the day they were born, as those who do not require external support in nembutsu. However, if the bad rectify their misdeeds, become good and recite nembutsu, they will truly be in harmony with the heart of Buddha Amitabha. -- Master Hōnen

Tenma
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Re: Only thirteen buddhafields?

Post by Tenma » Mon Sep 24, 2018 12:44 am

Malcolm wrote:
Sun Sep 23, 2018 8:03 pm
jhanapeacock wrote:
Sun Sep 23, 2018 4:15 am
In mahayana there is an inmeasurable number of nirmanakaya and sambhogakaya buddhafields, but in dzogchen there are only thirteen buddhafields (zhing khrams) is this correct?
There are thirteen buddhafields apart from this one where Dzogchen teachings may be found. This is the meaning. It is meant to point out how rare Dzogchen teachings are. Out of the countless buddhafields in the universe/s, there are only thirteen buddhafields that possess these teachings, and ours is one of them.
How is this a Buddha Field? I thought we were in samsara? Not only that, but even if everything were a Buddha Field, how would there be a set number of Buddha Fields?

jhanapeacock
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Re: Only thirteen buddhafields?

Post by jhanapeacock » Mon Sep 24, 2018 1:06 am

Tenma wrote:
Mon Sep 24, 2018 12:44 am
Malcolm wrote:
Sun Sep 23, 2018 8:03 pm
jhanapeacock wrote:
Sun Sep 23, 2018 4:15 am
In mahayana there is an inmeasurable number of nirmanakaya and sambhogakaya buddhafields, but in dzogchen there are only thirteen buddhafields (zhing khrams) is this correct?
There are thirteen buddhafields apart from this one where Dzogchen teachings may be found. This is the meaning. It is meant to point out how rare Dzogchen teachings are. Out of the countless buddhafields in the universe/s, there are only thirteen buddhafields that possess these teachings, and ours is one of them.
How is this a Buddha Field? I thought we were in samsara? Not only that, but even if everything were a Buddha Field, how would there be a set number of Buddha Fields?
As i understand, there are nirmanakaya and sambhogakaya buddhafields, and they also can be impure or pure, Saha world is a nirmanakaya impure buddhafield, so is part of samsara, akanistha gandavyuha is a sambhogakaya pure buddhafield outside samsara.

PeterC
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Re: Only thirteen buddhafields?

Post by PeterC » Mon Sep 24, 2018 6:05 am

Tenma wrote:
Mon Sep 24, 2018 12:44 am
How is this a Buddha Field? I thought we were in samsara?

:sage:

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Aryjna
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Re: Only thirteen buddhafields?

Post by Aryjna » Mon Sep 24, 2018 7:10 am

Malcolm wrote:
Sun Sep 23, 2018 8:03 pm
jhanapeacock wrote:
Sun Sep 23, 2018 4:15 am
In mahayana there is an inmeasurable number of nirmanakaya and sambhogakaya buddhafields, but in dzogchen there are only thirteen buddhafields (zhing khrams) is this correct?
There are thirteen buddhafields apart from this one where Dzogchen teachings may be found. This is the meaning. It is meant to point out how rare Dzogchen teachings are. Out of the countless buddhafields in the universe/s, there are only thirteen buddhafields that possess these teachings, and ours is one of them.
Are the names of these buddhafields and any more information available somewhere?

Malcolm
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Re: Only thirteen buddhafields?

Post by Malcolm » Mon Sep 24, 2018 5:12 pm

Aryjna wrote:
Mon Sep 24, 2018 7:10 am
Malcolm wrote:
Sun Sep 23, 2018 8:03 pm
jhanapeacock wrote:
Sun Sep 23, 2018 4:15 am
In mahayana there is an inmeasurable number of nirmanakaya and sambhogakaya buddhafields, but in dzogchen there are only thirteen buddhafields (zhing khrams) is this correct?
There are thirteen buddhafields apart from this one where Dzogchen teachings may be found. This is the meaning. It is meant to point out how rare Dzogchen teachings are. Out of the countless buddhafields in the universe/s, there are only thirteen buddhafields that possess these teachings, and ours is one of them.
Are the names of these buddhafields and any more information available somewhere?
This information can be found in the sgra thal gyur.

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Aryjna
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Re: Only thirteen buddhafields?

Post by Aryjna » Mon Sep 24, 2018 6:00 pm

Malcolm wrote:
Mon Sep 24, 2018 5:12 pm
Aryjna wrote:
Mon Sep 24, 2018 7:10 am
Malcolm wrote:
Sun Sep 23, 2018 8:03 pm


There are thirteen buddhafields apart from this one where Dzogchen teachings may be found. This is the meaning. It is meant to point out how rare Dzogchen teachings are. Out of the countless buddhafields in the universe/s, there are only thirteen buddhafields that possess these teachings, and ours is one of them.
Are the names of these buddhafields and any more information available somewhere?
This information can be found in the sgra thal gyur.
Thanks, too bad it hasn't been translated yet.

Tenma
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Re: Only thirteen buddhafields?

Post by Tenma » Mon Sep 24, 2018 8:30 pm

jhanapeacock wrote:
Mon Sep 24, 2018 1:06 am
Tenma wrote:
Mon Sep 24, 2018 12:44 am
Malcolm wrote:
Sun Sep 23, 2018 8:03 pm


There are thirteen buddhafields apart from this one where Dzogchen teachings may be found. This is the meaning. It is meant to point out how rare Dzogchen teachings are. Out of the countless buddhafields in the universe/s, there are only thirteen buddhafields that possess these teachings, and ours is one of them.
How is this a Buddha Field? I thought we were in samsara? Not only that, but even if everything were a Buddha Field, how would there be a set number of Buddha Fields?
As i understand, there are nirmanakaya and sambhogakaya buddhafields, and they also can be impure or pure, Saha world is a nirmanakaya impure buddhafield, so is part of samsara, akanistha gandavyuha is a sambhogakaya pure buddhafield outside samsara.
How are Buddha Fields Impure? Shouldn't a Buddha/bodhisattva reside in it? Or is it just like earth that certain enlightened ones come and go and we still are impure just like that?

Sennin
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Re: Only thirteen buddhafields?

Post by Sennin » Tue Sep 25, 2018 12:45 am

Longchenpa explains that in the center of the sambhogakaya buddhas hand emblems, a lotus blossoms; going straight upwards with the arrangement of twenty five pure lands. And to the left and right covering their kayas there are inconceivable and innumerable pure lands, and beyond that manifesting inconceivably. From the hand emblem in the mudra of buddha Vairochana, right at the heart center of Vairocana is the thirteenth realm, Saha World/ Mijed Jigten. Since this realm is even with the heart of the buddha, corresponding to the enlighten mind; the Dzogchen doctrine will be propagated.

Also Tulku Urgyen Rinpoche gives this same explanation in page 3. of 'Wellsprings of the Great Perfection'.
"One should always recite mantra, purifying the body."
--Cakrasaṃvara Tantra

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