Realization of the Naga's practices

pemachophel
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Re: Realization of the Naga's practices

Post by pemachophel » Sun Oct 07, 2018 4:48 pm

????,

Sorry to hear about your mother's recent diagnosis of scleroderma. It is not that all skin diseases involve provocations (don) by Nagas. In Tibetan medicine, there are several main causes of disease: karma, imbalance in the elements and "humors", and spirit provocations. This is why a qualified Lama or Tibetan doctor is needed to diagnose if a particular person's skin disease is associated with Naga provocation. One of the ways to tell if there is such spirit provocation is that the disease, for no other apparent reason, does not respond to purely medical treatment. When such is the case, it may be due to spirit provocation causing the disease "on a different level" from purely imbalance of the elements and humors.

As for whether Nagas can only be offered Tibetan herbs, nowhere does it say that in the Tibetan literature. Yes, that literature stresses the herbs and woods that are available in the Himalayas since that's where the literature was written, but the descriptions of appropriate offerings in most Naga liturgies that I am familiar with are open-ended. In other words, they typically end with sog, "etc." So just because one doesn't have the specifically Himalayan herbs and woods listed doesn't mean one cannot make offerings to the Nagas. Even in the Himalayas, a certain named ingredient may be one species of plant or tree in one part of the Himalayas and different species in a different part of the Himalayas simply because that's what they have. As Chogyal Namkhai Norbu Rinpoche so often said, one has to work with one's circumstances.

The thing that cannot be offered to the Nagas are any herbs, woods, or medicines that are poisonous. Many of the offerings one makes in Naga puja are meant as medicines for particular diseases of the Nagas. The Nagas become angered at humans because of depredations to their environment which then causes them to be sick That's why they lash out. In peaceful Naga puja, we offer them medicines to help heal those diseases so that they become thankful and pleased with us.

Also, in typical Naga incense and powdered sang mixtures, there are not only medicinal herbs and woods but also a whole variety of other pleasing substances, such as the three whites and three sweets (milk, yogurt, butter, sugar, molasses, and honey), precious metals, powdered jewels, common culinary herbs and spices, such as the six excellents (nutmeg, the two types of cardamon, etc.), every kind of grain, every kind of beans/pulse, every kind of nut and edible seed. All of these are available to you in Poland.

A student of mine has made Naga incense powder. It is surprising how many of the ingredients mentioned in Tibetan texts are available in the West either wild-crafted or commercially. In addition to those specified, you can also add any other fragrant, aromatic, healthy, healing local herbs, flowers, and leaves. When we do Naga sang here in Colorado, we include all the local varieties of juniper, cedar, spruce, and pine, Russian sage, echinacea, peppermint, spearmint, resin from local pine (ponderosa) that smells like butterscotch, yarrow, uva ursi, betony, Oregon graperoot, bee balm, lavender, mullein, red clover, white clover, chicory, wild plum, dandelion, shepherd's purse, rose hips, etc., etc., etc. Naga texts often just say wood from fruit trees. So what fruit trees do you have in Poland? We have apple, pear, apricot, peach, plum, cherry, and chokecherry. How about berries? We have raspberries, blackberries, gooseberries, blue berries, etc., etc. Naga texts also say birch, but we don't have birch in Colorado. What we do have plenty of is aspen, a close relative with the same medicinal properties. Naga texts say willow and weeping willow. Do you have these in Poland? Naga texts say "wood from shade trees." That certainly opens up a lot of possibilities: maple. alder, linden, elder, black walnut, etc. Also Naga texts often list amber as a pleasing offering and medicine for the Nagas. Poland is on the Baltic. You have amber, don't you? Naga texts also list silk fabrics and brocades. I'm sure you can get those in Poland.

In addition, although it is generally said that one should not offer any animal products, this is not entirely true. In many liturgies, the list of Naga medicines include conch, cuttlefish bone, garwhal claws (but alligator, caymen, or crocodile will do just fine), and snakeskin. What is a general rule in Sutra and Vajrayana Naga pujas is that the pujaris should refrain from meat, eggs, alcohol, garlic, onions, and asafoetida on the day of the puja until after the puja is completed. Also it is very important to avoid musk. Musk is a very specific poison for Nagas. (In wrathful, subjucatory Naga pujas, the pujaris actually anoint themselves with musk oil.)

So anyway, don't worry about the specifically Himalayan offerings. If one has access to any of them, great. If not, no problem.

Good luck & best wishes, and, once again, in my opinion, if you want to do Naga puja, apprentice yourself to a Tibetan Lama who can teach you how to do this safely and effectively.
Pema Chophel པདྨ་ཆོས་འཕེལ

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????
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Re: Realization of the Naga's practices

Post by ???? » Sun Oct 07, 2018 5:40 pm

pemachophel wrote:
Sun Oct 07, 2018 4:48 pm
It is not that all skin diseases involve provocations (don) by Nagas. In Tibetan medicine, there are several main causes of disease: karma, imbalance in the elements and "humors", and spirit provocations. This is why a qualified Lama or Tibetan doctor is needed to diagnose if a particular person's skin disease is associated with Naga provocation.
I know :) but in my village there is no one like that,I do not know anyone like that.

If someone on forum can do this
or knows someone who could do it, please contact me :)
"Does it hurt being dead"??All beings are too dead to die

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Mantrik
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Re: Realization of the Naga's practices

Post by Mantrik » Sun Oct 07, 2018 8:32 pm

???? wrote:
Sun Oct 07, 2018 5:40 pm
pemachophel wrote:
Sun Oct 07, 2018 4:48 pm
It is not that all skin diseases involve provocations (don) by Nagas. In Tibetan medicine, there are several main causes of disease: karma, imbalance in the elements and "humors", and spirit provocations. This is why a qualified Lama or Tibetan doctor is needed to diagnose if a particular person's skin disease is associated with Naga provocation.
I know :) but in my village there is no one like that,I do not know anyone like that.

If someone on forum can do this
or knows someone who could do it, please contact me :)
There are qualified practitioners such as Malcolm who are members of the Dzogchen Community of Namkhai Norbu. However, if the doctor would need to see the patient in person, you may find that such practitioners do visit your area from time to time.

As you have already received a transmission from a qualified Master, I would first of all seek guidance from one of his senior disciples. It is not acceptable, in my view, for someone else to dismiss that Master's transmission and advise you to seek another, nameless, Guru. That is actually pretty disgraceful behaviour from anyone in Vajrayana.
Last edited by Mantrik on Sun Oct 07, 2018 9:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Om Thathpurushaya Vidhmahe
Suvarna Pakshaya Dheemahe
Thanno Garuda Prachodayath

Micchāmi Dukkaḍaṃ (मिच्छामि दुक्कडम्)

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Mantrik
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Re: Realization of the Naga's practices

Post by Mantrik » Sun Oct 07, 2018 8:39 pm

pemachophel wrote:
Sun Oct 07, 2018 4:48 pm
Good luck & best wishes, and, once again, in my opinion, if you want to do Naga puja, apprentice yourself to a Tibetan Lama who can teach you how to do this safely and effectively.
So, the call for peace surrounding ChNN's death is a good excuse to advise people, if he is not their 'Root Guru' (sic), to dump his transmission and seek a different Guru - a 'Tibetan', so no DC senior disciples or Western Lamas are apparently capable. The OP clearly needs stability and support.

You have no idea what Guruyoga and samaya mean in this context if you deliver such advice.

You call ChNN 'iconoclastic' - do you know what it means?

I'm sure you mean well, but this is crass and insulting, and ridiculous in the light of your own training.
http://www.khyung.com

Om Thathpurushaya Vidhmahe
Suvarna Pakshaya Dheemahe
Thanno Garuda Prachodayath

Micchāmi Dukkaḍaṃ (मिच्छामि दुक्कडम्)

pemachophel
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Re: Realization of the Naga's practices

Post by pemachophel » Sun Oct 07, 2018 9:30 pm

Sorry you find this crass and insulting. It was not meant to be that way.

Are you saying that there's no need to seek any further training or clarification for a practice that is potentially dangerous and which ChNNR has even said is so?

If that training can happen within the DC, that's great. Or what about other Lamas in Nyagla Jangchub Dorje's lineage? You do know that These exist, right?

ChNNR Himself has said that it's fine to take teachings from other Teachers. I've never heard Him say or read anything He has written that one can only practice "DC" practices and teachings. In fact, I've heard Him say just the opposite, telling people to continue on with their current Teachers and practices but incorporating the Dzogchen View. Look at how many Teachers He himself had from at least three different schools. Extending one's learning and practice with other Teachers is standard practice within Vajrayana/Dzogchen, especially when one's primary Teacher is not available for whatever reason. Doing so does not in any way diminish one's connection to one's Root Guru unless one has actually broken samaya with that Guru. That's why we even have the terms Mula-guru (Root Guru) and Upa-guru (secondary Guru/s).
Pema Chophel པདྨ་ཆོས་འཕེལ

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