Dzogchen Community - Arya Tara Practice Question

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Sukhamrita
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Dzogchen Community - Arya Tara Practice Question

Post by Sukhamrita »

Hi dear Dharma brothers/sisters.
Well I have a concrete question about the Practice and it is about the color of the mantra that circles around the seed syllable while doing Anuyoga transformation.
I have this doubt because I never heard Rinpoche saying anything about the color of the mantra so, I've visualized the mantra in green. But I've read the booklet of 'Guru Arya Tara and her twenty one praises' and there's a note saying it's red.
Not only that, but I received transmission from Lama Tsultrim Allione of the Green Tara practice of Adzom Drukpa (which is supposedly the same source of Rinpoche's transmission) and she says it's green.
So I'm confused. Can anyone help me? Has anyone asked this before to Rinpoche himself?
Thanks in advance.
Sukha
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heart
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Re: Dzogchen Community - Arya Tara Practice Question

Post by heart »

Sukhamrita wrote: Sat Oct 27, 2018 5:05 am Hi dear Dharma brothers/sisters.
Well I have a concrete question about the Practice and it is about the color of the mantra that circles around the seed syllable while doing Anuyoga transformation.
I have this doubt because I never heard Rinpoche saying anything about the color of the mantra so, I've visualized the mantra in green. But I've read the booklet of 'Guru Arya Tara and her twenty one praises' and there's a note saying it's red.
Not only that, but I received transmission from Lama Tsultrim Allione of the Green Tara practice of Adzom Drukpa (which is supposedly the same source of Rinpoche's transmission) and she says it's green.
So I'm confused. Can anyone help me? Has anyone asked this before to Rinpoche himself?
Thanks in advance.
Sukha
Please don't be confused, it is not helpful in Vajrayana practice. Use the instruction that makes more sense to you and eventually, if you do a lot of practice, you might gain the realisation that it could be both green and red or that it doesn't matter. When we are faced with what seems like contradictions in Vajrayana the only thing that matters is to make up are own mind. At least that is my own experience.

/magnus
"We are all here to help each other go through this thing, whatever it is."
~Kurt Vonnegut

"The principal practice is Guruyoga. But we need to understand that any secondary practice combined with Guruyoga becomes a principal practice." ChNNR (Teachings on Thun and Ganapuja)
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Mantrik
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Re: Dzogchen Community - Arya Tara Practice Question

Post by Mantrik »

PM sent.
If you have DI and the mantra lung from ChNN then you can download the pdf book he wrote, which is very detailed and clear on this aspect.
If you only have the transmission from Lama Tsultrim I'd stick with what she gave.
I'd also agree that it is important to relax and respond to the way Tara manifests to you.
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Re: Dzogchen Community - Arya Tara Practice Question

Post by Virgo »

What you are practicing is Adzom Drugpa's. In different sadhanas it may be different colors.

Kevin...
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Sukhamrita
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Re: Dzogchen Community - Arya Tara Practice Question

Post by Sukhamrita »

heart wrote: Sat Oct 27, 2018 8:47 am Please don't be confused, it is not helpful in Vajrayana practice. Use the instruction that makes more sense to you and eventually, if you do a lot of practice, you might gain the realisation that it could be both green and red or that it doesn't matter. When we are faced with what seems like contradictions in Vajrayana the only thing that matters is to make up are own mind. At least that is my own experience.

/magnus
Mantrik wrote: Sat Oct 27, 2018 9:14 am PM sent.
If you have DI and the mantra lung from ChNN then you can download the pdf book he wrote, which is very detailed and clear on this aspect.
If you only have the transmission from Lama Tsultrim I'd stick with what she gave.
I'd also agree that it is important to relax and respond to the way Tara manifests to you.
My confusion arised because I have both transmissions. But I'm gonna relax and let it be as it naturally suits me better.
Thank you both for your answers.
Sukha
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Re: Dzogchen Community - Arya Tara Practice Question

Post by jet.urgyen »

Sukhamrita wrote: Sat Oct 27, 2018 5:05 am Hi dear Dharma brothers/sisters.
Well I have a concrete question about the Practice and it is about the color of the mantra that circles around the seed syllable while doing Anuyoga transformation.
I have this doubt because I never heard Rinpoche saying anything about the color of the mantra so, I've visualized the mantra in green. But I've read the booklet of 'Guru Arya Tara and her twenty one praises' and there's a note saying it's red.
Not only that, but I received transmission from Lama Tsultrim Allione of the Green Tara practice of Adzom Drukpa (which is supposedly the same source of Rinpoche's transmission) and she says it's green.
So I'm confused. Can anyone help me? Has anyone asked this before to Rinpoche himself?
Thanks in advance.
Sukha
extrpolating from the other descriptions in ChNN transmissions i have seen, i have always visualized it in the same green color as Arya Tara.

I haven't experiencied any kind of problem.
true dharma is inexpressible.

The bodhisattva nourishes from bodhicitta, through whatever method the Buddha has given him. Oh joy.
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Re: Dzogchen Community - Arya Tara Practice Question

Post by Moha »

It is not necessary to visualise the mantra. This is explained by ChNNR on page 88 (second paragraph) of the Tara practice book.
oldbob
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Re: Dzogchen Community - Arya Tara Practice Question

Post by oldbob »

heart wrote: Sat Oct 27, 2018 8:47 am
Sukhamrita wrote: Sat Oct 27, 2018 5:05 am Hi dear Dharma brothers/sisters.
Well I have a concrete question about the Practice and it is about the color of the mantra that circles around the seed syllable while doing Anuyoga transformation.
I have this doubt because I never heard Rinpoche saying anything about the color of the mantra so, I've visualized the mantra in green. But I've read the booklet of 'Guru Arya Tara and her twenty one praises' and there's a note saying it's red.
Not only that, but I received transmission from Lama Tsultrim Allione of the Green Tara practice of Adzom Drukpa (which is supposedly the same source of Rinpoche's transmission) and she says it's green.
So I'm confused. Can anyone help me? Has anyone asked this before to Rinpoche himself?
Thanks in advance.
Sukha
Please don't be confused, it is not helpful in Vajrayana practice. Use the instruction that makes more sense to you and eventually, if you do a lot of practice, you might gain the realisation that it could be both green and red or that it doesn't matter. When we are faced with what seems like contradictions in Vajrayana the only thing that matters is to make up are own mind. At least that is my own experience.

/magnus
Yes, this is my experience too.

Excellent posts all, but Magnus is going beyond the color issue to explain a principle behind practice. Maybe this is really more valuable because if you ever find yourself stranded on a desert Island, or wandering in the bardo :alien: then just deciding and trying things to see what works, becomes VERY important. Doing the practice and getting the benefit is the key point. I am not saying it doesn't matter what the color is, just that if you don't know, also from my experience, there is no problem with the protectors, or anyone else, if you try something to see if it works. My default color is a bright, shining to the ends of the universe, rainbow swirl of 5 colors, or bright, shining to the ends of the universe, golden white light. It's easier to remember and always works for me. Please remember that I am not/ not a teacher and so it is always important to do things exactly as your teacher tells you to. :bow: :bow: :bow: to all teachers.

I have asked several high lamas if all "creative visualization" / absorption" practices, in principle, are the same and they each said, "Yes."

And all this leads to the Chili - chiliaya story but that is another day. (Someone else can go ahead and tell it, as I am tired.)

Oh, and by the way, in, "The Yoga of Green Tara," Explanation and Commentary by Yuchen Namkhai and Costantino Albini, P32-L2, the color of the mantra is red. The preface states: "I would like to thank our precious master from the bottom of my heart for allowing us to enter into his pure lineage through the transmission of this practice. He first received the transmission of Green Tara from his uncle, Togden Ugyen, Tendzin, who manifested the rainbow body; and later on from Ayu Khandro Dorje Paldron, considered an incarnation of Vajrayogini."

We await their next offering with sincere respect and anticipation. :applause: :applause: :applause: This is a must have book.

So now you know the color of the Green Tara mantra according to the teachings of ChNNR, AND a very helpful principle of the teachings provided by Magnus. :thanks: : when all else fails, trust your best mind and try things to see what works and what doesn't.

:heart:
Tata1
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Re: Dzogchen Community - Arya Tara Practice Question

Post by Tata1 »

oldbob wrote: Mon Oct 29, 2018 4:23 pm
heart wrote: Sat Oct 27, 2018 8:47 am
Sukhamrita wrote: Sat Oct 27, 2018 5:05 am Hi dear Dharma brothers/sisters.
Well I have a concrete question about the Practice and it is about the color of the mantra that circles around the seed syllable while doing Anuyoga transformation.
I have this doubt because I never heard Rinpoche saying anything about the color of the mantra so, I've visualized the mantra in green. But I've read the booklet of 'Guru Arya Tara and her twenty one praises' and there's a note saying it's red.
Not only that, but I received transmission from Lama Tsultrim Allione of the Green Tara practice of Adzom Drukpa (which is supposedly the same source of Rinpoche's transmission) and she says it's green.
So I'm confused. Can anyone help me? Has anyone asked this before to Rinpoche himself?
Thanks in advance.
Sukha
Please don't be confused, it is not helpful in Vajrayana practice. Use the instruction that makes more sense to you and eventually, if you do a lot of practice, you might gain the realisation that it could be both green and red or that it doesn't matter. When we are faced with what seems like contradictions in Vajrayana the only thing that matters is to make up are own mind. At least that is my own experience.

/magnus
Yes, this is my experience too.

Excellent posts all, but Magnus is going beyond the color issue to explain a principle behind practice. Maybe this is really more valuable because if you ever find yourself stranded on a desert Island, or wandering in the bardo :alien: then just deciding and trying things to see what works, becomes VERY important. Doing the practice and getting the benefit is the key point. I am not saying it doesn't matter what the color is, just that if you don't know, also from my experience, there is no problem with the protectors, or anyone else, if you try something to see if it works. My default color is a bright, shining to the ends of the universe, rainbow swirl of 5 colors, or bright, shining to the ends of the universe, golden white light. It's easier to remember and always works for me. Please remember that I am not/ not a teacher and so it is always important to do things exactly as your teacher tells you to. :bow: :bow: :bow: to all teachers.

I have asked several high lamas if all "creative visualization" / absorption" practices, in principle, are the same and they each said, "Yes."

And all this leads to the Chili - chiliaya story but that is another day. (Someone else can go ahead and tell it, as I am tired.)

Oh, and by the way, in, "The Yoga of Green Tara," Explanation and Commentary by Yuchen Namkhai and Costantino Albini, P32-L2, the color of the mantra is red. The preface states: "I would like to thank our precious master from the bottom of my heart for allowing us to enter into his pure lineage through the transmission of this practice. He first received the transmission of Green Tara from his uncle, Togden Ugyen, Tendzin, who manifested the rainbow body; and later on from Ayu Khandro Dorje Paldron, considered an incarnation of Vajrayogini."

We await their next offering with sincere respect and anticipation. :applause: :applause: :applause: This is a must have book.

So now you know the color of the Green Tara mantra according to the teachings of ChNNR, AND a very helpful principle of the teachings provided by Magnus. :thanks: : when all else fails, trust your best mind and try things to see what works and what doesn't.

:heart:8
Is there any chance someone can send me that commentary? :twothumbsup:
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heart
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Re: Dzogchen Community - Arya Tara Practice Question

Post by heart »

Tata1 wrote: Tue Oct 30, 2018 5:54 pm
oldbob wrote: Mon Oct 29, 2018 4:23 pm
heart wrote: Sat Oct 27, 2018 8:47 am

Please don't be confused, it is not helpful in Vajrayana practice. Use the instruction that makes more sense to you and eventually, if you do a lot of practice, you might gain the realisation that it could be both green and red or that it doesn't matter. When we are faced with what seems like contradictions in Vajrayana the only thing that matters is to make up are own mind. At least that is my own experience.

/magnus
Yes, this is my experience too.

Excellent posts all, but Magnus is going beyond the color issue to explain a principle behind practice. Maybe this is really more valuable because if you ever find yourself stranded on a desert Island, or wandering in the bardo :alien: then just deciding and trying things to see what works, becomes VERY important. Doing the practice and getting the benefit is the key point. I am not saying it doesn't matter what the color is, just that if you don't know, also from my experience, there is no problem with the protectors, or anyone else, if you try something to see if it works. My default color is a bright, shining to the ends of the universe, rainbow swirl of 5 colors, or bright, shining to the ends of the universe, golden white light. It's easier to remember and always works for me. Please remember that I am not/ not a teacher and so it is always important to do things exactly as your teacher tells you to. :bow: :bow: :bow: to all teachers.

I have asked several high lamas if all "creative visualization" / absorption" practices, in principle, are the same and they each said, "Yes."

And all this leads to the Chili - chiliaya story but that is another day. (Someone else can go ahead and tell it, as I am tired.)

Oh, and by the way, in, "The Yoga of Green Tara," Explanation and Commentary by Yuchen Namkhai and Costantino Albini, P32-L2, the color of the mantra is red. The preface states: "I would like to thank our precious master from the bottom of my heart for allowing us to enter into his pure lineage through the transmission of this practice. He first received the transmission of Green Tara from his uncle, Togden Ugyen, Tendzin, who manifested the rainbow body; and later on from Ayu Khandro Dorje Paldron, considered an incarnation of Vajrayogini."

We await their next offering with sincere respect and anticipation. :applause: :applause: :applause: This is a must have book.

So now you know the color of the Green Tara mantra according to the teachings of ChNNR, AND a very helpful principle of the teachings provided by Magnus. :thanks: : when all else fails, trust your best mind and try things to see what works and what doesn't.

:heart:8
Is there any chance someone can send me that commentary? :twothumbsup:
You can buy it here: http://shangshung.org/store/index.php?m ... cts_id=904

/magnus
"We are all here to help each other go through this thing, whatever it is."
~Kurt Vonnegut

"The principal practice is Guruyoga. But we need to understand that any secondary practice combined with Guruyoga becomes a principal practice." ChNNR (Teachings on Thun and Ganapuja)
jet.urgyen
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Re: Dzogchen Community - Arya Tara Practice Question

Post by jet.urgyen »

Ignorant_Fool wrote: Mon Oct 29, 2018 10:39 am It is not necessary to visualise the mantra. This is explained by ChNNR on page 88 (second paragraph) of the Tara practice book.
cool :twothumbsup:
true dharma is inexpressible.

The bodhisattva nourishes from bodhicitta, through whatever method the Buddha has given him. Oh joy.
Tata1
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Joined: Fri Sep 28, 2018 3:57 pm

Re: Dzogchen Community - Arya Tara Practice Question

Post by Tata1 »

heart wrote: Tue Oct 30, 2018 6:05 pm
Tata1 wrote: Tue Oct 30, 2018 5:54 pm
oldbob wrote: Mon Oct 29, 2018 4:23 pm

Yes, this is my experience too.

Excellent posts all, but Magnus is going beyond the color issue to explain a principle behind practice. Maybe this is really more valuable because if you ever find yourself stranded on a desert Island, or wandering in the bardo :alien: then just deciding and trying things to see what works, becomes VERY important. Doing the practice and getting the benefit is the key point. I am not saying it doesn't matter what the color is, just that if you don't know, also from my experience, there is no problem with the protectors, or anyone else, if you try something to see if it works. My default color is a bright, shining to the ends of the universe, rainbow swirl of 5 colors, or bright, shining to the ends of the universe, golden white light. It's easier to remember and always works for me. Please remember that I am not/ not a teacher and so it is always important to do things exactly as your teacher tells you to. :bow: :bow: :bow: to all teachers.

I have asked several high lamas if all "creative visualization" / absorption" practices, in principle, are the same and they each said, "Yes."

And all this leads to the Chili - chiliaya story but that is another day. (Someone else can go ahead and tell it, as I am tired.)

Oh, and by the way, in, "The Yoga of Green Tara," Explanation and Commentary by Yuchen Namkhai and Costantino Albini, P32-L2, the color of the mantra is red. The preface states: "I would like to thank our precious master from the bottom of my heart for allowing us to enter into his pure lineage through the transmission of this practice. He first received the transmission of Green Tara from his uncle, Togden Ugyen, Tendzin, who manifested the rainbow body; and later on from Ayu Khandro Dorje Paldron, considered an incarnation of Vajrayogini."

We await their next offering with sincere respect and anticipation. :applause: :applause: :applause: This is a must have book.

So now you know the color of the Green Tara mantra according to the teachings of ChNNR, AND a very helpful principle of the teachings provided by Magnus. :thanks: : when all else fails, trust your best mind and try things to see what works and what doesn't.

:heart:8
Is there any chance someone can send me that commentary? :twothumbsup:
You can buy it here: http://shangshung.org/store/index.php?m ... cts_id=904

/magnus
Oh i thought it was a pdf. It seems it will have to wait. Im living in india now with no fixed home. I can only buy pdf or kindle.

I do hace Chnn comentary tho :)
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