Tigle Gyachen and Yeshe Lama

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Pema Rigdzin
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Tigle Gyachen and Yeshe Lama

Post by Pema Rigdzin » Wed Nov 14, 2018 10:01 am

I remember reading somewhere that Tigle Gyachen is connected with Yeshe Lama; can anyone elaborate on that a little? In particular, it’s my impression that TG has its own empowerment separate from those of YL, so I’m assuming that despite receiving YL one would still need to receive the TG wang separately, or at least the lung, in order to practice that sadhana. Is that so? Can anyone clarify the nature of the historical relationship between these two transmissions?

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Re: Tigle Gyachen and Yeshe Lama

Post by heart » Wed Nov 14, 2018 11:22 am

Pema Rigdzin wrote:
Wed Nov 14, 2018 10:01 am
I remember reading somewhere that Tigle Gyachen is connected with Yeshe Lama; can anyone elaborate on that a little? In particular, it’s my impression that TG has its own empowerment separate from those of YL, so I’m assuming that despite receiving YL one would still need to receive the TG wang separately, or at least the lung, in order to practice that sadhana. Is that so? Can anyone clarify the nature of the historical relationship between these two transmissions?
Well, in Khenpo Ngakchung's biography it is said that in order to do the practices in Yeshe Lama you need at least the Tigle Gyachen empowerment. Best is to get the "rigpai tsal wang" described in the Yesha Lama itself of course.

/magnus
"We are all here to help each other go through this thing, whatever it is."
~Kurt Vonnegut

"The principal practice is Guruyoga. But we need to understand that any secondary practice combined with Guruyoga becomes a principal practice." ChNNR (Teachings on Thun and Ganapuja)

Pema Rigdzin
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Re: Tigle Gyachen and Yeshe Lama

Post by Pema Rigdzin » Wed Nov 14, 2018 5:53 pm

Thanks, Magnus, but here I’m wondering if one got the opportunity to receive Yeshe Lama before. Tigle Gyachen, does Tigle Gyachen in fact have its own empowerment separate from the rigpai teal wang in Yeshe Lama? In other words, if one receives Yeshe Lama and then wants to practice Tigle Gyachen as one’s guru yoga, does one further have to receive the Tigle Gyachen empowerment to do so?

Malcolm
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Re: Tigle Gyachen and Yeshe Lama

Post by Malcolm » Wed Nov 14, 2018 7:31 pm

Pema Rigdzin wrote:
Wed Nov 14, 2018 5:53 pm
Thanks, Magnus, but here I’m wondering if one got the opportunity to receive Yeshe Lama before. Tigle Gyachen, does Tigle Gyachen in fact have its own empowerment separate from the rigpai teal wang in Yeshe Lama? In other words, if one receives Yeshe Lama and then wants to practice Tigle Gyachen as one’s guru yoga, does one further have to receive the Tigle Gyachen empowerment to do so?
Yes.
One needs at least the lung. Originally, Thigle Gyachen had no empowerment, but one was composed for it by Khyentse Wangpo.

Pema Rigdzin
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Re: Tigle Gyachen and Yeshe Lama

Post by Pema Rigdzin » Wed Nov 14, 2018 7:43 pm

Malcolm wrote:
Wed Nov 14, 2018 7:31 pm

Yes.
One needs at least the lung. Originally, Thigle Gyachen had no empowerment, but one was composed for it by Khyentse Wangpo.
Thanks, Malcolm. So if Tigle Gyachen originally had no empowerment, does that mean they originally relied on the rigpai tsal wang in Yeshe Lama for the empowerment?

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Re: Tigle Gyachen and Yeshe Lama

Post by Malcolm » Wed Nov 14, 2018 8:15 pm

Pema Rigdzin wrote:
Wed Nov 14, 2018 7:43 pm
Malcolm wrote:
Wed Nov 14, 2018 7:31 pm

Yes.
One needs at least the lung. Originally, Thigle Gyachen had no empowerment, but one was composed for it by Khyentse Wangpo.
Thanks, Malcolm. So if Tigle Gyachen originally had no empowerment, does that mean they originally relied on the rigpai tsal wang in Yeshe Lama for the empowerment?
I am not sure.

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Josef
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Re: Tigle Gyachen and Yeshe Lama

Post by Josef » Mon Jan 21, 2019 5:59 pm

Pema Rigdzin wrote:
Wed Nov 14, 2018 7:43 pm
Malcolm wrote:
Wed Nov 14, 2018 7:31 pm

Yes.
One needs at least the lung. Originally, Thigle Gyachen had no empowerment, but one was composed for it by Khyentse Wangpo.
Thanks, Malcolm. So if Tigle Gyachen originally had no empowerment, does that mean they originally relied on the rigpai tsal wang in Yeshe Lama for the empowerment?
Khyentse Wangpo's empowerment may have been composed to isolate Thigle Gyachen from the Yeshe Lama in order to transmit it separately for students that may not be ready for the instructions in the YL.
Kye ma!
The river of continuity is marked by impermanence.
Ceaseless flowing of appearance.
Beautiful and repulsive.
The dance of life and death is a display of the vast expanse.
With gratitude the watcher and the watched pass through the barrier of duality.

yeshegyaltsen
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Re: Tigle Gyachen and Yeshe Lama

Post by yeshegyaltsen » Thu Jan 24, 2019 10:05 pm

Josef wrote:
Mon Jan 21, 2019 5:59 pm
Pema Rigdzin wrote:
Wed Nov 14, 2018 7:43 pm
Malcolm wrote:
Wed Nov 14, 2018 7:31 pm

Yes.
One needs at least the lung. Originally, Thigle Gyachen had no empowerment, but one was composed for it by Khyentse Wangpo.
Thanks, Malcolm. So if Tigle Gyachen originally had no empowerment, does that mean they originally relied on the rigpai tsal wang in Yeshe Lama for the empowerment?
Khyentse Wangpo's empowerment may have been composed to isolate Thigle Gyachen from the Yeshe Lama in order to transmit it separately for students that may not be ready for the instructions in the YL.
Not sure why you would make this assumption. I'm also not sure that Khyentse Wangpo wrote an empowerment manual either. He did add to the treasure after having visions related to it and penned several works. However, the only empowerments I know of come from 15th Karmapa, which is based on a work by the first Dodrupchen. And then Dilgo Khyentse wrote a longer version which can be found in his collected works.

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Josef
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Re: Tigle Gyachen and Yeshe Lama

Post by Josef » Fri Jan 25, 2019 1:44 am

yeshegyaltsen wrote:
Thu Jan 24, 2019 10:05 pm
Josef wrote:
Mon Jan 21, 2019 5:59 pm
Pema Rigdzin wrote:
Wed Nov 14, 2018 7:43 pm


Thanks, Malcolm. So if Tigle Gyachen originally had no empowerment, does that mean they originally relied on the rigpai tsal wang in Yeshe Lama for the empowerment?
Khyentse Wangpo's empowerment may have been composed to isolate Thigle Gyachen from the Yeshe Lama in order to transmit it separately for students that may not be ready for the instructions in the YL.
Not sure why you would make this assumption. I'm also not sure that Khyentse Wangpo wrote an empowerment manual either. He did add to the treasure after having visions related to it and penned several works. However, the only empowerments I know of come from 15th Karmapa, which is based on a work by the first Dodrupchen. And then Dilgo Khyentse wrote a longer version which can be found in his collected works.
It's not an assumption, it's more of a hypothesis and a way of engaging in further discussion on the topic, hence the "may have".
It is interesting to discuss why certain practices that were at one time connected to different empowerments may have evolved and what the necessity of that evolution could be.
So, check those assumptions.
Kye ma!
The river of continuity is marked by impermanence.
Ceaseless flowing of appearance.
Beautiful and repulsive.
The dance of life and death is a display of the vast expanse.
With gratitude the watcher and the watched pass through the barrier of duality.

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