Backwards Ati

[passel]

https://convertkit.s3.amazonaws.com/ass ... =335350741

TGS means thamal gyi shepa.

[treehuggingoctopus]

Again, Trungpa Rinpoche gave his students TGS transmission when we entered into the vajrayāna, and therefore his students would usually be on an emotional roller coaster throughout the four ngöndro practices. I think that’s because of the disruptive quality of the TGS transmission itself

Guru yoga brings claustrophobic experience of TGS. It’s like constant open-heart surgery without anesthetics. Trungpa Rinpoche described guru yoga as a form of rape: you’re being raped by the lineage and the guru. It’s “rape” because you’re helpless: you can’t protect or defend yourself. Because of the practices you’ve done and your relationship with your teacher, your egocentric defense mechanisms don’t function in their usual way anymore.

Not sure what Trungpa taught (if this indeed is a fair description in any way) or what the author of these words learned. It sure as hell is not what my teachers have taught, if I have understood anything.

[Könchok Thrinley]

Describing GuruYoga as a rape is bit too much. We begin to engage in guru yoga by our own volition, rape on the other hand ...
Plus quite frankly to be on an emotional rollercoaster one does not need any sort transmission at all. It is enough to go to see one's family on Christmas or just live in general.

[Konchog Thogme Jampa]

Guru Yoga is about experiencing Nature of Mind

[Lingpupa]

Say anything about Trungpa's teaching (or supposed teaching)? No, I'll bite my tongue.

[Natan]

It’s important to remember guru talk is very time, place, and audience context dependent. We don’t know whose confusion he was poking at.

[Silent Bob1]

Trungpa Rinpoche said many things that were cryptic, veiled, or poetic. Many students found this appealing, others not so much. Personally, I learned most of what I know about dharma from the straightforward, traditional presentations of Thrangu Rinpoche and others, while much of CTR's verbal flights of fancy flew right past me.

[passel]

"Part Lies, Part Heart, Part Truth, Part Garbage "

[TrimePema]

Again, Trungpa Rinpoche gave his students TGS transmission when we entered into the vajrayāna, and therefore his students would usually be on an emotional roller coaster throughout the four ngöndro practices. I think that’s because of the disruptive quality of the TGS transmission itself

Guru yoga brings claustrophobic experience of TGS. It’s like constant open-heart surgery without anesthetics. Trungpa Rinpoche described guru yoga as a form of rape: you’re being raped by the lineage and the guru. It’s “rape” because you’re helpless: you can’t protect or defend yourself. Because of the practices you’ve done and your relationship with your teacher, your egocentric defense mechanisms don’t function in their usual way anymore.

Not sure what Trungpa taught (if this indeed is a fair description in any way) or what the author of these words learned. It sure as hell is not what my teachers have taught, if I have understood anything.

He seems to be referring to the notion of Guru Yoga being unstoppable. He's speaking about the Mahaguru, at the essence of this. It's not about the person who you consider the Guru... Once you contact bodhichitta your mindstream is changed forever. There is no longer a choice about anything. While I'm sure the metaphor can be changed and the transmission the same... in this instance he used the imagery of choicelessness for your ego being like your ego being raped by wakeful compassion.

TGS is only an emotional rollercoaster if one forgets the instructions...

[Malcolm]

Again, Trungpa Rinpoche gave his students TGS transmission when we entered into the vajrayāna, and therefore his students would usually be on an emotional roller coaster throughout the four ngöndro practices. I think that’s because of the disruptive quality of the TGS transmission itself

Guru yoga brings claustrophobic experience of TGS. It’s like constant open-heart surgery without anesthetics. Trungpa Rinpoche described guru yoga as a form of rape: you’re being raped by the lineage and the guru. It’s “rape” because you’re helpless: you can’t protect or defend yourself. Because of the practices you’ve done and your relationship with your teacher, your egocentric defense mechanisms don’t function in their usual way anymore.

Not sure what Trungpa taught (if this indeed is a fair description in any way) or what the author of these words learned. It sure as hell is not what my teachers have taught, if I have understood anything.

He seems to be referring to the notion of Guru Yoga being unstoppable. He's speaking about the Mahaguru, at the essence of this. It's not about the person who you consider the Guru... Once you contact bodhichitta your mindstream is changed forever. There is no longer a choice about anything. While I'm sure the metaphor can be changed and the transmission the same... in this instance he used the imagery of choicelessness for your ego being like your ego being raped by wakeful compassion.

TGS is only an emotional rollercoaster if one forgets the instructions...

It is a stupid metaphor.

[Karma Dorje]

It is a stupid metaphor.

Not only a stupid metaphor, but a dangerous one as we now have decades of experience to attest to.

[lelopa]

................
We don’t know whose confusion he was poking at.

His own?!?

[Karma Dorje]

It’s important to remember guru talk is very time, place, and audience context dependent. We don’t know whose confusion he was poking at.

Or who he was poking at the time.

[Natan]

Let’s not mock

[Karma Dorje]

Let’s not mock

Hey, if you can't mock dead lamas, who can you mock?

[treehuggingoctopus]

He seems to be referring to the notion of Guru Yoga being unstoppable. He's speaking about the Mahaguru, at the essence of this. It's not about the person who you consider the Guru... Once you contact bodhichitta your mindstream is changed forever. There is no longer a choice about anything. While I'm sure the metaphor can be changed and the transmission the same... in this instance he used the imagery of choicelessness for your ego being like your ego being raped by wakeful compassion.

TGS is only an emotional rollercoaster if one forgets the instructions...

In order to parse it like that not only did you have to fill in lots of blanks, your reading (its very last sentence) also had to literally contradict what the author wrote.

I strongly disagree that you can use whatever metaphor you want and the transmission will still be the same. A guru chooses a metaphor so that the transmission can take place -- and in order for it to happen it has to be the right metaphor for the given student at the given time. Sure. That said, if you listen to teachers teach or read accounts of how they have taught, there is a remarkable consistency there. There is room for variation, of course, but the variation is pretty much always within certain boundaries.

And it is so for a good reason: To change a metaphor is to change what is pointed out -- it is to point out a different "thing." Trungpa's (alleged) talk about surgeries without anaesthetics, emotional rollercoasters, the supposedly claustrophobic nature of the experience of the ordinary mind and, creme de la creme, rape clearly points in entirely different directions than traditional metaphors do.

And his metaphors are mortally dangerous, too.

Were it not Buddhism, everybody here would be screaming blue murder.

[passel]

Let’s not mock

Hey, if you can't mock dead lamas, who can you mock?

Better to mock live ones maybe.

[climb-up]

Guru yoga brings claustrophobic experience of TGS. It’s like constant open-heart surgery without anesthetics. Trungpa Rinpoche described guru yoga as a form of rape: you’re being raped by the lineage and the guru. It’s “rape” because you’re helpless: you can’t protect or defend yourself. Because of the practices you’ve done and your relationship with your teacher, your egocentric defense mechanisms don’t function in their usual way anymore.

Ewww! What the actual Fu*%!?

In addition to being gross, in poor taste (at the vary least) and ...theres too much to even say... ...but additionally that doesn't even seem like an accurate, if gross, metaphor:
Of course you can 'protect' yourself, in this metaphor, you simply avoid the teachings, or don't go to an empowerment, or don't put what you've learned into practice.
In fact, it's probably a good idea to protect yourself from a teacher who uses a metaphor like this, by going to another teacher!

[Josef]

Guru yoga brings claustrophobic experience of TGS. It’s like constant open-heart surgery without anesthetics. Trungpa Rinpoche described guru yoga as a form of rape: you’re being raped by the lineage and the guru. It’s “rape” because you’re helpless: you can’t protect or defend yourself. Because of the practices you’ve done and your relationship with your teacher, your egocentric defense mechanisms don’t function in their usual way anymore.

Ewww! What the actual Fu*%!?

In addition to being gross, in poor taste (at the vary least) and ...theres too much to even say... ...but additionally that doesn't even seem like an accurate, if gross, metaphor:
Of course you can 'protect' yourself, in this metaphor, you simply avoid the teachings, or don't go to an empowerment, or don't put what you've learned into practice.
In fact, it's probably a good idea to protect yourself from a teacher who uses a metaphor like this, by going to another teacher!

Yes.

[Natan]

Let’s not mock

Hey, if you can't mock dead lamas, who can you mock?

Yourself