Tongue touching palate in Dzogchen?

[Oklahoma]

In Dzogchen meditation does the tongue have to touch the roof of the mouth, or does it simply not matter?
I won’t be able to see my lama for a while so I thought to ask here. I am kind of not paying too much attention to it for right now, just letting the tongue just do what feels right.

[heart]

In Dzogchen meditation does the tongue have to touch the roof of the mouth, or does it simply not matter?
I won’t be able to see my lama for a while so I thought to ask here. I am kind of not paying too much attention to it for right now, just letting the tongue just do what feels right.

It depends, there are many methods in Dzogchen.

/magnus

[Oklahoma]

In Dzogchen meditation does the tongue have to touch the roof of the mouth, or does it simply not matter?
I won’t be able to see my lama for a while so I thought to ask here. I am kind of not paying too much attention to it for right now, just letting the tongue just do what feels right.

It depends, there are many methods in Dzogchen.

/magnus

Trekchod

[heart]

In Dzogchen meditation does the tongue have to touch the roof of the mouth, or does it simply not matter?
I won’t be able to see my lama for a while so I thought to ask here. I am kind of not paying too much attention to it for right now, just letting the tongue just do what feels right.

It depends, there are many methods in Dzogchen.

/magnus

Trekchod

Normally not, but I think it might vary depending on the teacher.

/magnus

[passel]

Sometime you hear: tongue floating between the jaw and palate, touching neither, lips slightly open

[Oklahoma]

Thanks everyone for your replies

[kalden yungdrung]

In Dzogchen meditation does the tongue have to touch the roof of the mouth, or does it simply not matter?
I won’t be able to see my lama for a while so I thought to ask here. I am kind of not paying too much attention to it for right now, just letting the tongue just do what feels right.

As far as i know the mouth is slightly opened, lips opened a little and tongue rests in its neutral position.
The face is one relaxed area without the slightest tension etc.

Tongue up against the palate blocks the flow out via the mouth and is mostly used in Tantra Yoga regarding the internal channels etc.

Typical of Dzogchen meditation is this opened mouth which opens a little during Dzogchen practise.
Have never heard until now that a Dzogchenpa has a closed mouth during his/her practise.

[jet.urgyen]

In Dzogchen meditation does the tongue have to touch the roof of the mouth, or does it simply not matter?
I won’t be able to see my lama for a while so I thought to ask here. I am kind of not paying too much attention to it for right now, just letting the tongue just do what feels right.

it depends on wich dzogchen meditation you are practicing. it matters.

[catmoon]

I have always followed the practice of placing the tip of the tongue at the place where the gums and front teeth meet. I was originally told that this helps to get the winds flowing the right way, but I really don't know about that. What i have noticed it that it cuts down on mouth breathing, helps prevent a dry mouth, which can be a distraction, and helps bring concentration to a focus smoothly and gently. And it's a pain in the butt if you have a cold.

I'm nowhere near dzogchen practice but I think the practice of placing the tongue is more generally sound.

[kalden yungdrung]

I have always followed the practice of placing the tip of the tongue at the place where the gums and front teeth meet. I was originally told that this helps to get the winds flowing the right way, but I really don't know about that. What i have noticed it that it cuts down on mouth breathing, helps prevent a dry mouth, which can be a distraction, and helps bring concentration to a focus smoothly and gently. And it's a pain in the butt if you have a cold.

I'm nowhere near dzogchen practice but I think the practice of placing the tongue is more generally sound.

If you do Tsalung Trulkor related to Dzogchen then it may happen that the tongue closes the flow out of air.

- In Dzogchen "meditation" there is no use of special place / position of the tongue etc. , and if, then that happened in those "preliminaries".
In Dzogchen meditation there are only the 6 Yoga postures which one can use to get some visions better running, but also here no special position of the tongue as far as i know

So Yoga related as preliminary for Dzogchen meditation which is no meditation, there one can find maybe the tongue placed upwards.......

[jet.urgyen]

I have always followed the practice of placing the tip of the tongue at the place where the gums and front teeth meet. I was originally told that this helps to get the winds flowing the right way, but I really don't know about that. What i have noticed it that it cuts down on mouth breathing, helps prevent a dry mouth, which can be a distraction, and helps bring concentration to a focus smoothly and gently. And it's a pain in the butt if you have a cold.

I'm nowhere near dzogchen practice but I think the practice of placing the tongue is more generally sound.

If you do Tsalung Trulkor related to Dzogchen then it may happen that the tongue closes the flow out of air.

- In Dzogchen "meditation" there is no use of special place / position of the tongue etc. , and if, then that happened in those "preliminaries".
In Dzogchen meditation there are only the 6 Yoga postures which one can use to get some visions better running, but also here no special position of the tongue as far as i know

So Yoga related as preliminary for Dzogchen meditation which is no meditation, there one can find maybe the tongue placed upwards.......

you are wrong. there is specific use in main practices of semsde and in longde, for example.

the no-meditation thing isn't at all a preliminary thing.

[kalden yungdrung]

I have always followed the practice of placing the tip of the tongue at the place where the gums and front teeth meet. I was originally told that this helps to get the winds flowing the right way, but I really don't know about that. What i have noticed it that it cuts down on mouth breathing, helps prevent a dry mouth, which can be a distraction, and helps bring concentration to a focus smoothly and gently. And it's a pain in the butt if you have a cold.

I'm nowhere near dzogchen practice but I think the practice of placing the tongue is more generally sound.

If you do Tsalung Trulkor related to Dzogchen then it may happen that the tongue closes the flow out of air.

- In Dzogchen "meditation" there is no use of special place / position of the tongue etc. , and if, then that happened in those "preliminaries".
In Dzogchen meditation there are only the 6 Yoga postures which one can use to get some visions better running, but also here no special position of the tongue as far as i know

So Yoga related as preliminary for Dzogchen meditation which is no meditation, there one can find maybe the tongue placed upwards.......

you are wrong. there is specific use in main practices of semsde and in longde, for example.

the no-meditation thing isn't at all a preliminary thing.

Well, wrong is a big thing here.

In Bön Dzogchen this is never the case because in the practise of the Natural State there is no position of the tongue.
This is clear everywhere written, it is like that in Bön Dzogchen.
Maybe Bön Dzogchen like ZZNG, is not so mixed up with Tantra , like in Nyingma is the case, can happen.

[Lee ireland]

In my experience, trekcho you don't need it, however the method of the tongue is useful for calming the winds along with specific breathing as a preparation to doing the meditation of recognition and stabilising the nature of the mind.

Trekcho is this continuation of this state, you abide in this state continuously or atleast as continuously as possible, otherwise if you say you use the tongue with trekcho that would mean that all through the time you abide in it you'd have to have the tongue in this position

[kalden yungdrung]

In my experience, trekcho you don't need it, however the method of the tongue is useful for calming the winds along with specific breathing as a preparation to doing the meditation of recognition and stabilising the nature of the mind.

Trekcho is this continuation of this state, you abide in this state continuously or atleast as continuously as possible, otherwise if you say you use the tongue with trekcho that would mean that all through the time you abide in it you'd have to have the tongue in this position

In Trekchöd , the State without thoughts it is also done
Thögal is the continuation of this State (Trekchöd)

But as soon we deal with Magyud Tantra and do visualisations etc. the tongue can be placed different.

Trekchöd and Thödgal are mere the motionless States even if we abide in a certain posture.

[Simon E.]

Sorry in advance.. .But I feel honour -bound to say it... Ask your teacher.
Write to her/him. Telephone her/him. Failing that ask one of her/his senior students.
Posing these type questions online, with all the best will in the world, is a surefire recipe for confusion.

[kalden yungdrung]

Sorry in advance.. .But I feel honour -bound to say it... Ask your teacher.
Write to her/him. Telephone her/him. Failing that ask one of her/his senior students.
Posing these type questions online, with all the best will in the world, is a surefire recipe for confusion.

For such an easy to answer question to ask the Master ?

This placing of the tongue in the neutral position is what the low level Dzogchenpa must know.
Its a basic in the Dzogchen practise.

But regarding all the topics here on DW, we could maybe better ask the Master, then we can close DW.
Guess there are here on DW only students ?

[jet.urgyen]

Sorry in advance.. .But I feel honour -bound to say it... Ask your teacher.
Write to her/him. Telephone her/him. Failing that ask one of her/his senior students.
Posing these type questions online, with all the best will in the world, is a surefire recipe for confusion.

For such an easy to answer question to ask the Master ?

This placing of the tongue in the neutral position is what the low level Dzogchenpa must know.
Its a basic in the Dzogchen practise.

But regarding all the topics here on DW, we could maybe better ask the Master, then we can close DW.
Guess there are here on DW only students ?

that might be true in bon dzogchen. in general it isn't true at all.

ok. i take my leave.

[kalden yungdrung]

Sorry in advance.. .But I feel honour -bound to say it... Ask your teacher.
Write to her/him. Telephone her/him. Failing that ask one of her/his senior students.
Posing these type questions online, with all the best will in the world, is a surefire recipe for confusion.

For such an easy to answer question to ask the Master ?

This placing of the tongue in the neutral position is what the low level Dzogchenpa must know.
Its a basic in the Dzogchen practise.

But regarding all the topics here on DW, we could maybe better ask the Master, then we can close DW.
Guess there are here on DW only students ?

that might be true in bon dzogchen. in general it isn't true at all.

ok. i take my leave.

What is true and not that is a very relative case.
But agree Vajrayana Samayas are very hard / tough, that must have a reason.

We live in the time of the count down due to climate change. 15 years and humanity is rigorous reduced, very sad.
Guess we should give up protective secrecy in these last days of humanity.
Open the tap of knowledge out of compassion.

[jet.urgyen]

For such an easy to answer question to ask the Master ?

This placing of the tongue in the neutral position is what the low level Dzogchenpa must know.
Its a basic in the Dzogchen practise.

But regarding all the topics here on DW, we could maybe better ask the Master, then we can close DW.
Guess there are here on DW only students ?

that might be true in bon dzogchen. in general it isn't true at all.

ok. i take my leave.

What is true and not that is a very relative case.
But agree Vajrayana Samayas are very hard / tough, that must have a reason.

We live in the time of the count down due to climate change. 15 years and humanity is rigorous reduced, very sad.
Guess we should give up protective secrecy in these last days of humanity.
Open the tap of knowledge out of compassion.

it is not good to give up secrecy. not good for you nor for your teacher.

[kalden yungdrung]

that might be true in bon dzogchen. in general it isn't true at all.

ok. i take my leave.

What is true and not that is a very relative case.
But agree Vajrayana Samayas are very hard / tough, that must have a reason.

We live in the time of the count down due to climate change. 15 years and humanity is rigorous reduced, very sad.
Guess we should give up protective secrecy in these last days of humanity.
Open the tap of knowledge out of compassion.

it is not good to give up secrecy. not good for you nor for your teacher.

My inner Guru does not have any problems with it and other Bönpos also not.
You Vajrayana boys make the hell out of the so called Samayas.
In Bön it is clearly stated that you can study and pre-read "secret" text, where after it you have to meet the Master for more.
Are we Bönpos Samaya violators because of that all ?
Do we end in the Vajra hell , because of that ?

See here an example:
viewtopic.php?f=78&t=31375

The author of the book Geashela A Sönam was very happy to see his book / index here appearing
Even you see the index of (secret) books as breaking Samayas, you are extreme to the top for me and others.