£$&^@ wrote: ↑
Thu Jun 13, 2019 12:39 pm
No, it is not “sure” at all that what is being suggested is “new age” Dzogchen. I know mainstream teachers who would endorse my interpretation of their words. And to dismiss them as ‘ new age’ teachers is to denigrate them. I wonder if we are seeing a linguistic issue here. I was present recently a teaching where Dzogchen Rinpoche made it clear that the essence remains unchanged but that we need sit lightly to historical claims. I think that applies right across the board in discussions about the Vajrayana. In these matters we have just about reached the stage of demythologising that went on in Christianity circa 1850.
Sure there are supporters of new age Dzogchen here aboard, no doubt about it, does not the matter who endorses that.
If we compare them to the actual Lineages in Nyingma and Bön, they are in the minority.
But ok, they can have a democratic based voice of contribution, no problem, but they should not stamp that as the general line / vision.
That does not mean that these Masters should be degenerated, but there are supporters of them and non supporters, like with everything is the case.
Historical claims are there enough in Tibet, a country of heavy persecutions and related bad karma.
So here we should not sit so lightly into the saddle, i guess so.
Proves are the Terma teachings which are as well in Bön and Nyingma well known.
Without these terma teachings we would have better Tibetan history like we know it in the west, nevertheless we have experienced equal happenings.
So we have many Bön termas due to bad Tibetan karma , so there are some gaps here and there and to fall into a gap of emptiness, that hurts.