Alan Wallace: Dzogchen, COVID-19 & the prophecy received by Dudjom Lingpa

[Karma_Yeshe]

Buddhism is the only religion I ever had, thanks to my parents. I don't see anyone practice even shamata in monotheistic religions so you would have to invent something new even on that level.

/magnus

You don't see because you choose not to see. Christianity has shamatha, mantra recitation as well as mindfulness-of-thoughts practices, and that's just the
public stuff. I am sure hardcore practitioners in the cloisters are working with more advanced practices. [Edit]


If you want to know more, you can research Hesychasm as the starting point.

Different basis, different path, different result. That's all there is to it. You are clearly coming from a perennialist perspective, to which you are entitled, but the idea that all religions lead to the same goal is just silly.

I'd like to add that they have a completly different source and a completly different way of dealing with their source.
I really don't get why people are so engaged in wishful-thinking of merging all kinds of paths into one.

KY

[Schrödinger’s Yidam]

Different basis, different path, different result. That's all there is to it. You are clearly coming from a perennialist perspective, to which you are entitled, but the idea that all religions lead to the same goal is just silly.

The last chapter of the Uttaratantra talks about how Buddha Activity happens without any discernment or effort. It simply happens wherever and whenever the karma of sentient beings allows for it to happen. Just like the sun has no intentions to light up the room when you open the shades, the Buddha Nature manifests in a way that is appropriate for the karma of a certain time and place. There’s absolutely no restriction on this activity as to affiliations. It is not a considered response to prescribed prayer, although I assume some prayer is usually in the mix of karma that allows the Activity to happen.

Personally I think the karma of Sakyamuni’s followers allowed for the most complete Path to be shown. That’s why i am exclusively a Buddhist. But I know and admit that’s just my own karmic perspective.

Something to consider.

[Malcolm]

Different basis, different path, different result. That's all there is to it. You are clearly coming from a perennialist perspective, to which you are entitled, but the idea that all religions lead to the same goal is just silly.

The last chapter of the Uttaratantra talks about how Buddha Activity happens without any discernment or effort. It simply happens wherever and whenever the karma of sentient beings allows for it to happen. Just like the sun has no intentions to light up the room when you open the shades, the Buddha Nature manifests in a way that is appropriate for the karma of a certain time and place. There’s absolutely no restriction on this activity as to affiliations. It is not a considered response to prescribed prayer, although I assume some prayer is usually in the mix of karma that allows the Activity to happen.

From this it does not follow that the paths of nonbuddhists lead out of samsara. In fact this idea is explicitly denied in all Buddha's teachings.

[Schrödinger’s Yidam]

Different basis, different path, different result. That's all there is to it. You are clearly coming from a perennialist perspective, to which you are entitled, but the idea that all religions lead to the same goal is just silly.

The last chapter of the Uttaratantra talks about how Buddha Activity happens without any discernment or effort. It simply happens wherever and whenever the karma of sentient beings allows for it to happen. Just like the sun has no intentions to light up the room when you open the shades, the Buddha Nature manifests in a way that is appropriate for the karma of a certain time and place. There’s absolutely no restriction on this activity as to affiliations. It is not a considered response to prescribed prayer, although I assume some prayer is usually in the mix of karma that allows the Activity to happen.

From this it does not follow that the paths of nonbuddhists lead out of samsara. In fact this idea is explicitly denied in all Buddha's teachings.

As I just said...

Personally I think the karma of Sakyamuni’s followers allowed for the most complete Path to be shown.

...meaning I don’t think the others are as complete. However that’s the same as saying Sakyamuni’s teachings are the expression of Buddha Activity that best suits my karma. It is how things seem from my karmic ignorance. That’s all. It’s not as if I’m standing on “the other shore” as I say this.

*****
I also don’t think there were many opportunities for Buddha Activity to manifest during the dinosaur period. But then again you never know...

[Malcolm]

...meaning I don’t think the others are as complete. However that’s the same as saying Sakyamuni’s teachings are the expression of Buddha Activity that best suits my karma. It is how things seem from my karmic ignorance. That’s all. It’s not as if I’m standing on “the other shore” as I say this.

It is a nice idea that all things beneficial are a result of buddha activity, but it is a pretty buddhist idea, unlikely to be shared by Muslims or Hindus.

[Schrödinger’s Yidam]

...meaning I don’t think the others are as complete. However that’s the same as saying Sakyamuni’s teachings are the expression of Buddha Activity that best suits my karma. It is how things seem from my karmic ignorance. That’s all. It’s not as if I’m standing on “the other shore” as I say this.

It is a nice idea that all things beneficial are a result of buddha activity, but it is a pretty buddhist idea, unlikely to be shared by Muslims or Hindus.

We call it Buddha Activity.

[Malcolm]

...meaning I don’t think the others are as complete. However that’s the same as saying Sakyamuni’s teachings are the expression of Buddha Activity that best suits my karma. It is how things seem from my karmic ignorance. That’s all. It’s not as if I’m standing on “the other shore” as I say this.

It is a nice idea that all things beneficial are a result of buddha activity, but it is a pretty buddhist idea, unlikely to be shared by Muslims or Hindus.

We call it Buddha Activity.

The problem is that according to your definition, buddha activity is limited by karma. For Christians, etc., God's power has no limits. So they will never agree.

[WesleyP]

Why not? Plenty of people come to the teachings from other religious backgrounds.

perhaps my understanding monotheistic religions is lacking.

What do you mean? You weren't born a Buddhist either.

. .

[Pero]

In brief, these that were explained already, from the abiding basis ( gzhi gnas, not zhi gnas, śamatha) up to the clear-knowing consciousness and the all-basis consciousness, are the section of making mental aspects into the path. However, since they are divorced from the vipaśyanā that understands the nature of reality, they do not even approach the path freedom of liberation from the suffering of samsara and omniscience free from both extremes by even a hair tip, even if one practices with intense diligence for a long time. Because this will do nothing other than bolster samsara, one must understand with certainty that one will waste a thousand human lives!

The commentary goes on to say that this is all for just making the process of giving introduction to inferior students a little easier by calming their conceptuality.

So, kind of a different read than Wallace's take on the same text.

Thank you for your translation but other than the misreading you mention I can't see a difference in meaning between two translations since the main point of both is that taking mind as the path does not lead to liberation.

[Schrödinger’s Yidam]

The problem is that according to your definition, buddha activity is limited by karma. For Christians, etc., God's power has no limits. So they will never agree.

I’m not petitioning Christians for agreement. I’m sharing how I expand my view beyond the limitations of culture and history. Lower down in my post I mentioned that the principle had to be present even in the dinosaur era. I'm not going to try to get agreement from birds (dinosaur's decedents) either!

For Christians, etc., God's power has no limits.

That’s a key reason why I can’t be Christian. I cannot reconcile the existence of evil with divine omnipotence. There are other reasons for my preference to Buddhism too, but this one came up in the context of this thread.

[Malcolm]

Thank you for your translation but other than the misreading you mention I can't see a difference in meaning between two translations since the main point of both is that taking mind as the path does not lead to liberation.

The point is not that there is a huge difference in the translations, the point is the assumption Wallace draws from the text. The assumption he draws is this: it is absolutely necessary for beginners to take the impure mind as the path. But that is not what Dudjom Lingpa is saying at all. He is, characteristically, describing what certain people, people of inferior capacity (dbang po dman) must do, before they can enter the actual path of Dzogchen, which is taking pristine consciousness (ye shes) as the path.

Wallace's interest in śamatha predates his forays into Dzogchen by many years, which one can observe in his 1992 translation, Calming the Mind: Tibetan Buddhist Teachings on the Cultivation of Meditative Quiescence.

[Natan]

Let's say you go somewhere there is no religious tradition, like an alien world with no history of any Faith. What are you going to talk about to explain Dzogchen? What would be the source of those words and actions?

[Malcolm]

Let's say you go somewhere there is no religious tradition, like an alien world with no history of any Faith. What are you going to talk about to explain Dzogchen? What would be the source of those words and actions?

Well, the natural thing would be to start with suffering, its cause, etc.

[jet.urgyen]

Let's say you go somewhere there is no religious tradition, like an alien world with no history of any Faith. What are you going to talk about to explain Dzogchen? What would be the source of those words and actions?

the
four
noble
truths

[Natan]

Let's say you go somewhere there is no religious tradition, like an alien world with no history of any Faith. What are you going to talk about to explain Dzogchen? What would be the source of those words and actions?

Well, the natural thing would be to start with suffering, its cause, etc.

We must always keep naturalness in mind.

[Natan]

But I was talking about Dzogchen. Starts with Three Statements, no?

[Malcolm]

But I was talking about Dzogchen. Starts with Three Statements, no?

If I landed on an alien planet, where there was no knowledge of Buddhadharma, say somewhere like North Dakota, I would start where ChNN always started: suffering. That's just me, however. YMMV.

[fckw]

That’s a key reason why I can’t be Christian. I cannot reconcile the existence of evil with divine omnipotence. There are other reasons for my preference to Buddhism too, but this one came up in the context of this thread.

Yeah, same reason I am not Buddhist. I just can't reconcile the idea that all that happens to you is your karma.

[PeterC]

...somewhuere like North Dakota...

If you’re explaining the Dharma in Fargo I think it would be wise to start with suffering and not go straight to recognition of the natural state. Just a hunch.

[Schrödinger’s Yidam]

That’s a key reason why I can’t be Christian. I cannot reconcile the existence of evil with divine omnipotence. There are other reasons for my preference to Buddhism too, but this one came up in the context of this thread.

Yeah, same reason I am not Buddhist. I just can't reconcile the idea that all that happens to you is your karma.

Our reasons are not exactly the same. I can’t make divine omnipotence make sense. There are irreconcilable internal contradictions.

On the other hand, karma and reincarnation are internally consistent and align with what we see in our world. You just don’t buy it. That’s totally okay. But it’s more your personal preference rather then a logical problem with the theory.