Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

User avatar
heart
Posts: 6288
Joined: Fri Jan 08, 2010 1:55 pm

Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Post by heart »

There are two things I remember as important from this book. The first is that Tibetan tulku politics is really quite bad. The other thing is that ChNNR was actually quite close to Dzongsar Khyentse Chökyi Lodro.

/magnus
"We are all here to help each other go through this thing, whatever it is."
~Kurt Vonnegut

"The principal practice is Guruyoga. But we need to understand that any secondary practice combined with Guruyoga becomes a principal practice." ChNNR (Teachings on Thun and Ganapuja)
Moha
Posts: 162
Joined: Mon Feb 06, 2017 11:20 am

Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Post by Moha »

Does anyone know if there is a specific melody for the Khorwa Tongtrug practice? Doesn't seem like there are any audio recordings of this practice on the Shang Shung store.
User avatar
Harimoo
Posts: 129
Joined: Sun Sep 07, 2014 6:57 pm

Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Post by Harimoo »

heart wrote: Thu Aug 01, 2019 7:59 pm
There are two things I remember as important from this book. The first is that Tibetan tulku politics is really quite bad. The other thing is that ChNNR was actually quite close to Dzongsar Khyentse Chökyi Lodro.

/magnus
The only thing I remember from this book is that Yeshi Namkhai is Tulku Khyentse.
User avatar
Sādhaka
Posts: 1279
Joined: Sat Jan 16, 2016 4:39 pm

Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Post by Sādhaka »

Yes, he is Tulku Khyentse Chökyi Wangchug; not Tulku Khyentse Chökyi Lodro.
User avatar
heart
Posts: 6288
Joined: Fri Jan 08, 2010 1:55 pm

Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Post by heart »

Sādhaka wrote: Fri Aug 02, 2019 8:29 pm Yes, he is Tulku Khyentse Chökyi Wangchug; not Tulku Khyentse Chökyi Lodro.
All Khyentse tulkus have the same root.

/magnus
"We are all here to help each other go through this thing, whatever it is."
~Kurt Vonnegut

"The principal practice is Guruyoga. But we need to understand that any secondary practice combined with Guruyoga becomes a principal practice." ChNNR (Teachings on Thun and Ganapuja)
User avatar
Könchok Thrinley
Former staff member
Posts: 3275
Joined: Fri Jul 24, 2015 11:18 am
Location: He/Him from EU

Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Post by Könchok Thrinley »

Yes, they do. But some were basically killed off and taken out of history while others...
“Observing samaya involves to remain inseparable from the union of wisdom and compassion at all times, to sustain mindfulness, and to put into practice the guru’s instructions”. Garchen Rinpoche

For those who do virtuous actions,
goodness is what comes to pass.
For those who do non-virtuous actions,
that becomes suffering indeed.

- Arya Sanghata Sutra
User avatar
heart
Posts: 6288
Joined: Fri Jan 08, 2010 1:55 pm

Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Post by heart »

Miroku wrote: Sat Aug 03, 2019 6:38 am Yes, they do. But some were basically killed off and taken out of history while others...
Khyentse Chökyi Wangchug wasn't killed. He was the main tulku living at Dzongsar but due to politics he was replaced there by Dzongsar Khyentse Chökyi Lodro. However Khyentse Chökyi Wangchug never blamed Dzongsar Khyentse Chökyi Lodro for this and he always had the greatest faith in him. ChNNR was not so forgiving but ended up (through a series of events) gaining great faith in Dzongsar Khyentse Chökyi Lodro.

But perhaps you didn't read the book?

/magnus
"We are all here to help each other go through this thing, whatever it is."
~Kurt Vonnegut

"The principal practice is Guruyoga. But we need to understand that any secondary practice combined with Guruyoga becomes a principal practice." ChNNR (Teachings on Thun and Ganapuja)
User avatar
Könchok Thrinley
Former staff member
Posts: 3275
Joined: Fri Jul 24, 2015 11:18 am
Location: He/Him from EU

Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Post by Könchok Thrinley »

heart wrote: Sat Aug 03, 2019 9:05 am
Miroku wrote: Sat Aug 03, 2019 6:38 am Yes, they do. But some were basically killed off and taken out of history while others...
Khyentse Chökyi Wangchug wasn't killed. He was the main tulku living at Dzongsar but due to politics he was replaced there by Dzongsar Khyentse Chökyi Lodro. However Khyentse Chökyi Wangchug never blamed Dzongsar Khyentse Chökyi Lodro for this and he always had the greatest faith in him. ChNNR was not so forgiving but ended up (through a series of events) gaining great faith in Dzongsar Khyentse Chökyi Lodro.

But perhaps you didn't read the book?

/magnus
I read it and there was a mention of one of the Khyentses being poisoned if I remember correctly right near the beginning. I know KCW was not killed. Anyway the whole business was quite awful in many ways.
“Observing samaya involves to remain inseparable from the union of wisdom and compassion at all times, to sustain mindfulness, and to put into practice the guru’s instructions”. Garchen Rinpoche

For those who do virtuous actions,
goodness is what comes to pass.
For those who do non-virtuous actions,
that becomes suffering indeed.

- Arya Sanghata Sutra
User avatar
heart
Posts: 6288
Joined: Fri Jan 08, 2010 1:55 pm

Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Post by heart »

Miroku wrote: Sat Aug 03, 2019 9:11 am
heart wrote: Sat Aug 03, 2019 9:05 am
Miroku wrote: Sat Aug 03, 2019 6:38 am Yes, they do. But some were basically killed off and taken out of history while others...
Khyentse Chökyi Wangchug wasn't killed. He was the main tulku living at Dzongsar but due to politics he was replaced there by Dzongsar Khyentse Chökyi Lodro. However Khyentse Chökyi Wangchug never blamed Dzongsar Khyentse Chökyi Lodro for this and he always had the greatest faith in him. ChNNR was not so forgiving but ended up (through a series of events) gaining great faith in Dzongsar Khyentse Chökyi Lodro.

But perhaps you didn't read the book?

/magnus
I read it and there was a mention of one of the Khyentses being poisoned if I remember correctly right near the beginning. I know KCW was not killed. Anyway the whole business was quite awful in many ways.
Actually it was ChNNR that was poisoned when he came to take teachings from Dzongsar Khyentse Chökyi Lodro and Dzongsar Khyentse Chökyi Lodro that personally healed him and stayed by his side until he recovered.

/magnus
"We are all here to help each other go through this thing, whatever it is."
~Kurt Vonnegut

"The principal practice is Guruyoga. But we need to understand that any secondary practice combined with Guruyoga becomes a principal practice." ChNNR (Teachings on Thun and Ganapuja)
Gonpokarpo
Posts: 1
Joined: Mon Aug 07, 2017 11:00 pm

Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Post by Gonpokarpo »

climb-up wrote: Thu Jul 04, 2019 2:59 am The above answers are probably better, but I remember in one webcast ChNN talked about people saying they didn't have any time for transformation and he said "how can you not have time to say a mantra 30 times?" ...something like that.
So if I'm very rushed I'll do at least 30 (sometimes 21x, which I have heard as a minimum).
If I'm only doing a short thun, say at the beginning of the day, and not incorporating anther practice or focusing on accumulating mantras, then I generally do a minimum of one mala. It really doesn't even take much longer than 30x and there is not doubt that one full mala is a solid short practice.
Solid short practice???? Come on baby!
All siddhas of the pas have attained siddhi through excessus mentis, obtained with million of mantra repeated continuously.
All the rest is sitcom vajrayana practice!
User avatar
Johnny Dangerous
Global Moderator
Posts: 17092
Joined: Fri Nov 02, 2012 10:58 pm
Location: Olympia WA
Contact:

Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Post by Johnny Dangerous »

Gonpokarpo wrote: Sun Aug 04, 2019 11:51 pm
climb-up wrote: Thu Jul 04, 2019 2:59 am The above answers are probably better, but I remember in one webcast ChNN talked about people saying they didn't have any time for transformation and he said "how can you not have time to say a mantra 30 times?" ...something like that.
So if I'm very rushed I'll do at least 30 (sometimes 21x, which I have heard as a minimum).
If I'm only doing a short thun, say at the beginning of the day, and not incorporating anther practice or focusing on accumulating mantras, then I generally do a minimum of one mala. It really doesn't even take much longer than 30x and there is not doubt that one full mala is a solid short practice.
Solid short practice???? Come on baby!
All siddhas of the pas have attained siddhi through excessus mentis, obtained with million of mantra repeated continuously.
All the rest is sitcom vajrayana practice!
Dzogchen does not rely on accumulation of mantras certainly, whatever else may be the case. ChNN did not teach that it was necessary to accumulate this or that number of mantras in the style of Vajrayana practice.
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when afflicted by disease

Meditate upon Bodhicitta when sad

Meditate upon Bodhicitta when suffering occurs

Meditate upon Bodhicitta when you are scared

-Khunu Lama
Simon E.
Posts: 7652
Joined: Tue May 15, 2012 11:09 am

Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Post by Simon E. »

No, he certainly did not.
“You don’t know it. You just know about it. That is not the same thing.”

Chogyam Trungpa Rinpoche to me.
User avatar
climb-up
Posts: 1198
Joined: Sat Dec 03, 2016 6:32 am

Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Post by climb-up »

Gonpokarpo wrote: Sun Aug 04, 2019 11:51 pm
climb-up wrote: Thu Jul 04, 2019 2:59 am The above answers are probably better, but I remember in one webcast ChNN talked about people saying they didn't have any time for transformation and he said "how can you not have time to say a mantra 30 times?" ...something like that.
So if I'm very rushed I'll do at least 30 (sometimes 21x, which I have heard as a minimum).
If I'm only doing a short thun, say at the beginning of the day, and not incorporating anther practice or focusing on accumulating mantras, then I generally do a minimum of one mala. It really doesn't even take much longer than 30x and there is not doubt that one full mala is a solid short practice.
Solid short practice???? Come on baby!
All siddhas of the pas have attained siddhi through excessus mentis, obtained with million of mantra repeated continuously.
All the rest is sitcom vajrayana practice!
...are you a student of ChNN?

I’ve started and erased a couple responses because not interested in a measuring contest (mantra accumulation or otherwise), but suffice it to say your comments don’t seem to reflect ChNNs teachings.

Suffice it to say that, while formal practice is a very important support, it is not the main point and if your main practice is not attempting to integrate contemplation into every waking and sleeping moment, then even millions of mantras are far to short of a practice.

Also, in re: ‘sitcom vajrayana,’ (which is a funny term, I like it). ChNN taught that sutra Tantra and Dzogchen are different; we primarily practice Dzogchen and use sutra and Tantra as important supports to our main practice, not as the main practice itself.
"Death's second name is 'omnipresent.' On the relative truth it seems we become separate. But on the absolute there is no separation." Lama Dawa
User avatar
Johnny Dangerous
Global Moderator
Posts: 17092
Joined: Fri Nov 02, 2012 10:58 pm
Location: Olympia WA
Contact:

Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Post by Johnny Dangerous »

Reminder: my question was about how many mantra is good -for the Short Tun-. It was an honest (and hopefully simple) question, not a debate invitation. Certainly not an invitation for someone to hold their "mantra prowess" above others, which should hardly even need to be said.
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when afflicted by disease

Meditate upon Bodhicitta when sad

Meditate upon Bodhicitta when suffering occurs

Meditate upon Bodhicitta when you are scared

-Khunu Lama
jet.urgyen
Posts: 2753
Joined: Sun Jan 01, 2017 12:29 am

Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Post by jet.urgyen »

om mani peme hum, how many cows i have, omani peme hum, i wanna eat noodles, om mani peme hun, i have 100 dollars in account, om mani pedme hum, i'm transformed but here thinking as myself, omani pedme hun, i need another initiation.. now that's a better comedy...

sorry if i offended anyone but if so, that where i pretended to point at.
true dharma is inexpressible.

The bodhisattva nourishes from bodhicitta, through whatever method the Buddha has given him. Oh joy.
User avatar
Johnny Dangerous
Global Moderator
Posts: 17092
Joined: Fri Nov 02, 2012 10:58 pm
Location: Olympia WA
Contact:

Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Post by Johnny Dangerous »

Gotta love blanket discouragement to ones practice from anonymous Vajra experts....oh well, off to my Sitcom Vajrayana practice. See you guys at the commercial break.
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when afflicted by disease

Meditate upon Bodhicitta when sad

Meditate upon Bodhicitta when suffering occurs

Meditate upon Bodhicitta when you are scared

-Khunu Lama
User avatar
climb-up
Posts: 1198
Joined: Sat Dec 03, 2016 6:32 am

Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Post by climb-up »

Johnny Dangerous wrote: Tue Aug 06, 2019 5:39 am Gotta love blanket discouragement to ones practice from anonymous Vajra experts....oh well, off to my Sitcom Vajrayana practice. See you guys at the commercial break.
:rolling:
"Death's second name is 'omnipresent.' On the relative truth it seems we become separate. But on the absolute there is no separation." Lama Dawa
User avatar
Könchok Thrinley
Former staff member
Posts: 3275
Joined: Fri Jul 24, 2015 11:18 am
Location: He/Him from EU

Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Post by Könchok Thrinley »

Johnny Dangerous wrote: Tue Aug 06, 2019 5:39 am Gotta love blanket discouragement to ones practice from anonymous Vajra experts....oh well, off to my Sitcom Vajrayana practice. See you guys at the commercial break.
I mean, sitcom characters are usually without much change so beyond change and death so clearly highly realized beings. I'd be happy if somebody called my practice a sitcom... its better than my GoT vajrayana practice...
“Observing samaya involves to remain inseparable from the union of wisdom and compassion at all times, to sustain mindfulness, and to put into practice the guru’s instructions”. Garchen Rinpoche

For those who do virtuous actions,
goodness is what comes to pass.
For those who do non-virtuous actions,
that becomes suffering indeed.

- Arya Sanghata Sutra
User avatar
khemmis
Posts: 72
Joined: Wed Oct 26, 2016 5:42 pm

Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Post by khemmis »

Is there a way to get electronic version of Vajrapani meditation with some explanation? On Shang Shung store there is only some old physical text called "Practice of Vajrapani" and audio cd with explanation. I checked restricted materials on webcast page but there is nothing there on Vajrapani.
Locked

Return to “Dzogchen”