Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

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heart
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Post by heart »

Pero wrote: Mon Mar 26, 2018 9:37 pm
heart wrote: Mon Mar 26, 2018 9:06 pm
Norwegian wrote: Mon Mar 26, 2018 8:34 pm
My memory is a little fuzzy here, but perhaps you refer to ChNN receiving Adzom Drugpa's termas from Adzom Drugpa's son, Adzom Gyalse Gyurme Dorje, but confusing the two? Otherwise I'm not sure.
I certainly could confuse the two, my memory is very fuzzy even at the best of times. :smile:

/magnus
No, you are right. Changchub Dorje directed Norbu Rinpoche to get his termas from his son. And he also received Adzom Drugpa's termas from Adzom Drugpa's son.
So, you remember his name? Is he still alive?

/magnus
"We are all here to help each other go through this thing, whatever it is."
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"The principal practice is Guruyoga. But we need to understand that any secondary practice combined with Guruyoga becomes a principal practice." ChNNR (Teachings on Thun and Ganapuja)
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Post by Spelare »

What does Rinpoche teach as far as whether it is okay to integrate practices received from other teachers/lineages into a tun that includes Ati Guruyoga? Is this something that is fine for individual practice, but in group practice it should only be Dzogchen Community practices? What if, hypothetically, all the members of our local sangha had received transmission for a certain practice from another qualified master? Could we incorporate his/her practices into the DC tun structure?
Neither person nor skandha
but unstained wisdom is buddha.
In its knowing, ever serene—
I go for refuge therein.
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Post by Pero »

heart wrote: Tue Mar 27, 2018 11:49 am
Pero wrote: Mon Mar 26, 2018 9:37 pm
heart wrote: Mon Mar 26, 2018 9:06 pm

I certainly could confuse the two, my memory is very fuzzy even at the best of times. :smile:

/magnus
No, you are right. Changchub Dorje directed Norbu Rinpoche to get his termas from his son. And he also received Adzom Drugpa's termas from Adzom Drugpa's son.
So, you remember his name? Is he still alive?

/magnus
Had to look for it, it's Gyurmed Gyaltsen. No idea.
Although many individuals in this age appear to be merely indulging their worldly desires, one does not have the capacity to judge them, so it is best to train in pure vision.
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Post by Pero »

Spelare wrote: Tue Mar 27, 2018 12:58 pm What does Rinpoche teach as far as whether it is okay to integrate practices received from other teachers/lineages into a tun that includes Ati Guruyoga? Is this something that is fine for individual practice, but in group practice it should only be Dzogchen Community practices? What if, hypothetically, all the members of our local sangha had received transmission for a certain practice from another qualified master? Could we incorporate his/her practices into the DC tun structure?
I'm not 100% sure if I'm getting you right but yes he does teach on it and that is that in general it's not ok to mix practices and transmissions.
Although many individuals in this age appear to be merely indulging their worldly desires, one does not have the capacity to judge them, so it is best to train in pure vision.
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Post by climb-up »

Pero wrote: Tue Mar 27, 2018 4:05 pm
Spelare wrote: Tue Mar 27, 2018 12:58 pm What does Rinpoche teach as far as whether it is okay to integrate practices received from other teachers/lineages into a tun that includes Ati Guruyoga? Is this something that is fine for individual practice, but in group practice it should only be Dzogchen Community practices? What if, hypothetically, all the members of our local sangha had received transmission for a certain practice from another qualified master? Could we incorporate his/her practices into the DC tun structure?
I'm not 100% sure if I'm getting you right but yes he does teach on it and that is that in general it's not ok to mix practices and transmissions.
Mixing practices might not be good, but everything is supposed to be integrated with guruyoga.
EDIT:
Oh sorry, nevermind. I missed the last sentence with "into the DC thun structure."
AFAIK that is a no no.
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Post by Moha »

I hope this is ok to post here. Apologies if this isn't the best place for it.

Can I please ask for some guidance with secondary practices within the DC, specifically for the benefit of those with serious illnesses? My mother-in-law just got diagnosed with colon cancer. While the outlook isn't bleak, her age and prior medical history are causing us some concern.

Apart from ensuring she gets the best medical treatment we can afford, I'd like some advice about what practices I can do to aid her recovery.

I'm guessing Mandarava would be the best option but I wasn't able to attend the last Mandarava retreat and receive transmission - so I think that's out of the question. I've just purchased the Thun and Arya Tara books (which Rinpoche have the transmissions for during the December retreat).

Just wanted to know if there's any other practice I should know about. I'm still very new at all of this and any help is very much appreciated.

Thanking you all in advance.
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

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Ignorant_Fool wrote: Wed Mar 28, 2018 10:51 am I hope this is ok to post here. Apologies if this isn't the best place for it.

Can I please ask for some guidance with secondary practices within the DC, specifically for the benefit of those with serious illnesses? My mother-in-law just got diagnosed with colon cancer. While the outlook isn't bleak, her age and prior medical history are causing us some concern.

Apart from ensuring she gets the best medical treatment we can afford, I'd like some advice about what practices I can do to aid her recovery.

I'm guessing Mandarava would be the best option but I wasn't able to attend the last Mandarava retreat and receive transmission - so I think that's out of the question. I've just purchased the Thun and Arya Tara books (which Rinpoche have the transmissions for during the December retreat).

Just wanted to know if there's any other practice I should know about. I'm still very new at all of this and any help is very much appreciated.

Thanking you all in advance.
PM'd
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For those who do non-virtuous actions,
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Post by PSM »

Ignorant_Fool wrote: Wed Mar 28, 2018 10:51 am I hope this is ok to post here. Apologies if this isn't the best place for it.

Can I please ask for some guidance with secondary practices within the DC, specifically for the benefit of those with serious illnesses? My mother-in-law just got diagnosed with colon cancer. While the outlook isn't bleak, her age and prior medical history are causing us some concern.

Apart from ensuring she gets the best medical treatment we can afford, I'd like some advice about what practices I can do to aid her recovery.

I'm guessing Mandarava would be the best option but I wasn't able to attend the last Mandarava retreat and receive transmission - so I think that's out of the question. I've just purchased the Thun and Arya Tara books (which Rinpoche have the transmissions for during the December retreat).

Just wanted to know if there's any other practice I should know about. I'm still very new at all of this and any help is very much appreciated.

Thanking you all in advance.
Rinpoche has said Red Garuda practice is specifically good against cancer.
When I had this illness of cancer, it corresponded very precisely with that year, and I thought also that my Teacher had said the length of my life would be that, so my life was finished, really. And I had only the idea of dying and that is all. I went into the hospital having little idea that I could live longer. When I had passed two or three days in the hospital, I thought, ‘Sometimes when I go around giving teachings etc, there is a practice of Red Garuda, a terma teaching of Adzom Drugpa, and it is says it is particularly good for curing cancer.’ But we had no cancer in ancient times explained particularly as cancer. But this teaching says very precisely the action mantra for curing cancer and to do visualization like so and chant this mantra. And I received this transmission from the son of Adzom Drugpa. I remembered that. I gave transmission to these people who had the illness of cancer. Some people said the doctor only gave them six months to live. And I gave them this practice, and at least two or three people did this practice intensively and they overcame this problem; at least two or three people told me that they had overcome that. Then I thought, maybe I want to do this practice also; maybe if they overcame it, I could also. I started to do a little practice but I thought maybe it’s not sufficient because my life is already finished.

I was not very concentrated. But then, a few days later, I had an idea: Many years ago I had gone to Maratika in Nepal, a place of Guru Padmasambhava. And at that time I had received a teaching in my dream of a Mandarava practice, a long life practice. Then I wrote this down. And then later, when I arrived in Italy, I did this practice. Also I gave it to some of my students. And in this practice I wrote it down as saying that even if the life is consumed, at least seven more years can be lived. I thought maybe, even if I had finished tshe tshad (the lifespan), still there is a possibility that, if I do this practice, there could be seven years more, and maybe I should do this practice. I concentrated on the essence of this practice. Then, after 20 days of doing this practice, the doctors said the illness had completely disappeared. The doctors were very satisfied because they thought their medicine and research was fantastic. In the New York Times there were two or three articles, and I became an example for them. So then, I had a lot of confidence later.

And I think that it is very important to understand that in Tibetan medicine there are gdon can and gdon med; these we must distinguish well. If there is gdon can– any kind of provocation – it is very important that we do a kind of practice, because in medicine there are many kinds of practice – for example Garuda etc. – for controlling negative provocations. We combine medicine with everything we are taking, like therapy; everything is becoming active when there is controlled energy. If we don’t control the energy, the gdon can medicine would not be successful. For that reason, I have this idea that gdon can and gdon med are very important for doctors and we should distinguish them, and the necessity for their use.
http://melong.com/keynote-address-by-ch ... 5-27-2014/
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Post by Spelare »

Pero wrote: Tue Mar 27, 2018 4:05 pm
Spelare wrote: Tue Mar 27, 2018 12:58 pm What does Rinpoche teach as far as whether it is okay to integrate practices received from other teachers/lineages into a tun that includes Ati Guruyoga? Is this something that is fine for individual practice, but in group practice it should only be Dzogchen Community practices? What if, hypothetically, all the members of our local sangha had received transmission for a certain practice from another qualified master? Could we incorporate his/her practices into the DC tun structure?
I'm not 100% sure if I'm getting you right but yes he does teach on it and that is that in general it's not ok to mix practices and transmissions.
So, in other words, if I have practices from my other gurus, they have to be in a separate session? That's not terribly efficient, but I will do that if necessary. I was hoping I could just do all of them within a single session, beginning with refuge and ending with dedication of merits.
Neither person nor skandha
but unstained wisdom is buddha.
In its knowing, ever serene—
I go for refuge therein.
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Post by heart »

Spelare wrote: Wed Mar 28, 2018 2:47 pm
Pero wrote: Tue Mar 27, 2018 4:05 pm
Spelare wrote: Tue Mar 27, 2018 12:58 pm What does Rinpoche teach as far as whether it is okay to integrate practices received from other teachers/lineages into a tun that includes Ati Guruyoga? Is this something that is fine for individual practice, but in group practice it should only be Dzogchen Community practices? What if, hypothetically, all the members of our local sangha had received transmission for a certain practice from another qualified master? Could we incorporate his/her practices into the DC tun structure?
I'm not 100% sure if I'm getting you right but yes he does teach on it and that is that in general it's not ok to mix practices and transmissions.
So, in other words, if I have practices from my other gurus, they have to be in a separate session? That's not terribly efficient, but I will do that if necessary. I was hoping I could just do all of them within a single session, beginning with refuge and ending with dedication of merits.
Other teachers would probably not accept ChNNR minimalistic yidam practice either.

/magnus
"We are all here to help each other go through this thing, whatever it is."
~Kurt Vonnegut

"The principal practice is Guruyoga. But we need to understand that any secondary practice combined with Guruyoga becomes a principal practice." ChNNR (Teachings on Thun and Ganapuja)
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Post by Moha »

Thank you both for the very helpful advice.
:anjali:
Miroku wrote: Wed Mar 28, 2018 12:11 pm PM'd
PSM wrote: Wed Mar 28, 2018 12:58 pm Rinpoche has said Red Garuda practice is specifically good against cancer.
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Post by Lukeinaz »

Spelare wrote: Wed Mar 28, 2018 2:47 pm
Pero wrote: Tue Mar 27, 2018 4:05 pm
Spelare wrote: Tue Mar 27, 2018 12:58 pm What does Rinpoche teach as far as whether it is okay to integrate practices received from other teachers/lineages into a tun that includes Ati Guruyoga? Is this something that is fine for individual practice, but in group practice it should only be Dzogchen Community practices? What if, hypothetically, all the members of our local sangha had received transmission for a certain practice from another qualified master? Could we incorporate his/her practices into the DC tun structure?
I'm not 100% sure if I'm getting you right but yes he does teach on it and that is that in general it's not ok to mix practices and transmissions.
So, in other words, if I have practices from my other gurus, they have to be in a separate session? That's not terribly efficient, but I will do that if necessary. I was hoping I could just do all of them within a single session, beginning with refuge and ending with dedication of merits.
I was wondering about this as well. For instance adding supplication and sems dzin from another lineage within the DC thun framework. It all comes to the same point, right?
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Post by Aryjna »

Lukeinaz wrote: Wed Mar 28, 2018 7:46 pm
Spelare wrote: Wed Mar 28, 2018 2:47 pm
Pero wrote: Tue Mar 27, 2018 4:05 pm
I'm not 100% sure if I'm getting you right but yes he does teach on it and that is that in general it's not ok to mix practices and transmissions.
So, in other words, if I have practices from my other gurus, they have to be in a separate session? That's not terribly efficient, but I will do that if necessary. I was hoping I could just do all of them within a single session, beginning with refuge and ending with dedication of merits.
I was wondering about this as well. For instance adding supplication and sems dzin from another lineage within the DC thun framework. It all comes to the same point, right?
Why does it have to be in the same thun? You can finish one and then start another.
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Post by Lukeinaz »

Aryjna wrote: Wed Mar 28, 2018 7:48 pm
Lukeinaz wrote: Wed Mar 28, 2018 7:46 pm
Spelare wrote: Wed Mar 28, 2018 2:47 pm

So, in other words, if I have practices from my other gurus, they have to be in a separate session? That's not terribly efficient, but I will do that if necessary. I was hoping I could just do all of them within a single session, beginning with refuge and ending with dedication of merits.
I was wondering about this as well. For instance adding supplication and sems dzin from another lineage within the DC thun framework. It all comes to the same point, right?
Why does it have to be in the same thun? You can finish one and then start another.
Seems a bit contrived. To stop, dedicate and then begin again with refuge ect. Of course, if this is recommended I will change my practice.
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Post by Aryjna »

Lukeinaz wrote: Wed Mar 28, 2018 7:55 pm
Aryjna wrote: Wed Mar 28, 2018 7:48 pm
Lukeinaz wrote: Wed Mar 28, 2018 7:46 pm

I was wondering about this as well. For instance adding supplication and sems dzin from another lineage within the DC thun framework. It all comes to the same point, right?
Why does it have to be in the same thun? You can finish one and then start another.
Seems a bit contrived. To stop, dedicate and then begin again with refuge ect. Of course, if this is recommended I will change my practice.
I doubt that it is common to practice a series of different things in a row and then make a collective dedication in general. But I could be wrong.
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Post by climb-up »

Spelare wrote: Wed Mar 28, 2018 2:47 pm
Pero wrote: Tue Mar 27, 2018 4:05 pm
Spelare wrote: Tue Mar 27, 2018 12:58 pm What does Rinpoche teach as far as whether it is okay to integrate practices received from other teachers/lineages into a tun that includes Ati Guruyoga? Is this something that is fine for individual practice, but in group practice it should only be Dzogchen Community practices? What if, hypothetically, all the members of our local sangha had received transmission for a certain practice from another qualified master? Could we incorporate his/her practices into the DC tun structure?
I'm not 100% sure if I'm getting you right but yes he does teach on it and that is that in general it's not ok to mix practices and transmissions.
So, in other words, if I have practices from my other gurus, they have to be in a separate session? That's not terribly efficient, but I will do that if necessary. I was hoping I could just do all of them within a single session, beginning with refuge and ending with dedication of merits.
That's how it goes studying more than one system.

Of course, depending on your needs, desires and circumstance, the essence of all practices can be merged into one practice; if efficiency is of primary importance.
Ati guruyoga can and should be integrated into everything, and can be maintained during any practice.
Similary, the thuns contain the essence of maha, anu and ati yoga and their practice can contain everything.
"Death's second name is 'omnipresent.' On the relative truth it seems we become separate. But on the absolute there is no separation." Lama Dawa
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Post by Mantrik »

Lukeinaz wrote: Wed Mar 28, 2018 7:55 pm
Aryjna wrote: Wed Mar 28, 2018 7:48 pm

Why does it have to be in the same thun? You can finish one and then start another.
Seems a bit contrived. To stop, dedicate and then begin again with refuge ect. Of course, if this is recommended I will change my practice.
ChNN does suggest that a retreat may have a daily content which is varied, so I see no problem in performing thuns with different deities. I take that to mean each one is a complete Thun format.

Perhaps only ChNN can answer whether you need to go through the Refuge and Bodhicitta stages more than once. If you are performing the Thuns one after another it would make no sense to me, and of course he always advises 'working with circumstances'.
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Thanno Garuda Prachodayath

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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Post by Aryjna »

Mantrik wrote: Wed Mar 28, 2018 8:28 pm
Perhaps only ChNN can answer whether you need to go through the Refuge and Bodhicitta stages more than once. If you are performing the Thuns one after another it would make no sense to me, and of course he always advises 'working with circumstances'.
He also says that whatever you receive you should show respect and practice it exactly as given. So, unless the lama who gave you the practice also agrees to it being practiced in this way, then you cannot do it.
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Post by Mantrik »

Aryjna wrote: Wed Mar 28, 2018 8:32 pm
Mantrik wrote: Wed Mar 28, 2018 8:28 pm
Perhaps only ChNN can answer whether you need to go through the Refuge and Bodhicitta stages more than once. If you are performing the Thuns one after another it would make no sense to me, and of course he always advises 'working with circumstances'.
He also says that whatever you receive you should show respect and practice it exactly as given. So, unless the lama who gave you the practice also agrees to it being practiced in this way, then you cannot do it.
I was referring to ChNN Thuns with differing deities. Sorry, perhaps that was unclear.
Because we remain in the state, unlike in HYT, there is maybe no need to repeat the Refuge and Bodhicitta elements, but I've not heard ChNN teach this, so he or a senior student would need to be asked.
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Om Thathpurushaya Vidhmahe
Suvarna Pakshaya Dheemahe
Thanno Garuda Prachodayath

Micchāmi Dukkaḍaṃ (मिच्छामि दुक्कडम्)
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Post by Aryjna »

Mantrik wrote: Wed Mar 28, 2018 8:39 pm
Aryjna wrote: Wed Mar 28, 2018 8:32 pm
Mantrik wrote: Wed Mar 28, 2018 8:28 pm
Perhaps only ChNN can answer whether you need to go through the Refuge and Bodhicitta stages more than once. If you are performing the Thuns one after another it would make no sense to me, and of course he always advises 'working with circumstances'.
He also says that whatever you receive you should show respect and practice it exactly as given. So, unless the lama who gave you the practice also agrees to it being practiced in this way, then you cannot do it.
I was referring to ChNN Thuns with differing deities. Sorry, perhaps that was unclear.
Because we remain in the state, unlike in HYT, there is maybe no need to repeat the Refuge and Bodhicitta elements, but I've not heard ChNN teach this, so he or a senior student would need to be asked.
Ah, I say that because the original question was about including practices from other teachers.
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