Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Blue Garuda
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Post by Blue Garuda » Sun Aug 05, 2012 7:33 pm

Pero wrote:
Blue Garuda wrote:It would be really really helpful if someone could post here and translate the title and explain what a forthcoming retreat was going to be about. I hesitate to ask, as members are already very helpful, but it really would help a lot.

I think before attending a first session by webcast one should read 'Guruyoga' and 'The Crystal and the Way of Light' and try to have sight of the Short Tun and an explanation. I would advise joining DC before attending webcasts in order to study the texts - however catch 22 is that you need the lungs before you can study the texts to find out what the practices are about, so maybe a person should attend the last session of one retreat for the lungs and then order the relevant texts for the future retreats.
http://www.dharmawheel.net/viewtopic.ph ... al#p104647
Longsal Atií Nadzer
Main points of Ati. It's a short text on the main points of ati (view, meditation etc.), just one page. However, Rinpoche made a commentary on it so I think he's going to teach from that as he already has some time ago. Part of it for example is an explanation of the semdzins.
Longsal Atii Gongpa Gojyed

Opening of the gate to the state of Ati. It is a form of purification of 6 lokas.
Longsal Atii Lam-gyi Ngondro
Longsal Dzogchen preliminaries, detailing a form of purification of 6 lokas combined with Vajrasatva. But text mentions also other rushan and semdzin.
Longsal Atii Gongpa ngotrod teaching
Introduction to the state of Ati is an explanation of 4 yogas of semde, also combined with upadesha.
That's great, but most of the words would be meaningless to a beginner. State of Ati? Semdzins? Longsal? Rushan? Semde? Upadesha?

I meant a REALLY simple explanation for those new to Dzogchen and the DC so that they understand what is going to be taught and how it fits in to the path. ;)
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dakini_boi
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Post by dakini_boi » Sun Aug 05, 2012 7:42 pm

Blue Garuda wrote: I think before attending a first session by webcast one should read 'Guruyoga' and 'The Crystal and the Way of Light' and try to have sight of the Short Tun and an explanation. I would advise joining DC before attending webcasts in order to study the texts - however catch 22 is that you need the lungs before you can study the texts to find out what the practices are about, so maybe a person should attend the last session of one retreat for the lungs and then order the relevant texts for the future retreats.
I agree it would be helpful to read Crystal or another book by ChNNR. However, membership and the study of restricted texts are not at all important before attending webcasts.

Norwegian
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Post by Norwegian » Sun Aug 05, 2012 7:44 pm

Very simple:

"A teaching on Dzogchen." :)

(As far as suggesting the book "Guruyoga", that won't help as it's restricted. I echo the recommendation of "The Crystal and the Way of Light", as reading material.)
"The Guru is the Buddha, the Guru is the Dharma,
The Guru is the Sangha too,
The Guru is Śrī Heruka.
The All-Creating King is the Guru."

-- The Secret Assembly Tantra

Pero
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Post by Pero » Sun Aug 05, 2012 7:48 pm

Blue Garuda wrote:I meant a REALLY simple explanation for those new to Dzogchen and the DC so that they understand what is going to be taught and how it fits in to the path.
Why?
Although many individuals in this age appear to be merely indulging their worldly desires, one does not have the capacity to judge them, so it is best to train in pure vision.
- Shabkar

Blue Garuda
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Post by Blue Garuda » Sun Aug 05, 2012 7:53 pm

Just giving a beginner's view.

Tune into the first session and 'we begin with Guruyoga' . Eh ? Oh, and afterwards you find there was DI ?

The 'Guruyoga' book was immensely helpful to me, but others may not find it so.
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Pero
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Post by Pero » Sun Aug 05, 2012 7:58 pm

Blue Garuda wrote:Just giving a beginner's view.

Tune into the first session and 'we begin with Guruyoga' . Eh ? Oh, and afterwards you find there was DI ?
I'm sorry but I really don't get it. He usually explains GY on the first day and how can you not know there was a DI?
Although many individuals in this age appear to be merely indulging their worldly desires, one does not have the capacity to judge them, so it is best to train in pure vision.
- Shabkar

Blue Garuda
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Post by Blue Garuda » Sun Aug 05, 2012 8:08 pm

Put yourself in the place of the complete beginner - it's easy to understand what you are already familiar with.

I'm not sure it is true that he always explains Guruyoga at the start - I may be confused but I think I recall it is sometimes not being explained before it is done.

How can a person not know that DI is being given? Well, if they haven't heard of it and feel nothing. It may well have been given, but knowing that is not the same at all. ChNNR himself didn't know it had been given to him by his master, so maybe ask him? ;)
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Pero
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Post by Pero » Sun Aug 05, 2012 8:16 pm

Blue Garuda wrote:Put yourself in the place of the complete beginner - it's easy to understand what you are already familiar with.
Yes I'm aware of that. I do find it a bit hard to put myself in a complete beginner's shoes. Maybe if E-Sangha was still around I could look at my first posts haha.
How can a person not know that DI is being given? Well, if they haven't heard of it and feel nothing. It may well have been given, but knowing that is not the same at all. ChNNR himself didn't know it had been given to him by his master, so maybe ask him? ;)
Rinpoche knew very well when he received DI, I think you're confusing it with receiving the empowerment from CD in CD's dream. What I'm saying is, Rinpoche explains it before giving it, so how could you not hear of it?
Although many individuals in this age appear to be merely indulging their worldly desires, one does not have the capacity to judge them, so it is best to train in pure vision.
- Shabkar

Blue Garuda
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Post by Blue Garuda » Sun Aug 05, 2012 8:48 pm

Pero wrote: Rinpoche knew very well when he received DI, I think you're confusing it with receiving the empowerment from CD in CD's dream. What I'm saying is, Rinpoche explains it before giving it, so how could you not hear of it?

Yes, apologies, I may well be mixing up my stories. The one I remember is about ChNNR visiting CD and asking for the Dzogchen teachings and DI and being told he had already received it as soon as he had arrived. Maybe it was two entirely different people! I blame Dementia - she's a lovely girl but often absent from home.

I don't want to get bogged down on the DI aspect, as it is beyond mind anyway. I'm more concerned as a beginner to know what will be taught via a webcast and what it means in terms of practice. I'm not thinking so much of myself now, as I am becoming familiar with the vocab, but some folks may need to take time off work or get up at 3 am so it seems polite to tell them what to expect. Personally, I will tune in whatever, but a complete newbie may not feel that way. Or maybe I'm just typing crap! LOL :)
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Pero
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Post by Pero » Sun Aug 05, 2012 9:10 pm

Blue Garuda wrote:Yes, apologies, I may well be mixing up my stories. The one I remember is about ChNNR visiting CD and asking for the Dzogchen teachings and DI and being told he had already received it as soon as he had arrived. Maybe it was two entirely different people! I blame Dementia - she's a lovely girl but often absent from home.
Rinpoche wanted an initiation and CD told him he gave it to him in a dream when he arrived. But Rinpoche wasn't satisfied because it was CD's dream and not his. So eventually CD gave him the initiation and Rinpoche was satisfied and wanted to leave but to Rinpoche's surprise CD told him they haven't actually done anything yet. Then he proceeded to give him DI and totally blew his mind. He knew perfectly when that happened.
I'm more concerned as a beginner to know what will be taught via a webcast and what it means in terms of practice. I'm not thinking so much of myself now, as I am becoming familiar with the vocab, but some folks may need to take time off work or get up at 3 am so it seems polite to tell them what to expect. Personally, I will tune in whatever, but a complete newbie may not feel that way.
I'm probably being difficult but it's a dzogchen teaching, what more would a beginner need to know? They can get picky later. :rolling:
Although many individuals in this age appear to be merely indulging their worldly desires, one does not have the capacity to judge them, so it is best to train in pure vision.
- Shabkar

Blue Garuda
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Post by Blue Garuda » Sun Aug 05, 2012 9:16 pm

Pero wrote:
Blue Garuda wrote:Yes, apologies, I may well be mixing up my stories. The one I remember is about ChNNR visiting CD and asking for the Dzogchen teachings and DI and being told he had already received it as soon as he had arrived. Maybe it was two entirely different people! I blame Dementia - she's a lovely girl but often absent from home.
Rinpoche wanted an initiation and CD told him he gave it to him in a dream when he arrived. But Rinpoche wasn't satisfied because it was CD's dream and not his. So eventually CD gave him the initiation and Rinpoche was satisfied and wanted to leave but to Rinpoche's surprise CD told him they haven't actually done anything yet. Then he proceeded to give him DI and totally blew his mind. He knew perfectly when that happened.
I'm more concerned as a beginner to know what will be taught via a webcast and what it means in terms of practice. I'm not thinking so much of myself now, as I am becoming familiar with the vocab, but some folks may need to take time off work or get up at 3 am so it seems polite to tell them what to expect. Personally, I will tune in whatever, but a complete newbie may not feel that way.
I'm probably being difficult but it's a dzogchen teaching, what more would a beginner need to know? They can get picky later. :rolling:
Ah, that's the story, yes. I must have read it upside down!
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Sally Gross
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Post by Sally Gross » Sun Aug 05, 2012 11:14 pm

Norwegian wrote:Very simple:

"A teaching on Dzogchen." :)

(As far as suggesting the book "Guruyoga", that won't help as it's restricted. I echo the recommendation of "The Crystal and the Way of Light", as reading material.)
Dzogchen: The Self-Perfected State is a good point of entry. I'd be inclined to recommend it as a first book, and to recommend The Crystal and the Way of Light as a follow-up. I joined DC before following my first webcast, and was allowed to purchase Guruyoga in order to prepare for the webcast, on the understanding that I wouldn't practice before I received the transmission.
Dukkham eva hi, na koci dukkhito,
kaarako na, kiriyaa va vijjati,
atthi nibbuti, na nibbuto pumaa,
maggam atthi, gamako na vijjati


Suffering there certainly is, but no sufferer,
no doer, though certainly the deed is found.
peace is achieved, but no-one's appeased,
the way is walked, but no walker's to be found.

- Visuddhimagga XVI, 90

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Sally Gross
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Post by Sally Gross » Sun Aug 05, 2012 11:30 pm

Pero wrote:
Blue Garuda wrote:Just giving a beginner's view.

Tune into the first session and 'we begin with Guruyoga' . Eh ? Oh, and afterwards you find there was DI ?
I'm sorry but I really don't get it. He usually explains GY on the first day and how can you not know there was a DI?
I recall being confused when I followed my first webcast a few months ago. I had read Dzogchen: The Self-Perfected State and The Crystal and the Way of Light, as well as a book by Rigdzin Shikpo (Mike Hookham) and knew that I needed to receive DI, but had no real idea of what to expect. On the first day of the webcast, much went way over my head; but I accepted on faith that I had indeed received DI and that I did not need to get my kishkes in a twist agonising over whether it had actually "taken". The entire retreat was rather confusing despite my having taken been at pains to prepare for it. Picking up terminology and getting a sense of the way things hang together takes time: the schematic diagrams at the end ofThe Crystal and the Way of Light do give an overview, but time is needed to make sense of these for oneself and to internalise them. One needs to have made sense of a ceretain amount already in order to be able to understand what is explained in the webcasts, even when what is covered is fairly basic. I can conceive of people who, not knowing exactly what to expect on the first day, do not in fact realise that there was a DI.
Dukkham eva hi, na koci dukkhito,
kaarako na, kiriyaa va vijjati,
atthi nibbuti, na nibbuto pumaa,
maggam atthi, gamako na vijjati


Suffering there certainly is, but no sufferer,
no doer, though certainly the deed is found.
peace is achieved, but no-one's appeased,
the way is walked, but no walker's to be found.

- Visuddhimagga XVI, 90

username
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Post by username » Mon Aug 06, 2012 2:07 am

Then ChNNR says he realized his master was giving DI all the time by various means everyday regularly but before realizing his natural state, he didn't realize what the master was doing. Such an integrated master like him and now ChNNR do so voluntarily or involuntarily or effortlessly and in fact all their life becomes a teaching and indeed DI. He began watching his guru receive sick people and saw everything he did was a teaching too and also often DI. But few realized like before his own successful DI when he didn't notice either. I used to be bothered by ChNNR constantly tapping on his table and thought someone in the audience was distracting people or bothering him. About six months ago he said when he took his students to see Tulku Urgyen Rinpoche he noticed TUR gives DI to all sorts of people by various interesting means constantly. One of them was by suddenly banging on the table in front of him when he was giving a teaching to ChNNR's students. He said I thought that was very good by TUR and now I notice I do that myself all the time.
Dzogchen masters I know say: 1)Buddhist religion essence is Dzogchen 2)Religions are positive by intent/fruit 3)Any method's OK unless: breaking Dzogchen vows, mixed as syncretic (Milanese Soup) 4)Don't join mandalas of opponents of Dalai Lama/Padmasambhava: False Deity inventors by encouraging victims 5)Don't debate Ati with others 6)Don't discuss Ati practices online 7) A master told his old disciple: no one's to discuss his teaching with some others on a former forum nor mention him. Publicity's OK, questions are asked from masters/set teachers in person/email/non-public forums~Best wishes

humanpreta
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Post by humanpreta » Mon Aug 06, 2012 3:44 am

humanpreta wrote:Hi everyone. If anyone knows the answers to my questions, I'd be very happy to have some clarification.

I'm confused about the Shitro teachings that Rinpoche is giving during the present retreat.

1) How is this shitro teaching (including many mantras) different from the shitro lung he always gives on the last day of retreats?

2) What is Dampa Roggy?

3) What practice is Man-ngag Tagdrol Gyud?

4) What is the difference between the 6 spaces of Samanta Bhadra and 25 spaces of Samanta Bhadra?

5) Do the 6 and 25 spaces have any specific relationship to shitro?

6) My father is interested in connecting with the teaching and this would be his first retreat. Will Rinpoche be giving direct introduction at some point during the remainder of the retreat? If so, can a newcomer tune in just for that?

THANKS!!!
Thanks to those who responded to some of my questions. I know Malcolm addressed Man ngag Tagdrol Gyud, but he didn't say what practice it is. So what practice is it?

Also, no one addressed questions 4 and 5.

Also, I know DI was already given, but will he give it again during this retreat.

THANKS IN ADVANCE FRIENDS!!!

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Sally Gross
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Post by Sally Gross » Mon Aug 06, 2012 6:57 am

humanpreta wrote: Also, I know DI was already given, but will he give it again during this retreat.
It is prudent to assume that he will not. Day 1 of retreats are always flagged for DI.
Dukkham eva hi, na koci dukkhito,
kaarako na, kiriyaa va vijjati,
atthi nibbuti, na nibbuto pumaa,
maggam atthi, gamako na vijjati


Suffering there certainly is, but no sufferer,
no doer, though certainly the deed is found.
peace is achieved, but no-one's appeased,
the way is walked, but no walker's to be found.

- Visuddhimagga XVI, 90

dakini_boi
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Post by dakini_boi » Mon Aug 06, 2012 7:15 am

I am listening to the replay of the Tokyo Upadesha retreat from June 1-5. Am I authorized to practice the techniques he describes, having received the teaching through replays?

Norwegian
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Post by Norwegian » Mon Aug 06, 2012 7:23 am

ChNN said in yesterday's webcast, like he has said before many times, that in order to receive transmission for the practices he gives, you must be participating in a retreat when it happens live (be it in person or through webcast). You cannot just listen to replays and then take up a practice, if you haven't received transmission.
"The Guru is the Buddha, the Guru is the Dharma,
The Guru is the Sangha too,
The Guru is Śrī Heruka.
The All-Creating King is the Guru."

-- The Secret Assembly Tantra

Pero
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Post by Pero » Mon Aug 06, 2012 9:55 am

Sally Gross wrote:One needs to have made sense of a ceretain amount already in order to be able to understand what is explained in the webcasts, even when what is covered is fairly basic.
Maybe, though as far as I can remember this hasn't been my experience. And IMO most of the time Rinpoche teaches as if to complete beginners. I think trying to greatly prepare yourself before a teaching is pretty much an exercise in futility.
I can conceive of people who, not knowing exactly what to expect on the first day, do not in fact realise that there was a DI.
Usually DI is on the second day. But I just realized we may not be thinking about the same thing. I was thinking when he uses a particular method to do it. I can understand when there is no particular method we might not realize he is doing it if he doesn't tell us.
Although many individuals in this age appear to be merely indulging their worldly desires, one does not have the capacity to judge them, so it is best to train in pure vision.
- Shabkar

Pero
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Post by Pero » Mon Aug 06, 2012 10:49 am

humanpreta wrote:Thanks to those who responded to some of my questions. I know Malcolm addressed Man ngag Tagdrol Gyud, but he didn't say what practice it is. So what practice is it?
It isn't a practice, it's a tantra.
Also, no one addressed questions 4 and 5.
Well, one difference is the 6 spaces is one mantra and the 25 spaces are 25 mantras. Don't know about relationship with Shitro.
Also, I know DI was already given, but will he give it again during this retreat.
I don't think so. I don't recall any teaching where he gave it twice.
Although many individuals in this age appear to be merely indulging their worldly desires, one does not have the capacity to judge them, so it is best to train in pure vision.
- Shabkar

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