Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

dharmafootsteps
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Post by dharmafootsteps » Sun Mar 04, 2018 4:33 am

Where would be an appropriate place to contemplate the four thoughts that turn the mind during the short/medium thun? I've generally heard it recommended that if another practice is going to be inserted, to do it at the end, before dedicating/empowering the merit.

As the four thoughts are usually done at the start of a practice though, would it be ok to do straight after the purification of the elements? I'm basing that on Tsoknyi Rinpoche's teaching here: https://tsoknyirinpoche.org/teachings/h ... e-session/ where he suggests reflecting on the four thoughts as part of a sort of preparation before the formal practice begins/refuge.

amanitamusc
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Post by amanitamusc » Sun Mar 04, 2018 4:58 am

dharmafootsteps wrote:
Sun Mar 04, 2018 4:33 am
Where would be an appropriate place to contemplate the four thoughts that turn the mind during the short/medium thun? I've generally heard it recommended that if another practice is going to be inserted, to do it at the end, before dedicating/empowering the merit.

As the four thoughts are usually done at the start of a practice though, would it be ok to do straight after the purification of the elements? I'm basing that on Tsoknyi Rinpoche's teaching here: https://tsoknyirinpoche.org/teachings/h ... e-session/ where he suggests reflecting on the four thoughts as part of a sort of preparation before the formal practice begins/refuge.
Since you post in this particular forum on the "four thoughts" you will
find the information you are looking for in "The Precious Vase".

dharmafootsteps
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Post by dharmafootsteps » Sun Mar 04, 2018 5:10 am

amanitamusc wrote:
Sun Mar 04, 2018 4:58 am
Since you post in this particular forum on the "four thoughts" you will
find the information you are looking for in "The Precious Vase".
Thanks, I've just had another look at "The Precious Vase", it's very clear on the essential point of the "four awarenesses", but it doesn't seem to give any advice on how to include them in a formal practice session to cultivate/keep alive their presence.

Joseph
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Post by Joseph » Sun Mar 04, 2018 9:11 am

dharmafootsteps wrote:
Sun Mar 04, 2018 5:10 am
amanitamusc wrote:
Sun Mar 04, 2018 4:58 am
Since you post in this particular forum on the "four thoughts" you will
find the information you are looking for in "The Precious Vase".
Thanks, I've just had another look at "The Precious Vase", it's very clear on the essential point of the "four awarenesses", but it doesn't seem to give any advice on how to include them in a formal practice session to cultivate/keep alive their presence.
There is a booklet that is titled something along the lines of 'Preliminary practices for the base of SMS' , it is a collection of verses that, from what I gather, are to be utilized as a prior to practice in the role of a preliminary . They include the four awarenesses among others.
:smile:

Miroku
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Post by Miroku » Sun Mar 04, 2018 11:20 am

dharmafootsteps wrote:
Sun Mar 04, 2018 4:33 am
Where would be an appropriate place to contemplate the four thoughts that turn the mind during the short/medium thun? I've generally heard it recommended that if another practice is going to be inserted, to do it at the end, before dedicating/empowering the merit.

As the four thoughts are usually done at the start of a practice though, would it be ok to do straight after the purification of the elements? I'm basing that on Tsoknyi Rinpoche's teaching here: https://tsoknyirinpoche.org/teachings/h ... e-session/ where he suggests reflecting on the four thoughts as part of a sort of preparation before the formal practice begins/refuge.
Prior to practice. Otherwise keep them on your mind for the rest of your life.
Child, if you are not hypocritical and out of control, that is conduct.
~ Padampa Sangye

You say such clever things to people, but you do not apply them to yourself.
The faults within you are the ones to be exposed.
~ Padampa Sangye

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Vasana
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Post by Vasana » Sun Mar 04, 2018 12:04 pm

Miroku wrote:
Sun Mar 04, 2018 11:20 am
dharmafootsteps wrote:
Sun Mar 04, 2018 4:33 am
Where would be an appropriate place to contemplate the four thoughts that turn the mind during the short/medium thun? I've generally heard it recommended that if another practice is going to be inserted, to do it at the end, before dedicating/empowering the merit.

As the four thoughts are usually done at the start of a practice though, would it be ok to do straight after the purification of the elements? I'm basing that on Tsoknyi Rinpoche's teaching here: https://tsoknyirinpoche.org/teachings/h ... e-session/ where he suggests reflecting on the four thoughts as part of a sort of preparation before the formal practice begins/refuge.
Prior to practice. Otherwise keep them on your mind for the rest of your life.
+1

Focus on the thun during the thun and the 4 thoughts and all other methods of mind-training in seperate sessions and in daily life. Other traditions recommend dedicating short 3-5 min sessions foused on each of he 4 thoughts individually and this is fine too. Dedicating days or weeks to each is fine too and you can still do your other practices.
'When alone, watch your mind. When with others, watch your speech'- Old Kadampa saying.

dharmafootsteps
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Post by dharmafootsteps » Mon Mar 05, 2018 2:25 am

Joseph wrote:
Sun Mar 04, 2018 9:11 am
There is a booklet that is titled something along the lines of 'Preliminary practices for the base of SMS' , it is a collection of verses that, from what I gather, are to be utilized as a prior to practice in the role of a preliminary . They include the four awarenesses among others.
:smile:
Miroku wrote:
Sun Mar 04, 2018 11:20 am
Prior to practice. Otherwise keep them on your mind for the rest of your life.
Vasana wrote:
Sun Mar 04, 2018 12:04 pm
+1

Focus on the thun during the thun and the 4 thoughts and all other methods of mind-training in seperate sessions and in daily life. Other traditions recommend dedicating short 3-5 min sessions foused on each of he 4 thoughts individually and this is fine too. Dedicating days or weeks to each is fine too and you can still do your other practices.
Perfect, thank you so much all! With no other DC practitioners around here this forum is such a blessing!

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Aryjna
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Post by Aryjna » Wed Mar 07, 2018 12:43 pm

Does someone know if this is exactly the same as the six lokas purification in the Precious Vase etc? Or is it a different variation? http://shop.shangshungfoundation.com/en ... results=26

Lukeinaz
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Post by Lukeinaz » Wed Mar 07, 2018 10:36 pm

Aryjna wrote:
Wed Mar 07, 2018 12:43 pm
Does someone know if this is exactly the same as the six lokas purification in the Precious Vase etc? Or is it a different variation? http://shop.shangshungfoundation.com/en ... results=26
No it's different. I ordered it thinking it was the same. I put it away for now, as I am unsure if DI is enough to use it?
There never will be freedom, for there never has been bondage.--Longchen Rabjam

Norwegian
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Post by Norwegian » Wed Mar 07, 2018 10:37 pm

Lukeinaz wrote:
Wed Mar 07, 2018 10:36 pm
Aryjna wrote:
Wed Mar 07, 2018 12:43 pm
Does someone know if this is exactly the same as the six lokas purification in the Precious Vase etc? Or is it a different variation? http://shop.shangshungfoundation.com/en ... results=26
No it's different. I ordered it thinking it was the same. I put it away for now, as I am unsure if DI is enough to use it?
You need to receive this practice separately. It's from the Longsal cycle.

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Aryjna
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Post by Aryjna » Wed Mar 07, 2018 10:40 pm

Lukeinaz wrote:
Wed Mar 07, 2018 10:36 pm
Aryjna wrote:
Wed Mar 07, 2018 12:43 pm
Does someone know if this is exactly the same as the six lokas purification in the Precious Vase etc? Or is it a different variation? http://shop.shangshungfoundation.com/en ... results=26
No it's different. I ordered it thinking it was the same. I put it away for now, as I am unsure if DI is enough to use it?
Thanks. It is strange that some important practices do not have their own books, this and Shitro at least. So the only option is to get the small booklet with the collective practices, though I am not so sure there are very extensive instructions in there.

Hansei
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Post by Hansei » Wed Mar 07, 2018 11:15 pm

Aryjna wrote:
Wed Mar 07, 2018 10:40 pm
Lukeinaz wrote:
Wed Mar 07, 2018 10:36 pm
Aryjna wrote:
Wed Mar 07, 2018 12:43 pm
Does someone know if this is exactly the same as the six lokas purification in the Precious Vase etc? Or is it a different variation? http://shop.shangshungfoundation.com/en ... results=26
No it's different. I ordered it thinking it was the same. I put it away for now, as I am unsure if DI is enough to use it?
Thanks. It is strange that some important practices do not have their own books, this and Shitro at least. So the only option is to get the small booklet with the collective practices, though I am not so sure there are very extensive instructions in there.
There is a book for Shitro.

http://shop.shangshungfoundation.com/en ... 55750.html

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Aryjna
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Post by Aryjna » Wed Mar 07, 2018 11:19 pm

Hansei wrote:
Wed Mar 07, 2018 11:15 pm
Aryjna wrote:
Wed Mar 07, 2018 10:40 pm
Lukeinaz wrote:
Wed Mar 07, 2018 10:36 pm


No it's different. I ordered it thinking it was the same. I put it away for now, as I am unsure if DI is enough to use it?
Thanks. It is strange that some important practices do not have their own books, this and Shitro at least. So the only option is to get the small booklet with the collective practices, though I am not so sure there are very extensive instructions in there.
There is a book for Shitro.

http://shop.shangshungfoundation.com/en ... 55750.html
This is also for Yangti and according to the website you cannot get it if you have not been to a Yangti retreat.

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treehuggingoctopus
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Post by treehuggingoctopus » Wed Mar 07, 2018 11:26 pm

Aryjna wrote:
Wed Mar 07, 2018 11:19 pm
Hansei wrote:
Wed Mar 07, 2018 11:15 pm
Aryjna wrote:
Wed Mar 07, 2018 10:40 pm


Thanks. It is strange that some important practices do not have their own books, this and Shitro at least. So the only option is to get the small booklet with the collective practices, though I am not so sure there are very extensive instructions in there.
There is a book for Shitro.

http://shop.shangshungfoundation.com/en ... 55750.html
This is also for Yangti and according to the website you cannot get it if you have not been to a Yangti retreat.
You certainly can get it. The Yangti section does not include any actual Yangti teachings, just some general notes. (A very nice book, btw.)
. . . there they saw a rock! But it wasn't a rock . . .

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Aryjna
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Post by Aryjna » Wed Mar 07, 2018 11:34 pm

treehuggingoctopus wrote:
Wed Mar 07, 2018 11:26 pm
Aryjna wrote:
Wed Mar 07, 2018 11:19 pm
Hansei wrote:
Wed Mar 07, 2018 11:15 pm


There is a book for Shitro.

http://shop.shangshungfoundation.com/en ... 55750.html
This is also for Yangti and according to the website you cannot get it if you have not been to a Yangti retreat.
You certainly can get it. The Yangti section does not include any actual Yangti teachings, just some general notes. (A very nice book, btw.)
On the website there is a special message, when clicking on the link above instead of seeing the book information, like for the other books, there is only a message:

This is a special product related to Yangti teachings. It can be ordered only by those who participated in a Yangti retreat with Chögyal Namkhai Norbu. In order to be able to place the order, you need to perform the following steps: If you haven't already done so, please register in the webshop by creating an account.
Once registred, please contact us via the contact form and specify your name and dates of the Yangti retreat you participated in.

This does not seem to make much sense as it seems to be freely available in the Dzamling Gar book store (while there are some other books like the Longsal volumes that are locked separately)

Lukeinaz
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Post by Lukeinaz » Thu Mar 08, 2018 12:16 am

Norwegian wrote:
Wed Mar 07, 2018 10:37 pm
Lukeinaz wrote:
Wed Mar 07, 2018 10:36 pm
Aryjna wrote:
Wed Mar 07, 2018 12:43 pm
Does someone know if this is exactly the same as the six lokas purification in the Precious Vase etc? Or is it a different variation? http://shop.shangshungfoundation.com/en ... results=26

No it's different. I ordered it thinking it was the same. I put it away for now, as I am unsure if DI is enough to use it?
You need to receive this practice separately. It's from the Longsal cycle.

Thanks for the clarification.
There never will be freedom, for there never has been bondage.--Longchen Rabjam

meepits
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Post by meepits » Thu Mar 08, 2018 3:03 am

Reading The Practice in Daily Life, and enjoying him complaining about people who send him 5 page emails.

Also enjoying the fact that he pushes the reader to talk to other students about questions, which makes me think of this thread itself as a thing that ChNN supports.

I’m curious what daily Guruyoga looks like for others on here? Is it usually the simple practice with white A and thigle? For others, is it just trying to remain constantly in rigpa? do others prefer more complex visualizations? what times of day do you do what you do, etc? Any thoughts you could share about your practice would be interesting.

I’ve just learned to visualize a decent white A + thigle and keep that stable within instant presence. Part of me thinks that while there are times for this visualization (like once in the morning and once at night), still I need to just focus on rigpa-as-guruyoga throughout the day.

climb-up
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Post by climb-up » Thu Mar 08, 2018 6:08 am

Aryjna wrote:
Wed Mar 07, 2018 11:34 pm
treehuggingoctopus wrote:
Wed Mar 07, 2018 11:26 pm
Aryjna wrote:
Wed Mar 07, 2018 11:19 pm


This is also for Yangti and according to the website you cannot get it if you have not been to a Yangti retreat.
You certainly can get it. The Yangti section does not include any actual Yangti teachings, just some general notes. (A very nice book, btw.)
On the website there is a special message, when clicking on the link above instead of seeing the book information, like for the other books, there is only a message:

This is a special product related to Yangti teachings. It can be ordered only by those who participated in a Yangti retreat with Chögyal Namkhai Norbu. In order to be able to place the order, you need to perform the following steps: If you haven't already done so, please register in the webshop by creating an account.
Once registred, please contact us via the contact form and specify your name and dates of the Yangti retreat you participated in.

This does not seem to make much sense as it seems to be freely available in the Dzamling Gar book store (while there are some other books like the Longsal volumes that are locked separately)
I got it and just don't read the Yangti part.
The Shitro practice really wonderful.

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treehuggingoctopus
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Post by treehuggingoctopus » Thu Mar 08, 2018 9:24 am

Aryjna wrote:
Wed Mar 07, 2018 11:34 pm
treehuggingoctopus wrote:
Wed Mar 07, 2018 11:26 pm
Aryjna wrote:
Wed Mar 07, 2018 11:19 pm


This is also for Yangti and according to the website you cannot get it if you have not been to a Yangti retreat.
You certainly can get it. The Yangti section does not include any actual Yangti teachings, just some general notes. (A very nice book, btw.)
On the website there is a special message, when clicking on the link above instead of seeing the book information, like for the other books, there is only a message:

This is a special product related to Yangti teachings. It can be ordered only by those who participated in a Yangti retreat with Chögyal Namkhai Norbu. In order to be able to place the order, you need to perform the following steps: If you haven't already done so, please register in the webshop by creating an account.
Once registred, please contact us via the contact form and specify your name and dates of the Yangti retreat you participated in.

This does not seem to make much sense as it seems to be freely available in the Dzamling Gar book store (while there are some other books like the Longsal volumes that are locked separately)
It is a mistake.

If you have not attended a Longsal Yangti retreat, you cannot buy/read the Longsal Yangti book. But in Shitro and Yangti Teachings, in the Yangti section, Rinpoche actually explains that what he is teaching (in the retreat whose transcript the book consists in) is in no way real Yangti, just some preliminaries and general background. And at some point he also asks people to stop pestering him to give them Yangti teachings, which he deems (or deemed at the time) too advanced for them.

If you have the time, consider writing to the webshop and telling them they have got it wrong, will you?
. . . there they saw a rock! But it wasn't a rock . . .

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Aryjna
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Post by Aryjna » Thu Mar 08, 2018 10:03 am

treehuggingoctopus wrote:
Thu Mar 08, 2018 9:24 am
Aryjna wrote:
Wed Mar 07, 2018 11:34 pm
treehuggingoctopus wrote:
Wed Mar 07, 2018 11:26 pm


You certainly can get it. The Yangti section does not include any actual Yangti teachings, just some general notes. (A very nice book, btw.)
On the website there is a special message, when clicking on the link above instead of seeing the book information, like for the other books, there is only a message:

This is a special product related to Yangti teachings. It can be ordered only by those who participated in a Yangti retreat with Chögyal Namkhai Norbu. In order to be able to place the order, you need to perform the following steps: If you haven't already done so, please register in the webshop by creating an account.
Once registred, please contact us via the contact form and specify your name and dates of the Yangti retreat you participated in.

This does not seem to make much sense as it seems to be freely available in the Dzamling Gar book store (while there are some other books like the Longsal volumes that are locked separately)
It is a mistake.

If you have not attended a Longsal Yangti retreat, you cannot buy/read the Longsal Yangti book. But in Shitro and Yangti Teachings, in the Yangti section, Rinpoche actually explains that what he is teaching (in the retreat whose transcript the book consists in) is in no way real Yangti, just some preliminaries and general background. And at some point he also asks people to stop pestering him to give them Yangti teachings, which he deems (or deemed at the time) too advanced for them.

If you have the time, consider writing to the webshop and telling them they have got it wrong, will you?
Thanks, I sent them an email yesterday.

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