Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

LolCat
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Post by LolCat » Wed Jul 04, 2018 11:41 pm

Oh darn, my first call is on the day of my foe. :rolling: I have an 'Auspicious' planet and an 'Excellent' element of the day as well, so hopefully it will cancel out, along with the help of bad to good day mantra and prayers. Thank you for the advice, I will get both the books. I have been looking at the app more frequently these days so might as well learn these things properly.

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Dorje Shedrub
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Post by Dorje Shedrub » Thu Jul 05, 2018 1:21 am

Could someone please PM me the mantra for reversing negative days? I have the lung, but my calendar app doesnt have it.

DS
Homage to the Precious Dzogchen Master
🙏🌺🙏 Chögyal Namkhai Norbu Rinpoche
🙏🌺🙏

Temicco
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Post by Temicco » Sun Jul 08, 2018 1:16 am

I am confused about samaya w/ ChNN's worldwide empowerments. I've tried looking into the subject here and elsewhere online, but found no definitive answers. I've taken the empowerment a few times, the very first being almost 3 years ago, without knowing whether there's a samaya associated with it. So, is there a samaya, or no?
"Deliberate upon that which does not deliberate."
-Yaoshan Weiyan

ཚེ་འདི་ལ་ཞེན་ན་ཆོས་པ་མིན། །
འཁོར་བ་ལ་ཞེན་ན་ངེས་འབྱུང་མིན། །
བདག་དོན་ལ་ཞེན་ན་བྱང་སེམས་མིན། །
འཛིན་པ་བྱུང་ན་ལྟ་བ་མིན། །

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Virgo
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Post by Virgo » Sun Jul 08, 2018 1:35 am

Temicco wrote:
Sun Jul 08, 2018 1:16 am
I am confused about samaya w/ ChNN's worldwide empowerments. I've tried looking into the subject here and elsewhere online, but found no definitive answers. I've taken the empowerment a few times, the very first being almost 3 years ago, without knowing whether there's a samaya associated with it. So, is there a samaya, or no?
Yes, do GY (Guru Yoga) everyday. This can be just GY of the White AH, totally fine.

sarva mangalam.

Kevin...

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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Post by Temicco » Sun Jul 08, 2018 2:05 am

Virgo wrote:
Sun Jul 08, 2018 1:35 am
Temicco wrote:
Sun Jul 08, 2018 1:16 am
I am confused about samaya w/ ChNN's worldwide empowerments. I've tried looking into the subject here and elsewhere online, but found no definitive answers. I've taken the empowerment a few times, the very first being almost 3 years ago, without knowing whether there's a samaya associated with it. So, is there a samaya, or no?
Yes, do GY (Guru Yoga) everyday. This can be just GY of the White AH, totally fine.

sarva mangalam.

Kevin...
Thank you. If I haven't been doing so, how do I repair that?

Also, can I ask where you heard this from? It is better safe than sorry of course, but I asked one practitioner who used to help prep people for the empowerments, and she said there was no samaya. I am just confused at the discrepancy.
"Deliberate upon that which does not deliberate."
-Yaoshan Weiyan

ཚེ་འདི་ལ་ཞེན་ན་ཆོས་པ་མིན། །
འཁོར་བ་ལ་ཞེན་ན་ངེས་འབྱུང་མིན། །
བདག་དོན་ལ་ཞེན་ན་བྱང་སེམས་མིན། །
འཛིན་པ་བྱུང་ན་ལྟ་བ་མིན། །

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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Post by Virgo » Sun Jul 08, 2018 2:20 am

Temicco wrote:
Sun Jul 08, 2018 2:05 am

Thank you. If I haven't been doing so, how do I repair that?
The best way to repair is to begin doing it, but of course you can use purifications too.

I know because we are repeatedly exhorted by Rinpoche to do this practice, at minimum.

Kevin...

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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Post by Johnny Dangerous » Sun Jul 08, 2018 2:22 am

Temicco wrote:
Sun Jul 08, 2018 2:05 am
Virgo wrote:
Sun Jul 08, 2018 1:35 am
Temicco wrote:
Sun Jul 08, 2018 1:16 am
I am confused about samaya w/ ChNN's worldwide empowerments. I've tried looking into the subject here and elsewhere online, but found no definitive answers. I've taken the empowerment a few times, the very first being almost 3 years ago, without knowing whether there's a samaya associated with it. So, is there a samaya, or no?
Yes, do GY (Guru Yoga) everyday. This can be just GY of the White AH, totally fine.

sarva mangalam.

Kevin...
Thank you. If I haven't been doing so, how do I repair that?

Also, can I ask where you heard this from? It is better safe than sorry of course, but I asked one practitioner who used to help prep people for the empowerments, and she said there was no samaya. I am just confused at the discrepancy.
Rinpoche says this pretty much constantly, GY is the practice to do. He's not saying don't do other things, but He consistently says that being present and doing GY is the best thing to do. AFAIK, none of the secondary practices taught in the DC carry commitments in the way that some Tantric empowerments do.
There's no hoarding what has vanished,
No piling up for the future;
Those who have been born are standing
Like a seed upon a needle.

-Guhatthaka-suttaniddeso

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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Post by Temicco » Sun Jul 08, 2018 2:47 am

Johnny Dangerous wrote:
Sun Jul 08, 2018 2:22 am
Temicco wrote:
Sun Jul 08, 2018 2:05 am
Virgo wrote:
Sun Jul 08, 2018 1:35 am

Yes, do GY (Guru Yoga) everyday. This can be just GY of the White AH, totally fine.

sarva mangalam.

Kevin...
Thank you. If I haven't been doing so, how do I repair that?

Also, can I ask where you heard this from? It is better safe than sorry of course, but I asked one practitioner who used to help prep people for the empowerments, and she said there was no samaya. I am just confused at the discrepancy.
Rinpoche says this pretty much constantly, GY is the practice to do. He's not saying don't do other things, but He consistently says that being present and doing GY is the best thing to do. AFAIK, none of the secondary practices taught in the DC carry commitments in the way that some Tantric empowerments do.
Okay. I have seen him emphasize this too, but I am not sure how to take it -- if it is actually a samaya, then don't you only have 3 years to repair it, and then you're kinda screwed? That is very different from just a strong and unequivocal call to do the practice. If it is just the latter, then I have no problem abiding by it, but if it is a samaya, then I would want to be careful and make sure to repair it etc. within the next couple months. (For context, ChNN is my first exposure to Vajrayana as a whole, so I am still in the process of untangling dzogchen from tantra and ChNN's Dzogchen from that of other teachers, etc.)

What do you mean by "secondary practice" exactly? / Are you saying that even his worldwide empowerments don't include samaya in the same way as other tantric teachings?
"Deliberate upon that which does not deliberate."
-Yaoshan Weiyan

ཚེ་འདི་ལ་ཞེན་ན་ཆོས་པ་མིན། །
འཁོར་བ་ལ་ཞེན་ན་ངེས་འབྱུང་མིན། །
བདག་དོན་ལ་ཞེན་ན་བྱང་སེམས་མིན། །
འཛིན་པ་བྱུང་ན་ལྟ་བ་མིན། །

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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Post by Aryjna » Sun Jul 08, 2018 5:52 am

Temicco wrote:
Sun Jul 08, 2018 2:47 am
Johnny Dangerous wrote:
Sun Jul 08, 2018 2:22 am
Temicco wrote:
Sun Jul 08, 2018 2:05 am


Thank you. If I haven't been doing so, how do I repair that?

Also, can I ask where you heard this from? It is better safe than sorry of course, but I asked one practitioner who used to help prep people for the empowerments, and she said there was no samaya. I am just confused at the discrepancy.
Rinpoche says this pretty much constantly, GY is the practice to do. He's not saying don't do other things, but He consistently says that being present and doing GY is the best thing to do. AFAIK, none of the secondary practices taught in the DC carry commitments in the way that some Tantric empowerments do.
Okay. I have seen him emphasize this too, but I am not sure how to take it -- if it is actually a samaya, then don't you only have 3 years to repair it, and then you're kinda screwed? That is very different from just a strong and unequivocal call to do the practice. If it is just the latter, then I have no problem abiding by it, but if it is a samaya, then I would want to be careful and make sure to repair it etc. within the next couple months. (For context, ChNN is my first exposure to Vajrayana as a whole, so I am still in the process of untangling dzogchen from tantra and ChNN's Dzogchen from that of other teachers, etc.)

What do you mean by "secondary practice" exactly? / Are you saying that even his worldwide empowerments don't include samaya in the same way as other tantric teachings?
He clearly explains that there is samaya. For example, in Teachings on Tun and Ganapuja.

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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Post by Temicco » Sun Jul 08, 2018 2:54 pm

Aryjna wrote:
Sun Jul 08, 2018 5:52 am
Temicco wrote:
Sun Jul 08, 2018 2:47 am
Johnny Dangerous wrote:
Sun Jul 08, 2018 2:22 am


Rinpoche says this pretty much constantly, GY is the practice to do. He's not saying don't do other things, but He consistently says that being present and doing GY is the best thing to do. AFAIK, none of the secondary practices taught in the DC carry commitments in the way that some Tantric empowerments do.
Okay. I have seen him emphasize this too, but I am not sure how to take it -- if it is actually a samaya, then don't you only have 3 years to repair it, and then you're kinda screwed? That is very different from just a strong and unequivocal call to do the practice. If it is just the latter, then I have no problem abiding by it, but if it is a samaya, then I would want to be careful and make sure to repair it etc. within the next couple months. (For context, ChNN is my first exposure to Vajrayana as a whole, so I am still in the process of untangling dzogchen from tantra and ChNN's Dzogchen from that of other teachers, etc.)

What do you mean by "secondary practice" exactly? / Are you saying that even his worldwide empowerments don't include samaya in the same way as other tantric teachings?
He clearly explains that there is samaya. For example, in Teachings on Tun and Ganapuja.
Okay, thank you. Is this just to do Guruyoga every day, as Kevin said? (odd that this is explained in books not related to the empowerment, and not in e.g. Guruyoga...)

Also, how does one repair this samaya in DC?
"Deliberate upon that which does not deliberate."
-Yaoshan Weiyan

ཚེ་འདི་ལ་ཞེན་ན་ཆོས་པ་མིན། །
འཁོར་བ་ལ་ཞེན་ན་ངེས་འབྱུང་མིན། །
བདག་དོན་ལ་ཞེན་ན་བྱང་སེམས་མིན། །
འཛིན་པ་བྱུང་ན་ལྟ་བ་མིན། །

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Miroku
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Post by Miroku » Sun Jul 08, 2018 3:13 pm

Temicco wrote:
Sun Jul 08, 2018 2:54 pm
Aryjna wrote:
Sun Jul 08, 2018 5:52 am
Temicco wrote:
Sun Jul 08, 2018 2:47 am


Okay. I have seen him emphasize this too, but I am not sure how to take it -- if it is actually a samaya, then don't you only have 3 years to repair it, and then you're kinda screwed? That is very different from just a strong and unequivocal call to do the practice. If it is just the latter, then I have no problem abiding by it, but if it is a samaya, then I would want to be careful and make sure to repair it etc. within the next couple months. (For context, ChNN is my first exposure to Vajrayana as a whole, so I am still in the process of untangling dzogchen from tantra and ChNN's Dzogchen from that of other teachers, etc.)

What do you mean by "secondary practice" exactly? / Are you saying that even his worldwide empowerments don't include samaya in the same way as other tantric teachings?
He clearly explains that there is samaya. For example, in Teachings on Tun and Ganapuja.
Okay, thank you. Is this just to do Guruyoga every day, as Kevin said? (odd that this is explained in books not related to the empowerment, and not in e.g. Guruyoga...)

Also, how does one repair this samaya in DC?
Just like everywhere. Either Vajrasattva or even better ganapuja. It is always good to attend ganapujas.
A boat delivers you to the other riverbank.
A needle stitches up your clothes.
A horse takes you where you want to go.
Bodhicitta will bring you to Buddhahood.
~ Khunu Lama Rinpoche

Even non-buddhists have many virtuous accomplishments
~ Jigten Sumgon

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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Post by florin » Sun Jul 08, 2018 3:39 pm

Temicco wrote:
Sun Jul 08, 2018 2:54 pm
Aryjna wrote:
Sun Jul 08, 2018 5:52 am
Temicco wrote:
Sun Jul 08, 2018 2:47 am


Okay. I have seen him emphasize this too, but I am not sure how to take it -- if it is actually a samaya, then don't you only have 3 years to repair it, and then you're kinda screwed? That is very different from just a strong and unequivocal call to do the practice. If it is just the latter, then I have no problem abiding by it, but if it is a samaya, then I would want to be careful and make sure to repair it etc. within the next couple months. (For context, ChNN is my first exposure to Vajrayana as a whole, so I am still in the process of untangling dzogchen from tantra and ChNN's Dzogchen from that of other teachers, etc.)

What do you mean by "secondary practice" exactly? / Are you saying that even his worldwide empowerments don't include samaya in the same way as other tantric teachings?
He clearly explains that there is samaya. For example, in Teachings on Tun and Ganapuja.
Okay, thank you. Is this just to do Guruyoga every day, as Kevin said? (odd that this is explained in books not related to the empowerment, and not in e.g. Guruyoga...)

Also, how does one repair this samaya in DC?
Vajrasattva.
Make sure you you do it in the context of the four powers.
Then it will function as it should.
“The path of the supreme yoga it is not the path of accomplished sages of the past. Whoever enters onto the path of the sages of the past will end up gripped by the sicknesses of the path - meditation, attachment, and exertion.”Thig le drug pa.

“Everything of the universe of saṃsāra and nirvāṇa arises as the enlightened energy of the one self-perfected Natural Presence. But these teachers still mistakenly teach that disciples should fabricate enlightenment by applying discipline, renunciation, interruption, purification and transformation”.

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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Post by Hansei » Sun Jul 08, 2018 4:14 pm

florin wrote:
Sun Jul 08, 2018 3:39 pm
Vajrasattva.
Make sure you you do it in the context of the four powers.
Then it will function as it should.
Is there any good and reliable explanation on the Internet about how to do it that way?

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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Post by florin » Sun Jul 08, 2018 4:44 pm

Hansei wrote:
Sun Jul 08, 2018 4:14 pm
florin wrote:
Sun Jul 08, 2018 3:39 pm
Vajrasattva.
Make sure you you do it in the context of the four powers.
Then it will function as it should.
Is there any good and reliable explanation on the Internet about how to do it that way?
I dont know about internet but in short we start acknowledging and recognizing that we made a mistake, we feel sorry and regret our mistake followed by a determination not to repeat that in the future.And while we do the practice we generate a feeling of purity , we feel pure and understand that the errors we committed with regards to Buddha(our guru) Dharma (the transmission of knowledge ) and Sangha(the community that shares this transmission) have all been purified. Feeling pure is very important.
“The path of the supreme yoga it is not the path of accomplished sages of the past. Whoever enters onto the path of the sages of the past will end up gripped by the sicknesses of the path - meditation, attachment, and exertion.”Thig le drug pa.

“Everything of the universe of saṃsāra and nirvāṇa arises as the enlightened energy of the one self-perfected Natural Presence. But these teachers still mistakenly teach that disciples should fabricate enlightenment by applying discipline, renunciation, interruption, purification and transformation”.

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Aryjna
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Post by Aryjna » Sun Jul 08, 2018 4:57 pm

Temicco wrote:
Sun Jul 08, 2018 2:54 pm
Aryjna wrote:
Sun Jul 08, 2018 5:52 am
Temicco wrote:
Sun Jul 08, 2018 2:47 am


Okay. I have seen him emphasize this too, but I am not sure how to take it -- if it is actually a samaya, then don't you only have 3 years to repair it, and then you're kinda screwed? That is very different from just a strong and unequivocal call to do the practice. If it is just the latter, then I have no problem abiding by it, but if it is a samaya, then I would want to be careful and make sure to repair it etc. within the next couple months. (For context, ChNN is my first exposure to Vajrayana as a whole, so I am still in the process of untangling dzogchen from tantra and ChNN's Dzogchen from that of other teachers, etc.)

What do you mean by "secondary practice" exactly? / Are you saying that even his worldwide empowerments don't include samaya in the same way as other tantric teachings?
He clearly explains that there is samaya. For example, in Teachings on Tun and Ganapuja.
Okay, thank you. Is this just to do Guruyoga every day, as Kevin said? (odd that this is explained in books not related to the empowerment, and not in e.g. Guruyoga...)

Also, how does one repair this samaya in DC?
A very important part is the attitude etc. I think the best is to listen or read an explanation by ChNNR on the matter.

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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Post by chimechodra » Sun Jul 08, 2018 6:05 pm

Temicco wrote:
Sun Jul 08, 2018 2:47 am
Johnny Dangerous wrote:
Sun Jul 08, 2018 2:22 am
Temicco wrote:
Sun Jul 08, 2018 2:05 am


Thank you. If I haven't been doing so, how do I repair that?

Also, can I ask where you heard this from? It is better safe than sorry of course, but I asked one practitioner who used to help prep people for the empowerments, and she said there was no samaya. I am just confused at the discrepancy.
Rinpoche says this pretty much constantly, GY is the practice to do. He's not saying don't do other things, but He consistently says that being present and doing GY is the best thing to do. AFAIK, none of the secondary practices taught in the DC carry commitments in the way that some Tantric empowerments do.
Okay. I have seen him emphasize this too, but I am not sure how to take it -- if it is actually a samaya, then don't you only have 3 years to repair it, and then you're kinda screwed? That is very different from just a strong and unequivocal call to do the practice. If it is just the latter, then I have no problem abiding by it, but if it is a samaya, then I would want to be careful and make sure to repair it etc. within the next couple months. (For context, ChNN is my first exposure to Vajrayana as a whole, so I am still in the process of untangling dzogchen from tantra and ChNN's Dzogchen from that of other teachers, etc.)

What do you mean by "secondary practice" exactly? / Are you saying that even his worldwide empowerments don't include samaya in the same way as other tantric teachings?
Might not be a bad idea to email a Santi Maha Sangha instructor and ask them about samaya and not having interacted with the teachings for a number of years while still carrying the empowerment. I wouldn't worry too much, as long as you can start doing AGY from today on forward, you'll be fine. Also, re-take the upcoming world wide transmission, as receiving an empowerment can also help with repairing breaches in samaya. If you have the time, do ganapujas, preferably with other practitioners, during the full moon, new moon, dakini day, and Guru Rinpoche day.

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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Post by Johnny Dangerous » Sun Jul 08, 2018 6:44 pm

Temicco wrote:
Sun Jul 08, 2018 2:47 am
Johnny Dangerous wrote:
Sun Jul 08, 2018 2:22 am
Temicco wrote:
Sun Jul 08, 2018 2:05 am


Thank you. If I haven't been doing so, how do I repair that?

Also, can I ask where you heard this from? It is better safe than sorry of course, but I asked one practitioner who used to help prep people for the empowerments, and she said there was no samaya. I am just confused at the discrepancy.
Rinpoche says this pretty much constantly, GY is the practice to do. He's not saying don't do other things, but He consistently says that being present and doing GY is the best thing to do. AFAIK, none of the secondary practices taught in the DC carry commitments in the way that some Tantric empowerments do.
Okay. I have seen him emphasize this too, but I am not sure how to take it -- if it is actually a samaya, then don't you only have 3 years to repair it, and then you're kinda screwed? That is very different from just a strong and unequivocal call to do the practice. If it is just the latter, then I have no problem abiding by it, but if it is a samaya, then I would want to be careful and make sure to repair it etc. within the next couple months. (For context, ChNN is my first exposure to Vajrayana as a whole, so I am still in the process of untangling dzogchen from tantra and ChNN's Dzogchen from that of other teachers, etc.)

What do you mean by "secondary practice" exactly? / Are you saying that even his worldwide empowerments don't include samaya in the same way as other tantric teachings?
I don't know why you'd need to complicate it, just listen to what he says and do your best to follow it, including reading books etc. I personally have never seen Rinpoche address samaya in the manner a teacher of Tantra would, I have not seen that same attitude towards Samaya in Dzogchen generally, but I may be ignorant of the facts. I have no idea if he ever does, maybe he does and I've missed it. As others mentioned, if you really want to know the answer, i'd email an SMS instructor.

He does say repeatedly to just do GY and not worry though, it doesn't get much clearer than that in my opinion. If you read some books I believe he also says in places that it (GY) is superior purification, though I cannot dredge up the quote at the moment, I imagine it's the the GY book. What I mean about secondary practices is that (AFAIK), you can have the lung for lets say, the DC Chod practice, but there are no practices you are "required" to do beyond being present and doing Ati Guru Yoga. It seems to be recommended to do Thun and Ganapuja, but even those I have never seen presented as a "requirement".
There's no hoarding what has vanished,
No piling up for the future;
Those who have been born are standing
Like a seed upon a needle.

-Guhatthaka-suttaniddeso

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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Post by Hansei » Sun Jul 08, 2018 8:19 pm

florin wrote:
Sun Jul 08, 2018 4:44 pm
Hansei wrote:
Sun Jul 08, 2018 4:14 pm
florin wrote:
Sun Jul 08, 2018 3:39 pm
Vajrasattva.
Make sure you you do it in the context of the four powers.
Then it will function as it should.
Is there any good and reliable explanation on the Internet about how to do it that way?
I dont know about internet but in short we start acknowledging and recognizing that we made a mistake, we feel sorry and regret our mistake followed by a determination not to repeat that in the future.And while we do the practice we generate a feeling of purity , we feel pure and understand that the errors we committed with regards to Buddha(our guru) Dharma (the transmission of knowledge ) and Sangha(the community that shares this transmission) have all been purified. Feeling pure is very important.
Thank you Florin, that was really clear. :namaste:

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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Post by javier.espinoza.t » Mon Jul 09, 2018 9:18 pm

Temicco wrote:
Sun Jul 08, 2018 2:05 am
Virgo wrote:
Sun Jul 08, 2018 1:35 am
Temicco wrote:
Sun Jul 08, 2018 1:16 am
I am confused about samaya w/ ChNN's worldwide empowerments. I've tried looking into the subject here and elsewhere online, but found no definitive answers. I've taken the empowerment a few times, the very first being almost 3 years ago, without knowing whether there's a samaya associated with it. So, is there a samaya, or no?
Yes, do GY (Guru Yoga) everyday. This can be just GY of the White AH, totally fine.

sarva mangalam.

Kevin...
Thank you. If I haven't been doing so, how do I repair that?

Also, can I ask where you heard this from? It is better safe than sorry of course, but I asked one practitioner who used to help prep people for the empowerments, and she said there was no samaya. I am just confused at the discrepancy.
one can repair it by doing GY. Rinpoche said at least once that it is difficult to understand but remaining in state of contemplation is the best purification one can do.

so, to do GY in the correct way, one should remain in contemplation also, not only do it like some sort of performance.
you see, one must remain in the state of GY, the state of contemplation, so it can be integrated.
not doing so means a secure failure in integrating, and so, in dzogchen practice.

for example:
we apply the method of GY and remain in that state for some time according to our capacity and possibiities
if we want to go further, when contemplation deteriorates we apply GY over again. each time we remain a little longer time.
then we can start to move a litte, then walk, then cook, then read, then do everything, etc.

please don't consider GY as a "button" to be pushed.

Motova
Posts: 1301
Joined: Sun Sep 16, 2012 11:05 pm

Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Post by Motova » Thu Jul 12, 2018 3:49 am

Which yidams can one NOT go to the essence with (G.Y.o.W.A., S.S., M., Ded.)?
To become a rain man one must master the ten virtues and sciences.

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