Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Hansei
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Post by Hansei » Sun Oct 21, 2018 9:30 pm

ratna wrote:
Fri Oct 19, 2018 8:33 pm
Jamyang Norbu reminisces about ChNN:
Sometime in the mid-eighties Namkhai Norbu visited my uncle Rakra Trulku at the Pestalozzi Children’s Village in Switzerland. During their after-dinner conversation Namkhai Norbu asked my uncle if he would like to experience a “mirror divination” (tib. tra-pab). My uncle was curious and so Namkhai Norbu pulled out a brass melong mirror and set it up on the dining table.

He began chanting and tossing grains of rice on the mirror surface. My uncle told me that soon the mirror surface began to cloud over and a vision appeared. Rakra Rimpoche did not tell me what he saw and I did not press him. But some of the Tibetan children at Pestalozzi who were crowding around the two lamas and looking to be entertained, later told me of their experiences that evening. They all saw different things – fleeting landscapes, people and so on. Nothing of consequence. One girl told me that she saw Tibetan letters appearing and disappearing on the mirror surface. She took up Tibetan Studies later in life.
Wonderful. Thanks.

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Dorje Shedrub
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Post by Dorje Shedrub » Sun Oct 21, 2018 10:09 pm

Did Rinpoche teach and transmit all of his Longsal terma or was there still more? Have his senior students, like Adriano Clemente, received all of them?

DS
Homage to the Precious Dzogchen Master
🙏🌺🙏 Chögyal Namkhai Norbu Rinpoche
🙏🌺🙏

Norwegian
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Post by Norwegian » Sun Oct 21, 2018 10:42 pm

Dorje Shedrub wrote:
Sun Oct 21, 2018 10:09 pm
Did Rinpoche teach and transmit all of his Longsal terma or was there still more? Have his senior students, like Adriano Clemente, received all of them?

DS
No there were more Longsal teachings that Rinpoche had received, but had not yet transmitted. I don't know if Adriano have received them.

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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Post by treehuggingoctopus » Mon Oct 22, 2018 8:52 am

Dorje Shedrub wrote:
Sun Oct 21, 2018 10:09 pm
Did Rinpoche teach and transmit all of his Longsal terma or was there still more? Have his senior students, like Adriano Clemente, received all of them?

DS
You are not the only one asking this question :(
. . . there they saw a rock! But it wasn't a rock . . .

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javier.espinoza.t
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Post by javier.espinoza.t » Mon Oct 22, 2018 9:31 am

Dorje Shedrub wrote:
Sun Oct 21, 2018 10:09 pm
Did Rinpoche teach and transmit all of his Longsal terma or was there still more? Have his senior students, like Adriano Clemente, received all of them?

DS
nope, but we already have plenty of methods.

it took several years for Rinpoche to enable longsal transmission, i mean he had to practice this things for 5 years, 20 years, etc. before he where allowed to transmit them.

it is something very difficult :rolling:
what are you doing

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Tlalok
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Post by Tlalok » Mon Oct 22, 2018 5:48 pm

What are the requirements to be able to read the Precious Vase? I want to use it to get into the preliminaries in a deeper sense.

Miroku
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Post by Miroku » Mon Oct 22, 2018 6:02 pm

Tlalok wrote:
Mon Oct 22, 2018 5:48 pm
What are the requirements to be able to read the Precious Vase? I want to use it to get into the preliminaries in a deeper sense.
Direct introduction from Namkhai Norbu Rinpoche
A boat delivers you to the other riverbank.
A needle stitches up your clothes.
A horse takes you where you want to go.
Bodhicitta will bring you to Buddhahood.

~ Khunu Lama Rinpoche

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Tlalok
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Post by Tlalok » Mon Oct 22, 2018 6:30 pm

Miroku wrote:
Mon Oct 22, 2018 6:02 pm
Tlalok wrote:
Mon Oct 22, 2018 5:48 pm
What are the requirements to be able to read the Precious Vase? I want to use it to get into the preliminaries in a deeper sense.
Direct introduction from Namkhai Norbu Rinpoche
Neat, thanks!

Lukeinaz
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Post by Lukeinaz » Mon Oct 22, 2018 6:30 pm

Miroku wrote:
Mon Oct 22, 2018 6:02 pm
Tlalok wrote:
Mon Oct 22, 2018 5:48 pm
What are the requirements to be able to read the Precious Vase? I want to use it to get into the preliminaries in a deeper sense.
Direct introduction from Namkhai Norbu Rinpoche
so in the future, who would be "allowed" to read all these restricted texts? also who imposes the restrictions? it seens some unrestricted text contain within restricted material. for example, supreme source and dorje namkha contained within.
You are truly astonishing--going to look for yourself when you already are yourself! --Longchen Rabjam

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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Post by Miroku » Mon Oct 22, 2018 6:38 pm

Lukeinaz wrote:
Mon Oct 22, 2018 6:30 pm
Miroku wrote:
Mon Oct 22, 2018 6:02 pm
Tlalok wrote:
Mon Oct 22, 2018 5:48 pm
What are the requirements to be able to read the Precious Vase? I want to use it to get into the preliminaries in a deeper sense.
Direct introduction from Namkhai Norbu Rinpoche
so in the future, who would be "allowed" to read all these restricted texts? also who imposes the restrictions? it seens some unrestricted text contain within restricted material. for example, supreme source and dorje namkha contained within.
How should I know? Wait and you will see. In the mean time feel glad for having the contact with Rinpoche :)
A boat delivers you to the other riverbank.
A needle stitches up your clothes.
A horse takes you where you want to go.
Bodhicitta will bring you to Buddhahood.

~ Khunu Lama Rinpoche

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Dorje Shedrub
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Post by Dorje Shedrub » Mon Oct 22, 2018 7:07 pm

I just hope that the Longsal terma will not be lost. I only received the Janadakini transmission.

I'm also curious about SMS since no one to my knowledge has completed all levels.

I hope that Rinpoche will manifest in ways that this lineage may continue.

DS
Homage to the Precious Dzogchen Master
🙏🌺🙏 Chögyal Namkhai Norbu Rinpoche
🙏🌺🙏

oldbob
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Post by oldbob » Mon Oct 22, 2018 10:47 pm

Dorje Shedrub wrote:
Mon Oct 22, 2018 7:07 pm
I just hope that the Longsal terma will not be lost. I only received the Janadakini transmission.

I'm also curious about SMS since no one to my knowledge has completed all levels.

I hope that Rinpoche will manifest in ways that this lineage may continue.

DS
The Longsal Terma will not be lost. If I have one breath left - I pledge this. Don't worry. The Longsal is in good hands. It is in your hands. Make your hands big as the universe.

The transmission will continue. The SMS is to level four of nine. Doesn't matter. In Dzogchen there are no limits / levels. How can you have a limit if you can't say / make a dualism of anything? Not to worry. Yes, it is a wonderment. Yes, it is a miracle. There is no logic that can explain these things.

If you make yourself completely empty and invite him to come into you, see what happens.

:heart:

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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Post by oldbob » Mon Oct 22, 2018 11:23 pm

Tlalok wrote:
Mon Oct 22, 2018 5:48 pm
What are the requirements to be able to read the Precious Vase? I want to use it to get into the preliminaries in a deeper sense.
My 2 cents:

Though others may say otherwise ( and I respect their right to do so) I do not feel there is any requirement to have a Direct Introduction before reading the Precious Vase. Certainly your experience will be deeper if you have a DI before reading this material, but truly, Dharma information is ok to receive at any level and if it leads to practice and personal experience, (turning the wheel) this is the purpose of Dharma information. There is no harm in anyone reading the Precious Vase.

If you pray to ChNNR, with tears in your eyes, and ask for his permission to do any practice, and he gives you this permission, who is to say that you did not receive his permission by vision or dream.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Apparitions-Se ... net+Gyatso

:heart:

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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Post by Norwegian » Mon Oct 22, 2018 11:32 pm

oldbob wrote:
Mon Oct 22, 2018 11:23 pm
Tlalok wrote:
Mon Oct 22, 2018 5:48 pm
What are the requirements to be able to read the Precious Vase? I want to use it to get into the preliminaries in a deeper sense.
My 2 cents:

Though others may say otherwise ( and I respect their right to do so) I do not feel there is any requirement to have a Direct Introduction before reading the Precious Vase. Certainly your experience will be deeper if you have a DI before reading this material, but truly, Dharma information is ok to receive at any level and if it leads to practice and personal experience, (turning the wheel) this is the purpose of Dharma information. There is no harm in anyone reading the Precious Vase.

If you pray to ChNNR, with tears in your eyes, and ask for his permission to do any practice, and he gives you this permission, who is to say that you did not receive his permission by vision or dream.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Apparitions-Se ... net+Gyatso

:heart:
As Chogyal Namkhai Norbu taught: One must receive transmission. Otherwise it is not good.

The requirement then, of receiving direct introduction, is what Rinpoche taught. This means then that your suggestion - however nice it sounds - is not what Rinpoche taught.

As it says in the beginning of the book itself, i.e., the Precious Vase: "This book should be treated with maximum respect and is intended for the use of those who have received the related transmission and teaching from the Master."

Referring to Jigme Lingpa, a realized master - a terton - who had sambhogakaya visions, is a little strange. There's nobody here who are realized or tertons. And if they were, they wouldn't need to receive any kind of teaching anymore...

climb-up
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Post by climb-up » Mon Oct 22, 2018 11:49 pm

Norwegian wrote:
Mon Oct 22, 2018 11:32 pm
oldbob wrote:
Mon Oct 22, 2018 11:23 pm
Tlalok wrote:
Mon Oct 22, 2018 5:48 pm
What are the requirements to be able to read the Precious Vase? I want to use it to get into the preliminaries in a deeper sense.
My 2 cents:

Though others may say otherwise ( and I respect their right to do so) I do not feel there is any requirement to have a Direct Introduction before reading the Precious Vase. Certainly your experience will be deeper if you have a DI before reading this material, but truly, Dharma information is ok to receive at any level and if it leads to practice and personal experience, (turning the wheel) this is the purpose of Dharma information. There is no harm in anyone reading the Precious Vase.

If you pray to ChNNR, with tears in your eyes, and ask for his permission to do any practice, and he gives you this permission, who is to say that you did not receive his permission by vision or dream.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Apparitions-Se ... net+Gyatso

:heart:
As Chogyal Namkhai Norbu taught: One must receive transmission. Otherwise it is not good.

The requirement then, of receiving direct introduction, is what Rinpoche taught. This means then that your suggestion - however nice it sounds - is not what Rinpoche taught.

As it says in the beginning of the book itself, i.e., the Precious Vase: "This book should be treated with maximum respect and is intended for the use of those who have received the related transmission and teaching from the Master."

Referring to Jigme Lingpa, a realized master - a terton - who had sambhogakaya visions, is a little strange. There's nobody here who are realized or tertons. And if they were, they wouldn't need to receive any kind of teaching anymore...
Yeah, that really doesn't seem to jive with what ChNN taught at all. Some other teachers are okay with practicing Dzogchen without DI, or with a practice itself being the DI (Loppon Tenzin Namdak has said as much explicitly and several others imply it strongly), but ChNN was always very clear about the need for DI.

It's interesting, just before I was reading this I read a chapter in the biography of Ra Lotsawa (...which is great) and had specifically noticed and found it interesting that he (someone who had gained realization and also could float on air and do all sorts of magical feats) at one point received visionary transmission directly from Manjusri of all the 84,000 dharmas...
...what was interesting was that he then went on a journey, as a student, receiving the wang and lung of a whole assortment of teachings on chakrasamvara and others. Even with a direct transmission from Manjusri, he felt it important to receive teachings from a physical human teacher.

climb-up
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Post by climb-up » Mon Oct 22, 2018 11:53 pm

Lukeinaz wrote:
Mon Oct 22, 2018 6:30 pm
Miroku wrote:
Mon Oct 22, 2018 6:02 pm
Tlalok wrote:
Mon Oct 22, 2018 5:48 pm
What are the requirements to be able to read the Precious Vase? I want to use it to get into the preliminaries in a deeper sense.
Direct introduction from Namkhai Norbu Rinpoche
so in the future, who would be "allowed" to read all these restricted texts? also who imposes the restrictions? it seens some unrestricted text contain within restricted material. for example, supreme source and dorje namkha contained within.
As said above, we who have received DI should be grateful for our wonderful opportunity.
In regards to DC; time will tell but I, for one, figure that there is or will be a plan in place to continue the DI and continue the community.
If the DI is continued then, I believe, many are able to give the lung of the various practices. I think (and may be incorrect) that anyone who has completed the three roots retreat and received the lung can give the it.

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Fa Dao
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Post by Fa Dao » Mon Oct 22, 2018 11:55 pm

Patience....more than likely, major announcements will be made after 49 days have passed and many questions/concerns will be addressed...until then I suggest LOTS of Guruyoga and SOV
"But if you know how to observe yourself, you will discover your real nature, the primordial state, the state of Guruyoga, and then all will become clear because you will have discovered everything"-Namkhai Norbu Rinpoche

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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Post by Josef » Tue Oct 23, 2018 1:39 am

Dorje Shedrub wrote:
Sun Oct 21, 2018 10:09 pm
Did Rinpoche teach and transmit all of his Longsal terma or was there still more? Have his senior students, like Adriano Clemente, received all of them?

DS
It's not at all uncommon for terma cycles to take multiple generations to be revealed, even then there is often a vast amount that remains hidden.
Kye ma!
The river of continuity is marked by impermanence.
Ceaseless flowing of appearance.
Beautiful and repulsive.
The dance of life and death is a display of the vast expanse.
With gratitude the watcher and the watched pass through the barrier of duality.

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Vasana
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Post by Vasana » Tue Oct 23, 2018 7:58 am

Good to remember that Longsal isn't exclusive to our human dimension either. We don't yet know about Longsal in this world but if there are lineage holders elsewhere then for as long as these teachings can tame beings they will continue in some form or another, manifesting their blessings. All the more reason to rejoice for those mindstreams who have received even just a few seeds of these transmissions, including ourselves.
'When alone, watch your mind. When with others, watch your speech'- Old Kadampa saying.

climb-up
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Post by climb-up » Wed Oct 24, 2018 1:52 am

climb-up wrote:
Mon Oct 22, 2018 11:49 pm
Norwegian wrote:
Mon Oct 22, 2018 11:32 pm
oldbob wrote:
Mon Oct 22, 2018 11:23 pm


My 2 cents:

Though others may say otherwise ( and I respect their right to do so) I do not feel there is any requirement to have a Direct Introduction before reading the Precious Vase. Certainly your experience will be deeper if you have a DI before reading this material, but truly, Dharma information is ok to receive at any level and if it leads to practice and personal experience, (turning the wheel) this is the purpose of Dharma information. There is no harm in anyone reading the Precious Vase.

If you pray to ChNNR, with tears in your eyes, and ask for his permission to do any practice, and he gives you this permission, who is to say that you did not receive his permission by vision or dream.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Apparitions-Se ... net+Gyatso

:heart:
As Chogyal Namkhai Norbu taught: One must receive transmission. Otherwise it is not good.

The requirement then, of receiving direct introduction, is what Rinpoche taught. This means then that your suggestion - however nice it sounds - is not what Rinpoche taught.

As it says in the beginning of the book itself, i.e., the Precious Vase: "This book should be treated with maximum respect and is intended for the use of those who have received the related transmission and teaching from the Master."

Referring to Jigme Lingpa, a realized master - a terton - who had sambhogakaya visions, is a little strange. There's nobody here who are realized or tertons. And if they were, they wouldn't need to receive any kind of teaching anymore...
Yeah, that really doesn't seem to jive with what ChNN taught at all. Some other teachers are okay with practicing Dzogchen without DI, or with a practice itself being the DI (Loppon Tenzin Namdak has said as much explicitly and several others imply it strongly), but ChNN was always very clear about the need for DI.

It's interesting, just before I was reading this I read a chapter in the biography of Ra Lotsawa (...which is great) and had specifically noticed and found it interesting that he (someone who had gained realization and also could float on air and do all sorts of magical feats) at one point received visionary transmission directly from Manjusri of all the 84,000 dharmas...
...what was interesting was that he then went on a journey, as a student, receiving the wang and lung of a whole assortment of teachings on chakrasamvara and others. Even with a direct transmission from Manjusri, he felt it important to receive teachings from a physical human teacher.
It seems that my above statement was taken, incorrectly, as an attack, and I apologize if that is how it came across.
It seems that Oldbob meant only that reading the book without DI was, in his opinion, fine, not practicing it without DI.
For myself, since it is labelled as a restricted book, that doesn't seem like a good idea, but if someone understands this, it is none of my business.

I was certainly not attempting to jump on any bandwagons, or immune anyone's reputation (and am more than a little surprised that a message board comment would be taken as such. My confusion came from the section stating:
If you pray to ChNNR, with tears in your eyes, and ask for his permission to do any practice, and he gives you this permission, who is to say that you did not receive his permission by vision or dream.
I thought, given the context of post, and not realizing someone would intend to buy a restricted book just to read it, that this was in regards to DI. I do still think it's confusing, because that particular statement does seem to imply the necessity of some level of permissions before reading, but again;
I am not trying to quibble, disrespect, 'derogate or deride,' my above comment was a thought that I had in response to what I had read. Apparently I was mistaken. I do generally assume that folks will just post a response to a mistake I make (so that I and others can learn from it) but so be it.

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