Tögal for dzogchen beginners?

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Josef
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Re: Tögal for dzogchen beginners?

Post by Josef » Sun Sep 10, 2017 9:59 pm

Being concerned with Togal when one doesnt even really have any kind of foundation is short-sighted.
Ati Guru Yoga is all you really need anyways.
Kye ma!
The river of continuity is marked by impermanence.
Ceaseless flowing of appearance.
Beautiful and repulsive.
The dance of life and death is a display of the vast expanse.
With gratitude the watcher and the watched pass through the barrier of duality.

Bubbles
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Re: Tögal for dzogchen beginners?

Post by Bubbles » Mon Sep 11, 2017 12:09 am

krodha wrote:
Bubbles wrote:
Malcolm wrote:
Yes. You are missing a teacher who can guide you. No, WWT is not sufficient.
Hi Malcolm,

How closely can these top teachers work with individual students? From my experience, there's not much one-on-one guidance offered by top teachers; because they're so sought after. I could be wrong. Anyway, regarding ChNN, I haven't found any specific in-person courses/retreat given on Trekcho and Thogal. So, do these Rinpoches offer personal guidance after they get to know the students, informally, not necessarily in class settings; maybe because the experiences are esoteric? Again, if anyone has a URL link to any course they have found, I'd really appreciate it.

Thank you.
Bubbles
Last time ChNN taught daytime thögal was maybe three years ago, he does it in person so you have to travel to him, there's no teaching available online.

Rinpoche technically teaches tregchö all the time, but teaches tregchö proper ala four chözhags only every now and then.

Best to be patient, save some money for travel and keep checking the schedule.
Thank you Krodha

climb-up
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Re: Tögal for dzogchen beginners?

Post by climb-up » Mon Sep 11, 2017 5:34 pm

Bubbles wrote:
Malcolm wrote:
Bubbles wrote:
Am I missing something? Is webcast worldwide transmission on guru yoga sufficient to start the Togal practice on our own? Thanks.
Yes. You are missing a teacher who can guide you. No, WWT is not sufficient.
Hi Malcolm,

How closely can these top teachers work with individual students? From my experience, there's not much one-on-one guidance offered by top teachers; because they're so sought after. I could be wrong. Anyway, regarding ChNN, I haven't found any specific in-person courses/retreat given on Trekcho and Thogal. So, do these Rinpoches offer personal guidance after they get to know the students, informally, not necessarily in class settings; maybe because the experiences are esoteric? Again, if anyone has a URL link to any course they have found, I'd really appreciate it.

Thank you.
Bubbles
In re: to ChNN the WWT transmission gives you permission to practice guru yoga, treckchod and whole host of other practices, such as lojong, rushen and semdzin that help stabilize your practice.
Each webcast includes DI which also gives permission and detailed explanations of how to do it, he also gives lung for more practices than you can shake a stick at.
If you are serious about learning dzogchen from ChNN then that's the way to go. Keep up with the DC forum and you'll know if/when any retreats come up and if it's appropriate to go.

It seems that, in general, Thogal is only taught privately, so if you feel that your mahamudra experience is enough for to 'leap over' the other dzogchen practices it seems like you get an audience with a qualified lama, explain your position and ask how to proceed.

You can also google. One of the lamas that Malcolm mentioned in the thread you started is finishing up a series of 4 retreats on "heart drops of KuntuZangpo." Part 3 was in August and was Thogal. I don't know if thats a regular series that is taught, or if it was open to everyone, but the 4 parts seem to cover pretty much everything in re: to upadesha. Probably someone to keep an eye on.

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dzogchungpa
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Re: Tögal for dzogchen beginners?

Post by dzogchungpa » Mon Sep 11, 2017 7:06 pm

climb-up wrote:One of the lamas that Malcolm mentioned in the thread you started is finishing up a series of 4 retreats on "heart drops of KuntuZangpo." Part 3 was in August and was Thogal. I don't know if thats a regular series that is taught, or if it was open to everyone, but the 4 parts seem to cover pretty much everything in re: to upadesha. Probably someone to keep an eye on.
I believe Geshe Chaphur teaches that material fairly regularly and every part is open to everyone, even if you have not attended the previous parts.
It takes a great being to be daring enough to cultivate a bad reputation. - Dzongsar Jamyang Khyentse Rinpoche

climb-up
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Re: Tögal for dzogchen beginners?

Post by climb-up » Tue Sep 12, 2017 2:57 am

dzogchungpa wrote:
climb-up wrote:One of the lamas that Malcolm mentioned in the thread you started is finishing up a series of 4 retreats on "heart drops of KuntuZangpo." Part 3 was in August and was Thogal. I don't know if thats a regular series that is taught, or if it was open to everyone, but the 4 parts seem to cover pretty much everything in re: to upadesha. Probably someone to keep an eye on.
I believe Geshe Chaphur teaches that material fairly regularly and every part is open to everyone, even if you have not attended the previous parts.
Wow, that's pretty amazing. Definitely seems like someone to keep an eye on for anyone around the SF bay area, or who can get to it.
I signed up for the mailing list!

Bubbles
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Re: Tögal for dzogchen beginners?

Post by Bubbles » Thu Sep 14, 2017 2:04 am

Thank you everyone for the amazing info! It's very helpful. Would you be able to suggest any good books on the practice of Thodgal, in terms of poses, gazes, etc; especially anything that gives picture would be great. I'm now reading "Heart drops of dharmakaya" and it gives instruction. But I'm not clear how long to hold the poses, and I've found some online pictures for poses that seem different from book's description. So, if you know other reliable sources, it's very helpful.

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anjali
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Re: Tögal for dzogchen beginners?

Post by anjali » Thu Sep 14, 2017 2:21 am

It's time to lock this thread. Togal is properly learned within a teacher student relationship, not through books or websites. That point has been made multiple times in this thread. If anyone has anything useful to add--perhaps info about additional teachers who are accepting students and also teaching togal, then the thread might be reopened.

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