Dzogchen Longde Tantras

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Fa Dao
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Dzogchen Longde Tantras

Post by Fa Dao » Fri Oct 28, 2011 2:24 pm

Does anyone know if any of the Longde Tantras have been translated into English? and if so where a person could find them? Was specifically thinking of Longchen Rabjam Gyalpo/ཀློང་ཆེན་རབ་འབྱམས་རྒྱལ་པོ and 'Kunto Zangpo Namkhache/ ཀུན་ཏུ་བཟང་པོ་ནམ་མཁའ་ཆེ
"But if you know how to observe yourself, you will discover your real nature, the primordial state, the state of Guruyoga, and then all will become clear because you will have discovered everything"-Namkhai Norbu Rinpoche

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Lhug-Pa
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Re: Dzogchen Longde Tantras

Post by Lhug-Pa » Fri Oct 28, 2011 5:19 pm

Don't know if this helps much, but I believe that Chogyal Namkhai Norbu Rinpoche's Cycle of Day and Night is a Mengagde text containing pith instructions on Longde Dzogchen teachings. It also lists in its notes some very important Dzogchen Tantras as well.

Josef
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Re: Dzogchen Longde Tantras

Post by Josef » Fri Oct 28, 2011 6:00 pm

I dont know if any that have been translated in their entirety.
Kye ma!
The river of continuity is marked by impermanence.
Ceaseless flowing of appearance.
Beautiful and repulsive.
The dance of life and death is a display of the vast expanse.
With gratitude the watcher and the watched pass through the barrier of duality.

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Re: Dzogchen Longde Tantras

Post by Pero » Fri Oct 28, 2011 11:17 pm

Jim Valby has translated the ninth chapter from Longchen Rabjam Gyalpo (chapter on the mandala), it's in "Two Dzogchen Texts". But other than that I don't think there's anything else in English.
Although many individuals in this age appear to be merely indulging their worldly desires, one does not have the capacity to judge them, so it is best to train in pure vision.
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Dechen Norbu
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Re: Dzogchen Longde Tantras

Post by Dechen Norbu » Sat Oct 29, 2011 12:04 am

And that's a pity. :(

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Fa Dao
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Re: Dzogchen Longde Tantras

Post by Fa Dao » Thu Jun 19, 2014 4:18 pm

time has passed so I thought I would recheck...
"But if you know how to observe yourself, you will discover your real nature, the primordial state, the state of Guruyoga, and then all will become clear because you will have discovered everything"-Namkhai Norbu Rinpoche

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Fa Dao
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Re: Dzogchen Longde Tantras

Post by Fa Dao » Fri Mar 03, 2017 6:19 am

I found these. Dont know how good the translation is but at least they are translated

https://www.amazon.com/Royal-Tantra-Bri ... C5VSXEMKKZ

https://www.amazon.com/Great-Tantra-Vaj ... N6E63CZBWB
"But if you know how to observe yourself, you will discover your real nature, the primordial state, the state of Guruyoga, and then all will become clear because you will have discovered everything"-Namkhai Norbu Rinpoche

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Fa Dao
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Re: Dzogchen Longde Tantras

Post by Fa Dao » Fri Mar 10, 2017 12:00 pm

has anyone read these? are they good translations?
"But if you know how to observe yourself, you will discover your real nature, the primordial state, the state of Guruyoga, and then all will become clear because you will have discovered everything"-Namkhai Norbu Rinpoche

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Re: Dzogchen Longde Tantras

Post by Norwegian » Fri Mar 10, 2017 1:09 pm

Fa Dao wrote:has anyone read these? are they good translations?
I have not read them.

As for being "good translations", I've seen numerous discussions in various places which concludes that his translations have quite a number of errors and mistakes in them.

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heart
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Re: Dzogchen Longde Tantras

Post by heart » Fri Mar 10, 2017 2:41 pm

Fa Dao wrote:has anyone read these? are they good translations?
I bought "The union of the sun and moon" because I wanted very much to read the context in which the song of the vajra was taught. I can say this; these translations are not "pretty", that is they seem to lack proper editing and translation support (he seems to invent his own vocabulary).

I would say they are not very good, but who am I to say anything about translation. :smile:

/magnus
"We are all here to help each other go through this thing, whatever it is."
~Kurt Vonnegut

"The principal practice is Guruyoga. But we need to understand that any secondary practice combined with Guruyoga becomes a principal practice." ChNNR (Teachings on Thun and Ganapuja)

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WuMing
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Re: Dzogchen Longde Tantras

Post by WuMing » Fri Mar 10, 2017 2:53 pm

Norwegian wrote:
Fa Dao wrote:has anyone read these? are they good translations?
I have not read them.

As for being "good translations", I've seen numerous discussions in various places which concludes that his translations have quite a number of errors and mistakes in them.
Such as? Can you give an example of his errors and mistakes, please!
今以佛眼觀之佛與眾生同住解脫之床。無此無彼無二平等。
Now, observing with the eye of the Buddha, both the Buddha and ordinary beings are in the same liberated state. There is neither this nor that: there is only non-duality and identity.
- 空海 Kūkai in Unjigi 吽字義 The Meaning of the Letter Hūṃ
- Kūkai on the Philosophy of Language by Takagi Shingen and Dreitlein Eijō
_______
Śrī Singha said to Padmasambhava:
Since buddhas and sentient beings are inseparable and the same, it is necessary to respect all sentient beings as being on the same level with the buddhas. Can you?
- translated by Malcolm N. Smith

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Re: Dzogchen Longde Tantras

Post by Norwegian » Fri Mar 10, 2017 3:28 pm

WuMing wrote:
Norwegian wrote:
Fa Dao wrote:has anyone read these? are they good translations?
I have not read them.

As for being "good translations", I've seen numerous discussions in various places which concludes that his translations have quite a number of errors and mistakes in them.
Such as? Can you give an example of his errors and mistakes, please!
I cannot recall the specifics right now unfortunately, but there were two discussions on Vajracakra and some on Jean-Luc Achard's forum.

http://vajracakra.com/viewtopic.php?f=6 ... 4&start=10
http://vajracakra.com/viewtopic.php?f=57&t=2049

The one on JLA's forum (I don't have the link to the posts) mentioned how Wilkinson completely mistranslated something which referred to something entirely different than what he had translated it as, which thus results in something quite confusing. I tried searching for it, but either my search parameters were wrong or the search function just sucks.

At any rate, posts like these, coupled with having read one of his first Dzogchen publications, have lead me to not care so much for his translations, until they actually get good reviews by people who knows Tibetan.

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florin
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Re: Dzogchen Longde Tantras

Post by florin » Fri Mar 10, 2017 6:54 pm

I would echo , more or less what others have said.
My advice is to wait .
"Bow down to me for I thirst for an infinite ocean of blood, since the innumerable torrents of floods at kalpa's end that terrify all world systems do not even wet the tip of my tongue"

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Fa Dao
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Re: Dzogchen Longde Tantras

Post by Fa Dao » Fri Mar 10, 2017 9:13 pm

I did read some excerpts of the two books on Amazon...seemed pretty straightforward and relatively easy to read...but I am no translator
"But if you know how to observe yourself, you will discover your real nature, the primordial state, the state of Guruyoga, and then all will become clear because you will have discovered everything"-Namkhai Norbu Rinpoche

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florin
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Re: Dzogchen Longde Tantras

Post by florin » Sat Mar 11, 2017 10:42 pm

To be honest i dont know what this Wilkinson guy is doing...
It almost looks like he has his own personal translation factory given the frequency with which he translates.
That wouldn't be such a bad thing if his translations would be any good .

Like many others, having been exposed to very good quality dzogchen literature i can say with some degree of certainty that these translations appart from the accidental intelligibility they don't make much sense .

If anybody is confused about the various positive reviews on the internet, i would suggest that they are not real reviews. Given the quality of the material they can't be.
These people are either friends, paid or clueless with respect to dzogchen.
"Bow down to me for I thirst for an infinite ocean of blood, since the innumerable torrents of floods at kalpa's end that terrify all world systems do not even wet the tip of my tongue"

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Re: Dzogchen Longde Tantras

Post by Norwegian » Sun Mar 12, 2017 12:17 am

florin wrote:To be honest i dont know what this Wilkinson guy is doing...
It almost looks like he has his own personal translation factory given the frequency with which he translates.
That wouldn't be such a bad thing if his translations would be any good .

Like many others, having been exposed to very good quality dzogchen literature i can say with some degree of certainty that these translations appart from the accidental intelligibility they don't make much sense .

If anybody is confused about the various positive reviews on the internet, i would suggest that they are not real reviews. Given the quality of the material they can't be.
These people are either friends, paid or clueless with respect to dzogchen.
Positive reviews of Dharma books on Amazon is risky business, if you rely on them for purchase. Just put out a text on Amazon, call it "The Great Dzogchen" or whatever, and someone will give it 5 stars regardless of content. Anything that is branded as a Dharma text, in particular Dzogchen, tend to get 5 stars...

In fact when it comes to reviews for Dharma books, Amazon tend to be pretty terrible, as opposed to history books, such as Japanese history, Medieval European history, etc. or so many other subjects. It's really weird.

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heart
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Re: Dzogchen Longde Tantras

Post by heart » Sun Mar 12, 2017 7:18 am

florin wrote:To be honest i dont know what this Wilkinson guy is doing...
It almost looks like he has his own personal translation factory given the frequency with which he translates.
That wouldn't be such a bad thing if his translations would be any good .

Like many others, having been exposed to very good quality dzogchen literature i can say with some degree of certainty that these translations appart from the accidental intelligibility they don't make much sense .

If anybody is confused about the various positive reviews on the internet, i would suggest that they are not real reviews. Given the quality of the material they can't be.
These people are either friends, paid or clueless with respect to dzogchen.
He mentions that Jax support and encourage his translations in the preface of the book I bought, so maybe Jax and his "students" give them good reviews. :smile:

/magnus
"We are all here to help each other go through this thing, whatever it is."
~Kurt Vonnegut

"The principal practice is Guruyoga. But we need to understand that any secondary practice combined with Guruyoga becomes a principal practice." ChNNR (Teachings on Thun and Ganapuja)

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Fa Dao
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Re: Dzogchen Longde Tantras

Post by Fa Dao » Sun Mar 12, 2017 1:38 pm

Magnus,
that is problematic but as far as I know these are the only translations of these two Tantras in English...
"But if you know how to observe yourself, you will discover your real nature, the primordial state, the state of Guruyoga, and then all will become clear because you will have discovered everything"-Namkhai Norbu Rinpoche

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heart
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Re: Dzogchen Longde Tantras

Post by heart » Sun Mar 12, 2017 4:06 pm

Fa Dao wrote:Magnus,
that is problematic but as far as I know these are the only translations of these two Tantras in English...
Buy one and try.

/magnus
"We are all here to help each other go through this thing, whatever it is."
~Kurt Vonnegut

"The principal practice is Guruyoga. But we need to understand that any secondary practice combined with Guruyoga becomes a principal practice." ChNNR (Teachings on Thun and Ganapuja)

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Fa Dao
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Re: Dzogchen Longde Tantras

Post by Fa Dao » Sun Mar 12, 2017 11:11 pm

heart wrote:
Fa Dao wrote:Magnus,
that is problematic but as far as I know these are the only translations of these two Tantras in English...
Buy one and try.

/magnus
yeah..thats probably what I will do...both contain the Tibetan so it doesnt hurt to have that around, right?
"But if you know how to observe yourself, you will discover your real nature, the primordial state, the state of Guruyoga, and then all will become clear because you will have discovered everything"-Namkhai Norbu Rinpoche

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