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Dzogchen Longde Tantras

Posted: Fri Oct 28, 2011 2:24 pm
by Fa Dao
Does anyone know if any of the Longde Tantras have been translated into English? and if so where a person could find them? Was specifically thinking of Longchen Rabjam Gyalpo/ཀློང་ཆེན་རབ་འབྱམས་རྒྱལ་པོ and 'Kunto Zangpo Namkhache/ ཀུན་ཏུ་བཟང་པོ་ནམ་མཁའ་ཆེ

Re: Dzogchen Longde Tantras

Posted: Fri Oct 28, 2011 5:19 pm
by Lhug-Pa
Don't know if this helps much, but I believe that Chogyal Namkhai Norbu Rinpoche's Cycle of Day and Night is a Mengagde text containing pith instructions on Longde Dzogchen teachings. It also lists in its notes some very important Dzogchen Tantras as well.

Re: Dzogchen Longde Tantras

Posted: Fri Oct 28, 2011 6:00 pm
by Josef
I dont know if any that have been translated in their entirety.

Re: Dzogchen Longde Tantras

Posted: Fri Oct 28, 2011 11:17 pm
by Pero
Jim Valby has translated the ninth chapter from Longchen Rabjam Gyalpo (chapter on the mandala), it's in "Two Dzogchen Texts". But other than that I don't think there's anything else in English.

Re: Dzogchen Longde Tantras

Posted: Sat Oct 29, 2011 12:04 am
by Dechen Norbu
And that's a pity. :(

Re: Dzogchen Longde Tantras

Posted: Thu Jun 19, 2014 4:18 pm
by Fa Dao
time has passed so I thought I would recheck...

Re: Dzogchen Longde Tantras

Posted: Fri Mar 03, 2017 6:19 am
by Fa Dao
I found these. Dont know how good the translation is but at least they are translated

https://www.amazon.com/Royal-Tantra-Bri ... C5VSXEMKKZ

https://www.amazon.com/Great-Tantra-Vaj ... N6E63CZBWB

Re: Dzogchen Longde Tantras

Posted: Fri Mar 10, 2017 12:00 pm
by Fa Dao
has anyone read these? are they good translations?

Re: Dzogchen Longde Tantras

Posted: Fri Mar 10, 2017 1:09 pm
by Norwegian
Fa Dao wrote:has anyone read these? are they good translations?
I have not read them.

As for being "good translations", I've seen numerous discussions in various places which concludes that his translations have quite a number of errors and mistakes in them.

Re: Dzogchen Longde Tantras

Posted: Fri Mar 10, 2017 2:41 pm
by heart
Fa Dao wrote:has anyone read these? are they good translations?
I bought "The union of the sun and moon" because I wanted very much to read the context in which the song of the vajra was taught. I can say this; these translations are not "pretty", that is they seem to lack proper editing and translation support (he seems to invent his own vocabulary).

I would say they are not very good, but who am I to say anything about translation. :smile:

/magnus

Re: Dzogchen Longde Tantras

Posted: Fri Mar 10, 2017 2:53 pm
by WuMing
Norwegian wrote:
Fa Dao wrote:has anyone read these? are they good translations?
I have not read them.

As for being "good translations", I've seen numerous discussions in various places which concludes that his translations have quite a number of errors and mistakes in them.
Such as? Can you give an example of his errors and mistakes, please!

Re: Dzogchen Longde Tantras

Posted: Fri Mar 10, 2017 3:28 pm
by Norwegian
WuMing wrote:
Norwegian wrote:
Fa Dao wrote:has anyone read these? are they good translations?
I have not read them.

As for being "good translations", I've seen numerous discussions in various places which concludes that his translations have quite a number of errors and mistakes in them.
Such as? Can you give an example of his errors and mistakes, please!
I cannot recall the specifics right now unfortunately, but there were two discussions on Vajracakra and some on Jean-Luc Achard's forum.

http://vajracakra.com/viewtopic.php?f=6 ... 4&start=10
http://vajracakra.com/viewtopic.php?f=57&t=2049

The one on JLA's forum (I don't have the link to the posts) mentioned how Wilkinson completely mistranslated something which referred to something entirely different than what he had translated it as, which thus results in something quite confusing. I tried searching for it, but either my search parameters were wrong or the search function just sucks.

At any rate, posts like these, coupled with having read one of his first Dzogchen publications, have lead me to not care so much for his translations, until they actually get good reviews by people who knows Tibetan.

Re: Dzogchen Longde Tantras

Posted: Fri Mar 10, 2017 6:54 pm
by florin
I would echo , more or less what others have said.
My advice is to wait .

Re: Dzogchen Longde Tantras

Posted: Fri Mar 10, 2017 9:13 pm
by Fa Dao
I did read some excerpts of the two books on Amazon...seemed pretty straightforward and relatively easy to read...but I am no translator

Re: Dzogchen Longde Tantras

Posted: Sat Mar 11, 2017 10:42 pm
by florin
To be honest i dont know what this Wilkinson guy is doing...
It almost looks like he has his own personal translation factory given the frequency with which he translates.
That wouldn't be such a bad thing if his translations would be any good .

Like many others, having been exposed to very good quality dzogchen literature i can say with some degree of certainty that these translations appart from the accidental intelligibility they don't make much sense .

If anybody is confused about the various positive reviews on the internet, i would suggest that they are not real reviews. Given the quality of the material they can't be.
These people are either friends, paid or clueless with respect to dzogchen.

Re: Dzogchen Longde Tantras

Posted: Sun Mar 12, 2017 12:17 am
by Norwegian
florin wrote:To be honest i dont know what this Wilkinson guy is doing...
It almost looks like he has his own personal translation factory given the frequency with which he translates.
That wouldn't be such a bad thing if his translations would be any good .

Like many others, having been exposed to very good quality dzogchen literature i can say with some degree of certainty that these translations appart from the accidental intelligibility they don't make much sense .

If anybody is confused about the various positive reviews on the internet, i would suggest that they are not real reviews. Given the quality of the material they can't be.
These people are either friends, paid or clueless with respect to dzogchen.
Positive reviews of Dharma books on Amazon is risky business, if you rely on them for purchase. Just put out a text on Amazon, call it "The Great Dzogchen" or whatever, and someone will give it 5 stars regardless of content. Anything that is branded as a Dharma text, in particular Dzogchen, tend to get 5 stars...

In fact when it comes to reviews for Dharma books, Amazon tend to be pretty terrible, as opposed to history books, such as Japanese history, Medieval European history, etc. or so many other subjects. It's really weird.

Re: Dzogchen Longde Tantras

Posted: Sun Mar 12, 2017 7:18 am
by heart
florin wrote:To be honest i dont know what this Wilkinson guy is doing...
It almost looks like he has his own personal translation factory given the frequency with which he translates.
That wouldn't be such a bad thing if his translations would be any good .

Like many others, having been exposed to very good quality dzogchen literature i can say with some degree of certainty that these translations appart from the accidental intelligibility they don't make much sense .

If anybody is confused about the various positive reviews on the internet, i would suggest that they are not real reviews. Given the quality of the material they can't be.
These people are either friends, paid or clueless with respect to dzogchen.
He mentions that Jax support and encourage his translations in the preface of the book I bought, so maybe Jax and his "students" give them good reviews. :smile:

/magnus

Re: Dzogchen Longde Tantras

Posted: Sun Mar 12, 2017 1:38 pm
by Fa Dao
Magnus,
that is problematic but as far as I know these are the only translations of these two Tantras in English...

Re: Dzogchen Longde Tantras

Posted: Sun Mar 12, 2017 4:06 pm
by heart
Fa Dao wrote:Magnus,
that is problematic but as far as I know these are the only translations of these two Tantras in English...
Buy one and try.

/magnus

Re: Dzogchen Longde Tantras

Posted: Sun Mar 12, 2017 11:11 pm
by Fa Dao
heart wrote:
Fa Dao wrote:Magnus,
that is problematic but as far as I know these are the only translations of these two Tantras in English...
Buy one and try.

/magnus
yeah..thats probably what I will do...both contain the Tibetan so it doesnt hurt to have that around, right?