gad rgyangs wrote:
Pema Rigdzin wrote:But wait, I thought there were no mistaken views because it's all the manifestations of the basis?
And thus how can Namdrol be mistaken, since his view is a manifestation of the basis?
Namdrol and his mistaken view are not a mistake in the sense that he and his mistaken view should never have arisen in the first place, for yes, him and his mistaken view are just an appearance of the basis. what else could they be? even if his view was not mistaken, he and his view would still be just an appearance of the basis. what else could they be?
so one can entertain mistaken views about the nature of the basis, but thats no more or less a manifestation of the basis than correct views. It leads to a different movie though.
You're mistaken in assuming that there is no error -- the proof of that is contained within your own statement.
There is a difference between the appearance of the basis, and the error and non-error regarding that apperance. It leads to different movies, just as you say. But the erroneous perception of basis leads to a movie that is desirable to avoid, as Longchenpa states, and the non-erronenous perception leads to a movie that is desirable to see.
Basically, your point of view entails that for you liberation is meaningless. Which is fine, but that is not the point of view of Dzogchen, nor Buddhism as a whole. It may be the point of view of various neo-advaita, pseudo-zen, new age gurus, but not Dzogchen.
You might be able to post this or that citation that you feels defends your perspective, but so can I -- so that is rather pointless. Nevertheless the String of Pearls
Having been gripped by the apprehender and apprehended
in the aggregates, elements and gateways,
one remains in samsara itself for a long while,
within the belly of the three realms
one is placed in the prison of name and matter, 
bound by the chains of ignorance,
covered with dense black darkness of samsara,
attached to the spicy taste of passion,
one is bound by the noose of confusion,
tormented by the hot fire of hatred,
one’s head is covered by pride,
the gates of jealously are locked,
surrounded by the armies of resentment and so on,
tied about the neck with the noose of apprehender and apprehended,
stuck in the swamp of past traces,
one’s hands are shackled with ripened karma,
the mother of karma is joined with her child,
one following the other just like a water wheel,
alternating between good and bad bodies,
born in different forms,
and through heightening one’s self-grasping
one sinks to the bottom of the ocean of suffering,
one’s heart is grabbed by the goad of the evil destinies,
one binds oneself with the enemy, afflictions.
Fire appears as water to hell beings,
as hunger and thirst to hungry ghosts,
as fog to animals.
the aggregates, gateways and elements appears as the five elements to humans,
those are also pleasurable, painful and neutral,
as weapons and armor to asuras,
and as desirable things to gods.
For example, just like a rapidly spinning fire wheel
one abides continuously in samsara for a long while.
Such various appearances are like seeing a snake in a rope
since what isn’t there is held to be there,
both the outer and inner container and contents form,
and if that is investigated, it is a rope,
i.e. the container and contents are already empty
the ultimate with the form of the relative."
The mistake then is seeing as there what isn't there, which is why this tantra, among others uses the rope/snake example. What this tantra is stating is that deluded appearances we see that are predicated in the basis do not exist in the basis and are not appearances of the basis, but rather misapprehensions of the appearance of the basis.
You on the other hand seem to be saying that the basis manifests as sentient beings and the six realms. If this is what you are saying, then you are very far away from the point of view of the great perfection.