Lhundrub

[dakini_boi]

lhun grub is not a phenomena, and has nothing to with with phenomena. Phenomena are a result of ignorance that does not recognize the basis. Lhun grub is one of the three wisdoms inherent to the basis, the visible side. Ka dag is the emptiness aspect of the basis, the non-visible side. Energy/compassion is the inseperability of those two.

This is an interesting statement. I feel that if you can expand upon this, it will clear up a confusion I have.

If lhundrub is not phenomena, how is it different from kadag?

If lhundrub refers to something "visible," how can that not be phenomena? (I would think phenomena implies perceivability)

Can you define "phenomena?"

[weitsicht]

I wasn't addressed (neither in time nor in person) yet
let me refer to this quote, recommended for further reading

Since they cannot be separated,
kadag is the emptiness aspect of lhundrup;
and lhundrup is the form aspect of kadag.

https://vividness.live/2015/11/27/empti ... en-ethics/

[Malcolm]

I wasn't addressed (neither in time nor in person) yet
let me refer to this quote, recommended for further reading

Since they cannot be separated,
kadag is the emptiness aspect of lhundrup;
and lhundrup is the form aspect of kadag.

https://vividness.live/2015/11/27/empti ... en-ethics/

Lot of misconceptions in thus article, especially about Dzogchen.

[Lingpupa]

...
Lot of misconceptions in thus article, especially about Dzogchen.

Yep. I took a look. Got a tad uneasy when I saw one of his header themes is "Reinventing Buddhist Tantra". Personally I'd go for trying to understand it first, possibly even being so rash as to attempt to practise some of it. Then, when I had the signs of a high level of siddhi, I just might get to the stage of a bit of innovation. (Yes, sarcasm - OK?)

Shortly into that article we have:

The textbook definition begins: “A yidam is a species of Buddhist god.” A page or two later, you read: “Not all yidams are gods; some are flesh-and-blood humans from history.”

... an idea which he then proceeds to dismantle.

But wait! What textbook is that then? It's not one that Google has seen, which is suggestive, if not conclusive proof, of the possibility that it's a paper tiger.

I didn't get much further.

[PaldenDorje]

Hey, interesting discussion!
As far as I understand Lhundrub is the spontaneity dynamic of wholeness, suchness, kunzang yab-yum. Phenomena are empty to begin with which is described by Tongpa the emptying aspect of wholeness. "Thus, Sariputra, form is emptiness and emptiness is form [...] ", as said by the Heart Sutra. And still you see your hand as your hand. But this is only Salwa and Rigpas play and the ground or the source cannot be found. Like a house of cards the deluded reality is build on the axioms of your self identification , which is basicly only a little nothing in a infinity of nothing .. but nothing is quite something. If you look around you can't miss it. Just nothing with self-existence. What is left without the " I " I don't know , I'm just a bigginner pracitioner. But certainly everything which could be said about it is a lie. ( efficacious lies, as my Guru puts it ) Neti Neti.
Love from Germany!