Karma in Dzogchen
Posted: Wed May 30, 2012 8:31 am
" karma" is a gyp. A notion that Bon aped from Buddhism.
A Buddhist discussion forum on Mahayana and Vajrayana Buddhism
https://www.dharmawheel.net:443/
Lobsang P. wrote:" karma" is a gyp. A notion that Bon aped from Buddhism.
So you can stay in the natural state indefinitely "Lobsang"? It is the only way to avoid karma you know.Lobsang P. wrote:" karma" is a gyp. A notion that Bon aped from Buddhism.
Yes I used to buy into that " Heart". Of course you have to believe it. The whole edifice of Buddhism and its imitations crumbles otherwise doesn't it ? It is clearly a pretty unsubtle convention.heart wrote:So you can stay in the natural state indefinitely "Lobsang"? It is the only way to avoid karma you know.Lobsang P. wrote:" karma" is a gyp. A notion that Bon aped from Buddhism.
/magnus
Karma/vipaka is operative to the degree that we give it power by identification.kalden yungdrung wrote:Lobsang P. wrote:" karma" is a gyp. A notion that Bon aped from Buddhism.
Tashi delek,
Very interesting what you wrote but i am missing the meaning here at all.
Maybe possible to explain it more?
Thanks
Mutsog Marro
KY
Seriously, you making a major mistake. In Mahayoga everything is primordially pure and equal, it is the same as Dzogchen (more or less). But karma is as long as you have ups and downs, joys and sorrows. You would not be here on this forum if you didn't, so please be careful. Stating that karma is a convention just shows that you know very little about yourself.Lobsang P. wrote:Yes I used to buy into that " Heart". Of course you have to believe it. The whole edifice of Buddhism and its imitations crumbles otherwise doesn't it ? It is clearly a pretty unsubtle convention.heart wrote:So you can stay in the natural state indefinitely "Lobsang"? It is the only way to avoid karma you know.Lobsang P. wrote:" karma" is a gyp. A notion that Bon aped from Buddhism.
/magnus
Useful as training reins.
There is no karma in the natural state, no karma in emptiness, no karma in enlightenment. If you are a sentient being on the other hand, there is karma. Ask any Dzogchen master you want. Please ask ChNNR if you trust him. The natural state do apply to me right now, don't think I am pushing it in front of me. However, I am constantly caught again and again in the stormy waves of thought and emotion. So I do also exercise a lot of caution to what I say and do. It actually helps when you are not very stable in the natural state.Lobsang P. wrote:Ups, downs.joys sorrows etc may well be congruent with the Karma/Vipaka model of reality.
That is nothing to do with our natural state.
Its like we read the words and listen to the talks but we dont really believe it.
We prefer to struggle. It gives us a sense of purpose.
The words must apply to someone else, we think. Or some future time.
If you think, 'I will have no karmic ripening even if I engage in the
ten unvirtuous acts,' you should be able to accept the ten unvirtuous
acts of others directed towards you—even if it might result in your
death. Can you do that?
- Shri Singha
There is no choice. There is no option.rai wrote:If you think, 'I will have no karmic ripening even if I engage in the
ten unvirtuous acts,' you should be able to accept the ten unvirtuous
acts of others directed towards you—even if it might result in your
death. Can you do that?
- Shri Singha
When I split this thread, I could not find the context that this was placed in. Let me know which post it is, and I will attempt to merge that post to this thread, or we can just link to the individual post.Lobsang P. wrote:I have reservations about this thread. It was spun off from another thread in which it had a context.
It was a response to a post. It was not a bald statement without context.
When I split this thread, I could not find the context that this was placed in. Let me know which post it is, and I will attempt to merge that post to this thread, or we can just link to the individual post.[/quote]Lobsang P. wrote:I have reservations about this thread. It was spun off from another thread in which it had a context.
It was a response to a post. It was not a bald statement without context.
Basically it was saying that the Dzogchen view is not earned by purification of karma. Or any other means. Its a gift from those who have it.Dechen Norbu wrote:According to my understanding and looking only to this thread, Magnus is completely correct.
Lobsang, missing the context it's complicated to understand what you were trying to say.
... but for those who receive the gift, it needs to already be at a requested minimum quantity of limitation, or at least without some specific limitations. So a certain job would have to be done.Lobsang P. wrote:Basically it was saying that the Dzogchen view is not earned by purification of karma. Or any other means. Its a gift from those who have it.Dechen Norbu wrote:According to my understanding and looking only to this thread, Magnus is completely correct.
Lobsang, missing the context it's complicated to understand what you were trying to say.
At least that was what I meant to say.
No Dzogchen teachings ancient or recent state that karma is anything less than infallibly functioning for beings in their relative condition. If you're distracted from your knowledge of the natural state, you are accumulating some kind of karma through your thoughts, speech, and actions. Trust that.Simon E. wrote: Its like we read the words and listen to the talks but we dont really believe it.
Simon E. wrote:Dzogchen does as it will. Our merit has nothing at all to do with it.
We can and need no more earn it than we can grow our body in the womb , or breath while asleep by an act of will.