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Re: Karma in Dzogchen

Posted: Fri Jun 08, 2012 9:53 am
by Simon E.
With respect, and in my opinion, ..that is a non sequiter.
You are assuming a cause for the causeless. A sequence for the non-temporal.

:namaste:

Re: Karma in Dzogchen

Posted: Fri Jun 08, 2012 1:21 pm
by heart
Simon E. wrote:With respect, and in my opinion, ..that is a non sequiter.
You are assuming a cause for the causeless. A sequence for the non-temporal.

:namaste:
What you have to think about Simon is how you met ChNNR, because that is what everyone else is talking about. No one is saying that the natural state have a cause.

/magnus

Re: Karma in Dzogchen

Posted: Fri Jun 08, 2012 3:23 pm
by Simon E.
To borrow from The Zen folk..." A goose flies over a lake. The goose has no thought to being reflected, the lake has no intention of reflecting it...it all arises together, goose, lake, reflection. ".
"How " does not apply. All arises in vast emptiness.

Re: Karma in Dzogchen

Posted: Sat Jun 09, 2012 11:28 am
by heart
This was posted by rai in an other thread, listen to it please Simon

phpBB [video]


The goose have the intention of moving south for the winter and was thus flying over the lake. Intention and action is what karma is and I am pretty sure you have both still.

/magnus

Re: Karma in Dzogchen

Posted: Sat Jun 09, 2012 5:13 pm
by Simon E.
You view is duly noted. :namaste:

Re: Institutional Buddhism

Posted: Sat Jun 16, 2012 8:40 pm
by Sally Gross
Simon E. wrote: Karma/vipaka is operative to the degree that we give it power by identification.
We do not need to be fully realized in order for a lack of identification with actor/action/consequence to arise.
We do need however to be introduced to our natural condition by one who is realized.
From a rather different perspective, karma (kamma) is cetanaa, intention; and cetanaa is presumably linked with attachment for better or for worse. Where there is no attachment, there is presumably no intention in the requisite sense and consequently no karma/kamma or vipaaka. Being in the natural condition, in instant presence, is thus what is called kiriya or kriya in the Paali Abhidhamma, consciousness which acts but is inoperative karmically. On this conception, the actions of a Buddha are kiriya or kriya. It doesn't follow from our being able to relax in a kriya state for a time, however, that karma is a con or that it is irrelevant.

Re: Karma in Dzogchen

Posted: Sun Jun 17, 2012 2:04 am
by Dechen Norbu
Cool post Sally. Very interesting.