Gangteng Rinpoche: Buddha really was a giant

Simon E.
Posts: 5545
Joined: Tue May 15, 2012 11:09 am

Re: Gangteng Rinpoche: Buddha really was a giant

Post by Simon E. » Sun Dec 24, 2017 9:43 am

This thread has just become one person badmouthing a teacher. With or without good reason.

It's not edifying.
If you use the word 'mind' without defining your terms I will ask you politely for a definition. :smile:
This is not to be awkward. But it's really not self-explanatory.

WeiHan
Posts: 494
Joined: Sun Oct 30, 2011 5:50 pm

Re: Gangteng Rinpoche: Buddha really was a giant

Post by WeiHan » Sun Dec 24, 2017 11:15 am

Simon E. wrote:
Sun Dec 24, 2017 9:43 am
This thread has just become one person badmouthing a teacher. With or without good reason.

It's not edifying.
Bad mouthing or not, the centre is already dead or in a mess and it is definitely not due to one person bad mouthing. i have never remotely imagine that my rumbling will be of such great influence to new comers and not intend to. If others claim to be such model students and it sometimes seems to be many, then go ahead and get it right.

User avatar
Malcolm
Posts: 28034
Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2010 2:19 am

Re: Gangteng Rinpoche: Buddha really was a giant

Post by Malcolm » Sun Dec 24, 2017 5:21 pm

WeiHan wrote:
Sun Dec 24, 2017 7:29 am

It got to do with what irrational thinking can lead to in people real life.

Irrational thinking is not confined to religion. An example of irrational thinking is believing that engaging in haranguing a respected teacher of Buddhism on a Buddhism internet forum is going to result in anything other than criticism.

For example, there are famous teachers who have advanced cosmological views I consider anachronistic, but one's level of realization does not conform to whether one accepts Meru or not -- it conforms solely to how well one has eradicated the three poisons in one's continuum through the realization of emptiness and whether one is a truly compassionate person as a result. Therefore, I would not dream of criticizing them for accepting Mt.Meru or Giant Buddhas.
Last edited by Malcolm on Sun Dec 24, 2017 5:25 pm, edited 3 times in total.
Buddhahood in This Life
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


[A]nything at all that is well spoken is the word of the Buddha.

-- Ārya-adhyāśaya-sañcodana-nāma-mahāyāna-sūtra

The different sūtras in accord with the emptiness
taught by the Sugata are definitive in meaning;
One can understand that all of those Dharmas in
which a sentient being, individual, or person are taught are provisional in meaning.

-- Samadhirāja Sūtra

User avatar
Malcolm
Posts: 28034
Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2010 2:19 am

Re: Gangteng Rinpoche: Buddha really was a giant

Post by Malcolm » Sun Dec 24, 2017 5:22 pm

Simon E. wrote:
Sun Dec 24, 2017 9:43 am
This thread has just become one person badmouthing a teacher. With or without good reason.

It's not edifying.
Agreed.
Buddhahood in This Life
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


[A]nything at all that is well spoken is the word of the Buddha.

-- Ārya-adhyāśaya-sañcodana-nāma-mahāyāna-sūtra

The different sūtras in accord with the emptiness
taught by the Sugata are definitive in meaning;
One can understand that all of those Dharmas in
which a sentient being, individual, or person are taught are provisional in meaning.

-- Samadhirāja Sūtra

WeiHan
Posts: 494
Joined: Sun Oct 30, 2011 5:50 pm

Re: Gangteng Rinpoche: Buddha really was a giant

Post by WeiHan » Sun Dec 24, 2017 5:55 pm

Malcolm wrote:
Sun Dec 24, 2017 5:21 pm
WeiHan wrote:
Sun Dec 24, 2017 7:29 am

It got to do with what irrational thinking can lead to in people real life.

Therefore, I would not dream of criticizing them for accepting Mt.Meru or Giant Buddhas.
I did not criticise them for accepting Mt Meru or Giant Buddhas if you read carefully but I am not comfortable with the sweeping attitude towards science and the kind of advise given which can potentially ruin some naive people life. These people then become quite problematic which still stay in the circle and we are the one having to face them and manage them.

User avatar
Sonam Wangchug
Posts: 196
Joined: Sat Feb 06, 2010 8:26 pm

Re: Gangteng Rinpoche: Buddha really was a giant

Post by Sonam Wangchug » Sun Dec 24, 2017 6:26 pm

WeiHan wrote:
Sun Dec 24, 2017 5:55 pm
Malcolm wrote:
Sun Dec 24, 2017 5:21 pm
WeiHan wrote:
Sun Dec 24, 2017 7:29 am

It got to do with what irrational thinking can lead to in people real life.

Therefore, I would not dream of criticizing them for accepting Mt.Meru or Giant Buddhas.
I did not criticise them for accepting Mt Meru or Giant Buddhas if you read carefully but I am not comfortable with the sweeping attitude towards science and the kind of advise given which can potentially ruin some naive people life. These people then become quite problematic which still stay in the circle and we are the one having to face them and manage them.
Then perhaps you can email Rinpoche and tell him how he can do a better job dealing with his own students, complaining on this forum seems to be accomplishing nothing other than perhaps rubbing people the wrong way.

WeiHan
Posts: 494
Joined: Sun Oct 30, 2011 5:50 pm

Re: Gangteng Rinpoche: Buddha really was a giant

Post by WeiHan » Sun Dec 24, 2017 6:38 pm

Sonam Wangchug wrote:
Sun Dec 24, 2017 6:26 pm

Then perhaps you can email Rinpoche and tell him how he can do a better job dealing with his own students, complaining on this forum seems to be accomplishing nothing other than perhaps rubbing people the wrong way.
This can perhaps be considered.

I am not the one bringing up the issue of 40 dilapidated monasteries in Bhutan but someone brought it up. I should perhaps be complaining about the Bhutanese government instead of the teacher. They are really irresponsible to shove this heavy task on him. Besides, they are quite guilty of instructing him how to "exploit" foreign students for it. Giving excuses such as it is "complicated" will not do. You hear the Bhutanese government story that it is the Rinpoche's intention to take up this task but Rinpoche said it was shoved to him. Creating some social media pressure for the gov can't be irrational bah.
Last edited by WeiHan on Sun Dec 24, 2017 6:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Malcolm
Posts: 28034
Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2010 2:19 am

Re: Gangteng Rinpoche: Buddha really was a giant

Post by Malcolm » Sun Dec 24, 2017 6:56 pm

WeiHan wrote:
Sun Dec 24, 2017 5:55 pm


I did not criticise them for accepting Mt Meru or Giant Buddhas if you read carefully but I am not comfortable with the sweeping attitude towards science and the kind of advise given which can potentially ruin some naive people life. These people then become quite problematic which still stay in the circle and we are the one having to face them and manage them.
People, ultimately, are responsible for themselves and what they choose to believe. It is not my job, nor yours, to condition other people.
Buddhahood in This Life
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


[A]nything at all that is well spoken is the word of the Buddha.

-- Ārya-adhyāśaya-sañcodana-nāma-mahāyāna-sūtra

The different sūtras in accord with the emptiness
taught by the Sugata are definitive in meaning;
One can understand that all of those Dharmas in
which a sentient being, individual, or person are taught are provisional in meaning.

-- Samadhirāja Sūtra

WeiHan
Posts: 494
Joined: Sun Oct 30, 2011 5:50 pm

Re: Gangteng Rinpoche: Buddha really was a giant

Post by WeiHan » Sun Dec 24, 2017 7:01 pm

Malcolm wrote:
Sun Dec 24, 2017 6:56 pm
WeiHan wrote:
Sun Dec 24, 2017 5:55 pm


I did not criticise them for accepting Mt Meru or Giant Buddhas if you read carefully but I am not comfortable with the sweeping attitude towards science and the kind of advise given which can potentially ruin some naive people life. These people then become quite problematic which still stay in the circle and we are the one having to face them and manage them.
People, ultimately, are responsible for themselves and what they choose to believe. It is not my job, nor yours, to condition other people.
yes. then the circle, with more problematic people, will become less welcoming and more difficult to grow. Nobody works, then it closes down.

User avatar
dzogchungpa
Posts: 6333
Joined: Sat May 28, 2011 10:50 pm

Re: Gangteng Rinpoche: Buddha really was a giant

Post by dzogchungpa » Sun Dec 24, 2017 7:01 pm

Malcolm wrote:
Sun Dec 24, 2017 6:56 pm
People, ultimately, are responsible for themselves and what they choose to believe. It is not my job, nor yours, to condition other people.

:smile:


Indeed.
There is not only nothingness because there is always, and always can manifest. - Thinley Norbu Rinpoche

User avatar
Malcolm
Posts: 28034
Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2010 2:19 am

Re: Gangteng Rinpoche: Buddha really was a giant

Post by Malcolm » Sun Dec 24, 2017 7:04 pm

WeiHan wrote:
Sun Dec 24, 2017 7:01 pm
Malcolm wrote:
Sun Dec 24, 2017 6:56 pm
WeiHan wrote:
Sun Dec 24, 2017 5:55 pm


I did not criticise them for accepting Mt Meru or Giant Buddhas if you read carefully but I am not comfortable with the sweeping attitude towards science and the kind of advise given which can potentially ruin some naive people life. These people then become quite problematic which still stay in the circle and we are the one having to face them and manage them.
People, ultimately, are responsible for themselves and what they choose to believe. It is not my job, nor yours, to condition other people.
yes. then the circle, with more problematic people, will become less welcoming and more difficult to grow. Nobody works, then it closes down.
That's called life.
Buddhahood in This Life
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


[A]nything at all that is well spoken is the word of the Buddha.

-- Ārya-adhyāśaya-sañcodana-nāma-mahāyāna-sūtra

The different sūtras in accord with the emptiness
taught by the Sugata are definitive in meaning;
One can understand that all of those Dharmas in
which a sentient being, individual, or person are taught are provisional in meaning.

-- Samadhirāja Sūtra

User avatar
Sonam Wangchug
Posts: 196
Joined: Sat Feb 06, 2010 8:26 pm

Re: Gangteng Rinpoche: Buddha really was a giant

Post by Sonam Wangchug » Sun Dec 24, 2017 7:12 pm

WeiHan wrote:
Sun Dec 24, 2017 6:38 pm
Sonam Wangchug wrote:
Sun Dec 24, 2017 6:26 pm

Then perhaps you can email Rinpoche and tell him how he can do a better job dealing with his own students, complaining on this forum seems to be accomplishing nothing other than perhaps rubbing people the wrong way.
This can perhaps be considered.

I am not the one bringing up the issue of 40 dilapidated monasteries in Bhutan but someone brought it up. I should perhaps be complaining about the Bhutanese government instead of the teacher. They are really irresponsible to shove this heavy task on him. Besides, they are quite guilty of instructing him how to "exploit" foreign students for it. Giving excuses such as it is "complicated" will not do. You hear the Bhutanese government story that it is the Rinpoche's intention to take up this task but Rinpoche said it was shoved to him.
Well.. Being crowned as the main emanation of Pema lingpa within Bhutan responsibility will follow. As far as I understand it at the time that he was recognized the state of the Peling tradition was in serious damage. Within Tibet it was more or less completely wiped out, and within Bhutan as you mentioned there were dilapidated Gompas. Rinpoche would probably rather do other things than fund raise for those monasteries however it seems the responsibility has fallen on him.

Although some may entertain the fantasy that the Nyingma and the Kagyu get along seamlessly within Bhutan, unfortunately, that is not the case. By and large Drukpa kagyu is still the state religion, and has power and influence. From that angle it's not surprising to me, that the government has not aided Rinpoche more in preserving the Peling lineage.

In fact, what is really shocking is that major sites associated with Pema lingpa have fallen into complete dilapidation and the government seemingly has done nothing to fix this.

Pema lingpa some would argue is the Most important Bhutanese master, however, what is clear is that Pema lingpa is an incredibly important Terton, one who is Bhutanese, revealed terma within bhutan, and also continues to take birth within Bhutan as well.

When I had seen pictures of Pema lingpa's birth place grown over with weeds and falling apart, I was shocked. As a country that puts so much emphasis on cultural preservation and so forth, I have to wager that for this to be possible is likely because of some kind of sectarianism at play.

Which is not to say there is a true conflict, Nyingma has been in Bhutan for many centuries, and also, Shabdrung rinpoche was devoted to Guru rinpoche. However, not every follower is as enlightened, and due to limited attitudes some people unfortunately act otherwise. Thinley norbu rinpoche has a Lengthy piece directed to the Bhutanese in his book Gypsy gossip precisely about this.

It should also not be failed to mention that there are Racial divides which fuel this. By and large the Ngalops who occupy western Bhutan have been the power, economically and politically, Ngalops are mostly all Kagyupas. (The state religion is Drukpa kagyu)

Sharchopas despite being the majority do not experience having the same kind of power and position, although some on an individual level may have made strides. Sharchopas by and large are Nyingmapas. Many now practice the Dudjom tersar, however, that's no shocker, as Dudjom rinpoche was actually half Bhutanese and spoke sharchop himself. Also, Thinley norbu rinpoche's wife, and by extension children are also Sharchopa.

Just Bhutan politics 101 :focus:

WeiHan
Posts: 494
Joined: Sun Oct 30, 2011 5:50 pm

Re: Gangteng Rinpoche: Buddha really was a giant

Post by WeiHan » Sun Dec 24, 2017 8:17 pm

Sonam Wangchug wrote:
Sun Dec 24, 2017 7:12 pm
WeiHan wrote:
Sun Dec 24, 2017 6:38 pm
Sonam Wangchug wrote:
Sun Dec 24, 2017 6:26 pm

Then perhaps you can email Rinpoche and tell him how he can do a better job dealing with his own students, complaining on this forum seems to be accomplishing nothing other than perhaps rubbing people the wrong way.
This can perhaps be considered.

I am not the one bringing up the issue of 40 dilapidated monasteries in Bhutan but someone brought it up. I should perhaps be complaining about the Bhutanese government instead of the teacher. They are really irresponsible to shove this heavy task on him. Besides, they are quite guilty of instructing him how to "exploit" foreign students for it. Giving excuses such as it is "complicated" will not do. You hear the Bhutanese government story that it is the Rinpoche's intention to take up this task but Rinpoche said it was shoved to him.
Well.. Being crowned as the main emanation of Pema lingpa within Bhutan responsibility will follow. As far as I understand it at the time that he was recognized the state of the Peling tradition was in serious damage. Within Tibet it was more or less completely wiped out, and within Bhutan as you mentioned there were dilapidated Gompas. Rinpoche would probably rather do other things than fund raise for those monasteries however it seems the responsibility has fallen on him.

Although some may entertain the fantasy that the Nyingma and the Kagyu get along seamlessly within Bhutan, unfortunately, that is not the case. By and large Drukpa kagyu is still the state religion, and has power and influence. From that angle it's not surprising to me, that the government has not aided Rinpoche more in preserving the Peling lineage.

In fact, what is really shocking is that major sites associated with Pema lingpa have fallen into complete dilapidation and the government seemingly has done nothing to fix this.

Pema lingpa some would argue is the Most important Bhutanese master, however, what is clear is that Pema lingpa is an incredibly important Terton, one who is Bhutanese, revealed terma within bhutan, and also continues to take birth within Bhutan as well.

When I had seen pictures of Pema lingpa's birth place grown over with weeds and falling apart, I was shocked. As a country that puts so much emphasis on cultural preservation and so forth, I have to wager that for this to be possible is likely because of some kind of sectarianism at play.

Which is not to say there is a true conflict, Nyingma has been in Bhutan for many centuries, and also, Shabdrung rinpoche was devoted to Guru rinpoche. However, not every follower is as enlightened, and due to limited attitudes some people unfortunately act otherwise. Thinley norbu rinpoche has a Lengthy piece directed to the Bhutanese in his book Gypsy gossip precisely about this.

It should also not be failed to mention that there are Racial divides which fuel this. By and large the Ngalops who occupy western Bhutan have been the power, economically and politically, Ngalops are mostly all Kagyupas. (The state religion is Drukpa kagyu)

Sharchopas despite being the majority do not experience having the same kind of power and position, although some on an individual level may have made strides. Sharchopas by and large are Nyingmapas. Many now practice the Dudjom tersar, however, that's no shocker, as Dudjom rinpoche was actually half Bhutanese and spoke sharchop himself. Also, Thinley norbu rinpoche's wife, and by extension children are also Sharchopa.

Just Bhutan politics 101 :focus:
Yes, I have half-guessed this is the case. But still, it is not right for a government to be sectarian and shove all responsibility to one citizen (in this case Rinpoche). As i said, they may even be guilty of instructing rinpoche to make use of his foreigh students to raise fund for these purpose.

User avatar
Grigoris
Global Moderator
Posts: 17359
Joined: Fri May 14, 2010 9:27 pm
Location: Greece

Re: Gangteng Rinpoche: Buddha really was a giant

Post by Grigoris » Sun Dec 24, 2017 9:49 pm

If anybody has anything intelligent to add to this thread, please contact me.
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde

User avatar
Grigoris
Global Moderator
Posts: 17359
Joined: Fri May 14, 2010 9:27 pm
Location: Greece

Re: Gangteng Rinpoche: Buddha really was a giant

Post by Grigoris » Sun Dec 31, 2017 6:42 pm

The following information has been sent to me regarding Gangteng Rinpoche:
Gangteng Rinpoche has been designated by the King of Bhutan Jigme Wangchuk, and for some time now, as the supreme head of the Nyingma tradition in Bhutan.

http://yeshekhorlo-taiwan.com/wp-conten ... glish-.pdf
http://denverdzogchen.com/teachers.html

Apparently there was some speculation that Gangten Tulku may have resigned from the post, as he apparently had expressed this wish on several occasions, but it is doubtful as he usually sticks to his responsibilities, and values his relation to the king.
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde

Locked

Return to “Nyingma”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 15 guests