Ngakpa International - Vajrayana Training

Khechara
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Ngakpa International - Vajrayana Training

Post by Khechara » Wed Jul 02, 2014 3:57 pm

Greetings everyone. Are there any Dharma brothers and sisters who could shed some light on the Ngakpa International's online course on Vajrayana? A friend of mine wishes to enroll for the course and wants some reviews from others who have studied the same.

Thank you

https://ngakpa.org/vajrayana-training/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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Karma Dorje
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Re: Ngakpa International - Vajrayana Training

Post by Karma Dorje » Wed Jul 02, 2014 4:11 pm

Khechara wrote:Greetings everyone. Are there any Dharma brothers and sisters who could shed some light on the Ngakpa International's online course on Vajrayana? A friend of mine wishes to enroll for the course and wants some reviews from others who have studied the same.

Thank you

https://ngakpa.org/vajrayana-training/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
See this thread about Pema Khandro/Troma Rinpoche/Kalima:

http://dharmawheel.net/viewtopic.php?f=40&t=16819" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

She is certainly controversial compared to other online programs such as Chokyi Nyima Rinpoche's Dharma Sun or FPMT. I would be cautious.
"Although my view is higher than the sky, My respect for the cause and effect of actions is as fine as grains of flour."
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Re: Ngakpa International - Vajrayana Training

Post by DGA » Wed Jul 02, 2014 4:17 pm

Is anyone familiar with the teacher, Pema Khandro? I remember a long-ago discussion on e-sangha about a yogini based in Nevada City, California, USA (or Grass Valley, right next door) with some similarities.

To me the first question is if the teacher behind this program is qualified & capable of leading students through such a program.

Khechara
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Re: Ngakpa International - Vajrayana Training

Post by Khechara » Wed Jul 02, 2014 4:40 pm

Karma Dorje wrote:
Khechara wrote:Greetings everyone. Are there any Dharma brothers and sisters who could shed some light on the Ngakpa International's online course on Vajrayana? A friend of mine wishes to enroll for the course and wants some reviews from others who have studied the same.

Thank you

https://ngakpa.org/vajrayana-training/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
See this thread about Pema Khandro/Troma Rinpoche/Kalima:

http://dharmawheel.net/viewtopic.php?f=40&t=16819" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

She is certainly controversial compared to other online programs such as Chokyi Nyima Rinpoche's Dharma Sun or FPMT. I would be cautious.
Thank you so much, my friend. I had my doubts over this 'lama' and that's why I wasn't in favour of agreeing with my friend's interest in her course. That's why I wanted to get some reviews about the Ngakpa International's expensive online program (they charge $108/month!) before asking my friend to go ahead with it. Thanks for recommeding Choki Nyima Rinpoche's Dharma Sun. I will look into this course.

Khechara
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Re: Ngakpa International - Vajrayana Training

Post by Khechara » Wed Jul 02, 2014 4:41 pm

Jikan wrote: To me the first question is if the teacher behind this program is qualified & capable of leading students through such a program.
I have the same question, Jikan. Would like to know more about this woman and her qualification as a lama.

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conebeckham
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Re: Ngakpa International - Vajrayana Training

Post by conebeckham » Wed Jul 02, 2014 4:58 pm

She's gone by many names, and morphed through many transformations, but the one over-riding element of stability is her interest in marketing herself.

I will say no more.
དམ་པའི་དོན་ནི་ཤེས་རབ་ཆེ་བ་དང་།
རྟོག་གེའི་ཡུལ་མིན་བླ་མའི་བྱིན་རླབས་དང་།
སྐལ་ལྡན་ལས་འཕྲོ་ཅན་གྱིས་རྟོགས་པ་སྟེ།
དེ་ནི་ཤེས་རབ་ལ་ནི་ལོ་རྟོག་སེལ།།


"Absolute Truth is not an object of analytical discourse or great discriminating wisdom,
It is realized through the blessing grace of the Guru and fortunate Karmic potential.
Like this, mistaken ideas of discriminating wisdom are clarified."
- (Kyabje Bokar Rinpoche, from his summary of "The Ocean of Definitive Meaning")

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Re: Ngakpa International - Vajrayana Training

Post by DGA » Wed Jul 02, 2014 4:59 pm

Karma Dorje anticipated my thinking. I think that's the same person.

tingdzin
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Re: Ngakpa International - Vajrayana Training

Post by tingdzin » Thu Jul 03, 2014 6:00 am

She and her teachers were discussed on the previous incarnation of this board. I personally have met her and found her interesting as a person, but her formal credentials cannot even be called weak.

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Re: Ngakpa International - Vajrayana Training

Post by orgyen jigmed » Thu Jul 03, 2014 12:38 pm

Khechara wrote:Greetings everyone. Are there any Dharma brothers and sisters who could shed some light on the Ngakpa International's online course on Vajrayana? A friend of mine wishes to enroll for the course and wants some reviews from others who have studied the same.

Thank you

https://ngakpa.org/vajrayana-training/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Best to ask a High Lama
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Re: Ngakpa International - Vajrayana Training

Post by Adamantine » Mon Sep 03, 2018 8:17 pm

tingdzin wrote:
Thu Jul 03, 2014 6:00 am
She and her teachers were discussed on the previous incarnation of this board. I personally have met her and found her interesting as a person, but her formal credentials cannot even be called weak.
Just came across this statement on an online event add and
it sounds so confidently authoritative I thought it worthwhile
to revisit this quandary:
Pema Khandro is an authorized Lama and lineage holder of the Nyingma and Kagyu lineages, and one of few westerners (and one of the only western women) recognized and enthroned as a Tulku. She is a teacher of Dzogchen and Vajrayana Buddhism, specializing in esoteric Buddhist practices for lay people and householders which focus on direct access to cultivating intrinsic wisdom.
Contentment is the ultimate wealth;
Detachment is the final happiness. ~Sri Saraha

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Re: Ngakpa International - Vajrayana Training

Post by SatyaDakshina » Thu Sep 06, 2018 5:10 am

conebeckham wrote:
Wed Jul 02, 2014 4:58 pm
She's gone by many names, and morphed through many transformations, but the one over-riding element of stability is her interest in marketing herself.

I will say no more.
I wonder why the people on dharmawheel keep trying to harass her. Yes, she has a super long Tibetan name with multiple variants, but so do all Tibetan Buddhists. The beneficial thing about using one’s refuge name or titles is that these have meanings that support one’s practice. Some people choose to use their names, some people don’t - it is up to the person. But generally, this is how it is in Tibetan Buddhism, they may have several names. So the people here must not be very familiar with Tibetan Buddhism. Having many names doesn't make a Lama 'un-credible', it makes them a Tibetan Buddhist who has received many initiations. For example, Jigme Lingpa is one of the major teachers in the Nyingma lineage and he had several names:

Primary Title
kun mkhyen 'jigs med gling pa/

Primary Name
'jigs med gling pa/

Personal Name
mkhyen brtse 'od zer/

Personal Name
rang byung rdo rje mkhyen brtse 'od zer/

Personal Name
pad+ma dbang chen/

First Ordination Name
pad+ma mkhyen brtse'i 'od zer/

Primary Name
吉美林巴/钦则俄色·晋美林巴

Jigme Lingpa

Here is the link to TBRC, which is the Tibetan Buddhist Resource Center to see his profile. https://www.tbrc.org/#!rid=P314

Also, look at Jamgon Kongtrol for example, one of the most respected Tibetan teachers there ever was:

Name Variants
Primary Name
blo gros mtha' yas

Other Name
Lodro Thaye

Bodhisattva Vow Name
ngag dbang blo gros mtha' yas

Terton title
'chi med bstan gnyis g.yung drung gling pa

Terton title
bstan gnyis g.yung drung gling pa

Secret Initiatory Name
pad+ma gar gyi dbang phyug rtsal

Secret Initiatory Name
pad+ma gar dbang phrin las 'gro 'dul rtsal

Bodhisattva Vow Name
pad+ma gar dbang blo gros mtha' yas

Secret Initiatory Name
zil gnon dgyes pa rtsal

Primary Name
贡珠·云丹嘉措

Primary Title
'jam mgon kong sprul blo gros mtha' yas

Title
kong sprul 01 yon tan rgya mtsho

Title
'jam mgon kong sprul yon tan rgya mtsho

Title
kong sprul ngag dbang yon tan rgya mtsho

Title
kong sprul yon tan rgya mtsho

Title
karma ngag dbang yon tan rgya mtsho

Tulku Title
'jam mgon kong sprul 01

Tulku Title
Jamgon Kongtrul 01

Here is the link to his profile on TBRC https://www.tbrc.org/#!rid=P264
TBRC lists many texts and profiles on this site.

I would be surprised if you found any Tibetan Buddhist lineage holders that didn’t have more than one name.

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Re: Ngakpa International - Vajrayana Training

Post by treehuggingoctopus » Thu Sep 06, 2018 7:15 am

SatyaDakshina wrote:
Thu Sep 06, 2018 5:10 am
conebeckham wrote:
Wed Jul 02, 2014 4:58 pm
She's gone by many names, and morphed through many transformations, but the one over-riding element of stability is her interest in marketing herself.

I will say no more.
I wonder why the people on dharmawheel keep trying to harass her. Yes, she has a super long Tibetan name with multiple variants, but so do all Tibetan Buddhists. The beneficial thing about using one’s refuge name or titles is that these have meanings that support one’s practice. Some people choose to use their names, some people don’t - it is up to the person. But generally, this is how it is in Tibetan Buddhism, they may have several names. So the people here must not be very familiar with Tibetan Buddhism. Having many names doesn't make a Lama 'un-credible', it makes them a Tibetan Buddhist who has received many initiations. For example, Jigme Lingpa is one of the major teachers in the Nyingma lineage and he had several names:

Primary Title
kun mkhyen 'jigs med gling pa/

Primary Name
'jigs med gling pa/

Personal Name
mkhyen brtse 'od zer/

Personal Name
rang byung rdo rje mkhyen brtse 'od zer/

Personal Name
pad+ma dbang chen/

First Ordination Name
pad+ma mkhyen brtse'i 'od zer/

Primary Name
吉美林巴/钦则俄色·晋美林巴

Jigme Lingpa

Here is the link to TBRC, which is the Tibetan Buddhist Resource Center to see his profile. https://www.tbrc.org/#!rid=P314

Also, look at Jamgon Kongtrol for example, one of the most respected Tibetan teachers there ever was:

Name Variants
Primary Name
blo gros mtha' yas

Other Name
Lodro Thaye

Bodhisattva Vow Name
ngag dbang blo gros mtha' yas

Terton title
'chi med bstan gnyis g.yung drung gling pa

Terton title
bstan gnyis g.yung drung gling pa

Secret Initiatory Name
pad+ma gar gyi dbang phyug rtsal

Secret Initiatory Name
pad+ma gar dbang phrin las 'gro 'dul rtsal

Bodhisattva Vow Name
pad+ma gar dbang blo gros mtha' yas

Secret Initiatory Name
zil gnon dgyes pa rtsal

Primary Name
贡珠·云丹嘉措

Primary Title
'jam mgon kong sprul blo gros mtha' yas

Title
kong sprul 01 yon tan rgya mtsho

Title
'jam mgon kong sprul yon tan rgya mtsho

Title
kong sprul ngag dbang yon tan rgya mtsho

Title
kong sprul yon tan rgya mtsho

Title
karma ngag dbang yon tan rgya mtsho

Tulku Title
'jam mgon kong sprul 01

Tulku Title
Jamgon Kongtrul 01

Here is the link to his profile on TBRC https://www.tbrc.org/#!rid=P264
TBRC lists many texts and profiles on this site.

I would be surprised if you found any Tibetan Buddhist lineage holders that didn’t have more than one name.
The length of the name does not seem to be the problem here at all.
. . . there they saw a rock! But it wasn't a rock . . .

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Re: Ngakpa International - Vajrayana Training

Post by Grigoris » Thu Sep 06, 2018 8:00 am

SatyaDakshina wrote:
Thu Sep 06, 2018 5:10 am
I wonder why the people on dharmawheel keep trying to harass her. Yes, she has a super long Tibetan name with multiple variants, but so do all Tibetan Buddhists. The beneficial thing about using one’s refuge name or titles is that these have meanings that support one’s practice. Some people choose to use their names, some people don’t - it is up to the person. But generally, this is how it is in Tibetan Buddhism, they may have several names. So the people here must not be very familiar with Tibetan Buddhism. Having many names doesn't make a Lama 'un-credible', it makes them a Tibetan Buddhist who has received many initiations. For example, Jigme Lingpa is one of the major teachers in the Nyingma lineage and he had several names:
If you really want to defend yourself (instead of ridiculous smoke screens and straw men arguments) why not tell us who the teachers were in the Nyingmapa and Kagyu lineages that you claim authorised you to teach (and made you lineage holder) and tell us who recognised and enthroned you as a tulku.
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Re: Ngakpa International - Vajrayana Training

Post by tingdzin » Thu Sep 06, 2018 9:07 am

Adamantine wrote:
Mon Sep 03, 2018 8:17 pm
tingdzin wrote:
Thu Jul 03, 2014 6:00 am
She and her teachers were discussed on the previous incarnation of this board. I personally have met her and found her interesting as a person, but her formal credentials cannot even be called weak.
Just came across this statement on an online event add and
it sounds so confidently authoritative I thought it worthwhile
to revisit this quandary:
Pema Khandro is an authorized Lama and lineage holder of the Nyingma and Kagyu lineages, and one of few westerners (and one of the only western women) recognized and enthroned as a Tulku. She is a teacher of Dzogchen and Vajrayana Buddhism, specializing in esoteric Buddhist practices for lay people and householders which focus on direct access to cultivating intrinsic wisdom.
Without making a judgement on her in particular, all con artists are "confidently authoritative", or they wouldn't get anywhere. Authorized and recognized by whom? I once personally knew an "authorized" tulku who was a huge con. I also know of a person who bugged his lama for a tulku recognition for a long time before finally getting one.

The rest of the promotion is just boilerplate rhetoric.

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Re: Ngakpa International - Vajrayana Training

Post by smcj » Thu Sep 06, 2018 9:45 am

I also know of a person who bugged his lama for a tulku recognition for a long time before finally getting one.
Now there’s an idea....
:rolling:
I support Mingyur R and HHDL in their positions against Lama abuse.

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Lingpupa
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Re: Ngakpa International - Vajrayana Training

Post by Lingpupa » Thu Sep 06, 2018 11:55 am

SatyaDakshina wrote:
Thu Sep 06, 2018 5:10 am
I wonder why the people on dharmawheel keep trying to harass her. Yes, she has a super long Tibetan name with multiple variants, but so do all Tibetan Buddhists. The beneficial thing about using one’s refuge name or titles is that these have meanings that support one’s practice. Some people choose to use their names, some people don’t - it is up to the person. But generally, this is how it is in Tibetan Buddhism, they may have several names. So the people here must not be very familiar with Tibetan Buddhism. Having many names doesn't make a Lama 'un-credible', it makes them a Tibetan Buddhist who has received many initiations. For example, Jigme Lingpa is one of the major teachers in the Nyingma lineage and he had several names:
It's not the names that are the problem. It's the vaporous claims to having received training and authorization that are being called into question.

Your assertion that:
So the people here must not be very familiar with Tibetan Buddhism.
rather in fact suggests the opposite, namely that *you* don't seem very familiar with Tibetan Buddhism.

Who knows?

I do recall an earlier incarnation of Pema Khandro's website which had a whole section devoted to her *lineage*. Sadly, it did not contain the name of one single actual teacher, merely a hand-waving comment something like "her lineage is that of the siddhas..." I didn't keep a copy, so the wording might not be quite right. *That* is the problem - the hand-waving mistiness of it all.
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conebeckham
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Re: Ngakpa International - Vajrayana Training

Post by conebeckham » Thu Sep 06, 2018 5:33 pm

Lingpupa wrote:
Thu Sep 06, 2018 11:55 am
SatyaDakshina wrote:
Thu Sep 06, 2018 5:10 am
I wonder why the people on dharmawheel keep trying to harass her. Yes, she has a super long Tibetan name with multiple variants, but so do all Tibetan Buddhists. The beneficial thing about using one’s refuge name or titles is that these have meanings that support one’s practice. Some people choose to use their names, some people don’t - it is up to the person. But generally, this is how it is in Tibetan Buddhism, they may have several names. So the people here must not be very familiar with Tibetan Buddhism. Having many names doesn't make a Lama 'un-credible', it makes them a Tibetan Buddhist who has received many initiations. For example, Jigme Lingpa is one of the major teachers in the Nyingma lineage and he had several names:
It's not the names that are the problem. It's the vaporous claims to having received training and authorization that are being called into question.

Your assertion that:
So the people here must not be very familiar with Tibetan Buddhism.
rather in fact suggests the opposite, namely that *you* don't seem very familiar with Tibetan Buddhism.

Who knows?

I do recall an earlier incarnation of Pema Khandro's website which had a whole section devoted to her *lineage*. Sadly, it did not contain the name of one single actual teacher, merely a hand-waving comment something like "her lineage is that of the siddhas..." I didn't keep a copy, so the wording might not be quite right. *That* is the problem - the hand-waving mistiness of it all.
Precisely so.
The whole argument about names is a deflection by a defender--likely, someone who registered for the express purpose of deflecting criticism.

If you call yourself an "authorized teacher" in the Kagyu and Nyingma lineages, you need to provide evidence. Who authorized you? What credentials do you have? I'll say nothing about the Tulku claims, let's just stick to the claims of "authorized guru." That title is the "name" that bears weight. We've all got Tibetan names, those of us who've taken refuge, or taken empowerment, or taken Bodhisattva vows. But claiming to be a Guru is a different matter entirely. Very serious assertion. Needs collaboration.
དམ་པའི་དོན་ནི་ཤེས་རབ་ཆེ་བ་དང་།
རྟོག་གེའི་ཡུལ་མིན་བླ་མའི་བྱིན་རླབས་དང་།
སྐལ་ལྡན་ལས་འཕྲོ་ཅན་གྱིས་རྟོགས་པ་སྟེ།
དེ་ནི་ཤེས་རབ་ལ་ནི་ལོ་རྟོག་སེལ།།


"Absolute Truth is not an object of analytical discourse or great discriminating wisdom,
It is realized through the blessing grace of the Guru and fortunate Karmic potential.
Like this, mistaken ideas of discriminating wisdom are clarified."
- (Kyabje Bokar Rinpoche, from his summary of "The Ocean of Definitive Meaning")

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Malcolm
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Re: Ngakpa International - Vajrayana Training

Post by Malcolm » Thu Sep 06, 2018 5:38 pm

conebeckham wrote:
Thu Sep 06, 2018 5:33 pm
Needs collaboration.
Pema Khandro has students, that makes her a teacher by fiat.
Buddhahood in This Life
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


[A]nything at all that is well spoken is the word of the Buddha.

-- Ārya-adhyāśaya-sañcodana-nāma-mahāyāna-sūtra

The different sūtras in accord with the emptiness
taught by the Sugata are definitive in meaning;
One can understand that all of those Dharmas in
which a sentient being, individual, or person are taught are provisional in meaning.

-- Samadhirāja Sūtra

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conebeckham
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Re: Ngakpa International - Vajrayana Training

Post by conebeckham » Thu Sep 06, 2018 5:56 pm

Malcolm wrote:
Thu Sep 06, 2018 5:38 pm
conebeckham wrote:
Thu Sep 06, 2018 5:33 pm
Needs collaboration.
Pema Khandro has students, that makes her a teacher by fiat.
Sure. Nonetheless, claims have been made, and it is reasonable to ask for verification or confirmation. "Examine well the potential Guru," etc., right?
དམ་པའི་དོན་ནི་ཤེས་རབ་ཆེ་བ་དང་།
རྟོག་གེའི་ཡུལ་མིན་བླ་མའི་བྱིན་རླབས་དང་།
སྐལ་ལྡན་ལས་འཕྲོ་ཅན་གྱིས་རྟོགས་པ་སྟེ།
དེ་ནི་ཤེས་རབ་ལ་ནི་ལོ་རྟོག་སེལ།།


"Absolute Truth is not an object of analytical discourse or great discriminating wisdom,
It is realized through the blessing grace of the Guru and fortunate Karmic potential.
Like this, mistaken ideas of discriminating wisdom are clarified."
- (Kyabje Bokar Rinpoche, from his summary of "The Ocean of Definitive Meaning")

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Malcolm
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Re: Ngakpa International - Vajrayana Training

Post by Malcolm » Thu Sep 06, 2018 6:23 pm

conebeckham wrote:
Thu Sep 06, 2018 5:56 pm
Malcolm wrote:
Thu Sep 06, 2018 5:38 pm
conebeckham wrote:
Thu Sep 06, 2018 5:33 pm
Needs collaboration.
Pema Khandro has students, that makes her a teacher by fiat.
Sure. Nonetheless, claims have been made, and it is reasonable to ask for verification or confirmation. "Examine well the potential Guru," etc., right?
Yeah, but if we subject all claims made to scrutiny, very few will really stand up. No? Recognitions, confirmations, etc., are all pretty much politics in my book.
Buddhahood in This Life
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


[A]nything at all that is well spoken is the word of the Buddha.

-- Ārya-adhyāśaya-sañcodana-nāma-mahāyāna-sūtra

The different sūtras in accord with the emptiness
taught by the Sugata are definitive in meaning;
One can understand that all of those Dharmas in
which a sentient being, individual, or person are taught are provisional in meaning.

-- Samadhirāja Sūtra

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