Ngakpa International - Vajrayana Training

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Sonam Wangchug
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Re: Ngakpa International - Vajrayana Training

Post by Sonam Wangchug » Fri Sep 07, 2018 4:42 pm

Tiago Simões wrote:
Fri Sep 07, 2018 8:32 am
Image

She is close to this Chodpa. Does this give her some legitimation?

Btw that is the Chodpa that did Chöd practice at Lama Dawa Chödak Rinpoches funeral, Chodpa Kunzang Dorjee.
No it does not.. There are plenty of "ngakpas" and "chodpas" roaming around Boudhnath, it doesn't mean much..

as Machik lapdron's prophecy says there will be people who wear the robes and have the implements of chodpas in the degenerate times but who are not real chodpas.

There are also spiritual tourists in photos with him playing Hindu style damaru's at chod retreats .. and what?

She has been attending courses he's been given.

And excuse my cynicism, but i'm weary of any "chodpa" who is uploading another profile pic every other day holding damarus and bells, dancing, sitting in cemeteries and so forth. Would not be my first choice.

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Malcolm
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Re: Ngakpa International - Vajrayana Training

Post by Malcolm » Fri Sep 07, 2018 4:43 pm

Sonam Wangchug wrote:
Fri Sep 07, 2018 4:42 am
I know having met great teachers you really 'can't just believe they are only involved in murky politics "working with circumstances" but that they do have the wisdom eye to know who is who, easily at that.
I love the former Penor Rinpoche, have taken teachings from him, etc. However, there is no way that I ever believed nor do I now believe that Osel Mukpo is reincarnation of Ju MIpham. Just so we are clear.
Buddhahood in This Life
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


[A]nything at all that is well spoken is the word of the Buddha.

-- Ārya-adhyāśaya-sañcodana-nāma-mahāyāna-sūtra

The different sūtras in accord with the emptiness
taught by the Sugata are definitive in meaning;
One can understand that all of those Dharmas in
which a sentient being, individual, or person are taught are provisional in meaning.

-- Samadhirāja Sūtra

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Sonam Wangchug
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Re: Ngakpa International - Vajrayana Training

Post by Sonam Wangchug » Fri Sep 07, 2018 4:47 pm

Tiago Simões wrote:
Fri Sep 07, 2018 9:35 am
Grigoris wrote:
Fri Sep 07, 2018 9:13 am
It is not cyber bullying to ask a teacher for their credentials. Not in the slightest.
Although I agree, I also wonder if it is necessarily a requirement for teachers to go around publicly advertising their gurus?

I mean Sogyal advertised that he was jamyang khyentse chökyi lodrös disciple, did that give him legitimacy?
JKCLR passed when Sogyal rinpoche was a child, and SR never had a complete training.

I don't know how accurate it is, but the Aro people claim that HH dudjom rinpoche told Sogyal rinpoche that he should go back to asia and engage in more retreat which he did not do.

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Sonam Wangchug
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Re: Ngakpa International - Vajrayana Training

Post by Sonam Wangchug » Fri Sep 07, 2018 5:12 pm

smcj wrote:
Fri Sep 07, 2018 2:58 pm
Pema Khandro received a recognition and enthronement by the head of the 900 year old Druk Tashi Dhargey Chokor Dechenling Monastery in Tibet, His Eminence Gyaldak Rinpoche. She was recognized as the present reincarnation (tulku) of a nineteenth-century yogini. She was given the title Pema Khandro Rinpoche when she received the lineage of this nineteenth century yogini who practiced in the Nyingma and Kagyu lineages in Eastern Tibet. She continues the legacy of those teachings focusing on Dzogchen, Chod and the Six Yogas. Gyaldak Rinpoche encouraged her to spread the esoteric teachings of Buddhism in North America and throughout the world.
Anyone got that lama’s WeChat?
Red flags all over his Bio.

It often seems to be some random lama from Tibet recognizing funky tulkus. I wonder if she has funded him in any capacity?

While there are authentic tulkus, not all are so, which everyone knows. It's actually not that hard to get a tulku recognition, and even elder lama's have been deceived through tricky ways to obtain them.

In ascertaining authentic Nirmanakaya's of course we do need to use some discriminating wisdom. There are also people who are blessed to carry out the activity of a tulku who are not actually the tulku in question, Tulku thondup says they get the same blessing a statue does.

Some use downright deception, like HH Dorje change Buddha the 3rd (lol) who had a Sakya khenpo forge his letter head. Dzongsar khyentse rinpoche spotted that it was in-authentic because the khenpo was not a good forge and messed up on the color of the sun and moon.

DKR had an hour long interview with HHST who was shocked about it, and was going to make a public statement out against it. When the followers of Dorje chang got wind of this they threatened to sue HHST.. So .. these kind of things happen. (The fake endorsement letter is still in his book)

One of the reasons Chadral sangye dorje rinpoche released a statement which said he did not condone anyone, he does not approve just by being in a photo with someone, and that these lama's should just stay in retreat instead of travelling to foreign countries building more Zandok Palri's.

Then there are cases like that of the 16th karmapa, when no one could find a prediction letter of the 15th, so the Tibetan government put out a tulku, A student of the 16th eventually found the letter, but by the time he reached it was too late, and his candidate was not accepted. As it was such a grave issue which concerned the entire lineage, the previous Gyalwang Drukpa was consulted. He recommended they do many protector prayers and well.. we know what happened. (This is discussed in Tulku urgyen rinpoche's Blazing splendor.)

This lama claims to be recognized as one of the highest tulkus, Phagmodrugpa himself.. That he is a student of 16th karmapa and Chadral sangye dorje, yet where is their recognition of him being such an important lama? .. No where, of course some random yogi from tibet said he was someone, and how much do you want to bet this lama is dead now? mhmm..

So, while there are authentic tulkus, we have to investigate a bit to determine who is really so, and who has obtained a title through other means. A good rule of thumb is to see whether they are a Major tulku, like a terton, empowered and trained as an actual lineage holder, and given permission and told to propagate that lineage.

It is also generally a good sign to see how many in the Himalayan community believe in them and attend their events as they tend to know the inner stories about a given lama. & if they are so major, are there any of the yangsis going to them to receive empowerment's and transmissions? all these things should be looked into.

Phonies will always try to align themselves with higher lama's through any kind of tricky means,and no, a photo with a high lama is not an endorsement. Take for instance Younge khachab rinpoche, his bio says that he is from a family line associated with the Karmapa's and that the 16th Karmapa ordained him, clearly trying to align himself with a powerful figure such as HHGK. However, when I told one of my teachers that my friend was going to his teachings, who is an actual tulku who was closely trained by the 16th.. He warned me, to tell her that he is fraudulent. He does not have any habit of speaking out against teachers, but he was able to help my friend get away, and we know what happened with that case..

Of course people can be benefited by teachers who are not mainstream, but the point is to exercise caution, and that generally, seeing who the lineage holders genuinely had faith in and made their heart sons is meaningful. I am just so sick of fake tulkus, and fake teachers in general harming, and deceiving students, teaching from the motivation of the worldly dharma's. People who are quick to call themselves Dakini's, and all kind of Buddha emanations, while the real tulku's are often busy denigrating themselves as being deluded beings. So I hope that prospective students will take caution. Even in watching a few clips of her on youtube, her answers about the Vajrayana were incredibly weak, pitiful to be honest.

However if a student swears by their benefit, what can I say?

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Malcolm
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Re: Ngakpa International - Vajrayana Training

Post by Malcolm » Fri Sep 07, 2018 5:21 pm

Grigoris wrote:
Fri Sep 07, 2018 7:13 am
Malcolm wrote:
Fri Sep 07, 2018 4:49 am
And yet, even so, there are still lamas who think ChNN is totally wrong and not qualified.
And there are people that think the Pope is infallible. So what?

The point is that he was recognised by the head of a lineage and received traditional training from members of recognised lineages.
ChNN was actually first recognized by his uncle as the reincarnation of Adzom Drukpa. He was also recognized as the reincarnation of a Sakya Khenpo. The 16th Karmapa recognition came much later. And, as we know, his appointment by the 16th Karmapa to teach in Italy did not render ChNN immune from intense criticism within the Tibetan ecclesiastical hierarchy, criticism which continues to this day.
The point is that YOU chose your teachers on the basis of these types of qualifiers, yet here it seems you are telling people that these qualifiers are not actually valid. You are tacitly advocating that people ignore valid qualifiers and follow whoever they feel is fit.
These qualifiers do not prove anything. I know people recognized by this or that lineage head, trained in the great monasteries, who are absolute frauds and scoundrels in every respect.

But that is not my point. For example, no one recognized Ngala Changchub Dorje as a great terton until decades after he passed away. Everyone thought he was just a doctor. It was only after he attained rainbow body that people took note.

Indeed, in a real sense, most Lamas in traditional Tibet lacked these very qualifications that are so prized in the West. Even so, if these qualifications were not so prized in Tibet as well, people would not feel the need to pester high lamas into recognizing their children as Yangsi X and Tulku Y.
That's pretty rich coming from an Acharya.
You still don't get it. Students make the teacher. We see this over and over again. Gather enough students, someone will grant you recognition. We have seen this among westerners several times already.
The fact that people choose unqualified teachers merely underlines the need for reliance on lineage. It does not annul it.
They pick the teachers with whom they have karma, qualifications actually have very little to do with it.

If you do not have the karma to study with this or that "highly qualified" lama, no matter what you do, you will never be able to attend their teachings. It is sort of like the conception of a child. If the gandhavara, the bardo being, does not have proper karma with a certain set of parents, there is no basis for a conception.

Nothing we say about this woman has any relevance to her or her students. She found a Tibetan lama to back her, learned Tibetan, gained academic credentials, etc. In order to question her credentials, you have to question his, and so on and so forth.

In the end, it all comes down to what oneself accepts and rejects.

The tantras do not say, "Examine master so and so for his lineage recognitions, endorsements, associates, etc." What do they say? They mention nothing about lineage heads, etc. They only mention the personal qualities and learning of the prospective master in question.
Buddhahood in This Life
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


[A]nything at all that is well spoken is the word of the Buddha.

-- Ārya-adhyāśaya-sañcodana-nāma-mahāyāna-sūtra

The different sūtras in accord with the emptiness
taught by the Sugata are definitive in meaning;
One can understand that all of those Dharmas in
which a sentient being, individual, or person are taught are provisional in meaning.

-- Samadhirāja Sūtra

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Malcolm
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Re: Ngakpa International - Vajrayana Training

Post by Malcolm » Fri Sep 07, 2018 5:25 pm

Sonam Wangchug wrote:
Fri Sep 07, 2018 5:12 pm
However if a student swears by their benefit, what can I say?
In the end, it all comes down to what oneself accepts and rejects.
Buddhahood in This Life
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


[A]nything at all that is well spoken is the word of the Buddha.

-- Ārya-adhyāśaya-sañcodana-nāma-mahāyāna-sūtra

The different sūtras in accord with the emptiness
taught by the Sugata are definitive in meaning;
One can understand that all of those Dharmas in
which a sentient being, individual, or person are taught are provisional in meaning.

-- Samadhirāja Sūtra

LobsangA
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Re: Ngakpa International - Vajrayana Training

Post by LobsangA » Fri Sep 07, 2018 5:50 pm

Hello Y'all,

My name is Lobsang. I have been a personal student of Pema Khandro Rinpoche for many years (decade+) and just wanted to leave a few words here.

The main questions here seem to be about 'who her teachers are'. These are good questions which I can see why you'd want the answers.

RE: Who Are Her Teachers
You can read on her extended biography page that she received her recognition by H.E. Gyaldak Rinpoche who is the head of the Druk Tashi Dhargey Chokor Dechenling monastery in Tibet. It also explains her recognition as Tulku (9th paragraph).

https://www.pemakhandro.org/pema-khandr ... biography/

I found this link online about H.E. Gyaldak Rinpoche here:
https://gyaldakrinpoche.com/lineage/

3 Paragraphs lower on her extended biography page, you can see in the text that Gangteng Tulku Rinpoche also gave her authorization to teach.

Gangteng Tulku Rinpoche was recognized by H.H. Dudjom Rinpoche and H.H. Dilgo Khyentse Rinpoche.

You can read more about Gangteng Tulku Rinpoche here:
https://yeshekhorlo.org/gangtengtulkurinpoche/

I have met her teachers (Gangteng Tulku Rinpoche and Gyaldak Rinpoche) and I have taken teachings from them at our center in Berkeley.

But this should clarify where her authorization to teach came from.

RE: Examine Well The Potential Guru
I agree, and think this is a good practice. Although I don't think the 'examination' should solely be online in a thread or on a website.

It seems reasonable to read some of her articles in Lion's Roar, attend a free teaching, online or in person as she often holds them in the Bay Area and New York.

Ask her questions, interact with her. Have a direct experience with her.

From My Personal Experience
I generally consider myself to be a 'reasonably' intelligent person. I've been with Pema Khandro Rinpoche for many years as her student. I don't think I would have stayed her student if I didn't see I was changing for the better year after year, becoming more kind, more aware and more clear. I without a doubt consider her my 'root' teacher.

While I've taken teachings from Lama Tharchin Rinpoche, H.H. Kusum Lingpa, the Nechung Oracle (to the Dalai Lama) and more, I've done 90+% of my study/training with Pema Khandro Rinpoche.

My experience with her has always been one where she is constantly (through her teachings and actions) has taught me to be more kind, more aware and more clear. She is singularly focused on spreading the teachings and liberating others, something she works on all day, every day I've seen her. Honestly, I don't know how she has this much energy as it way outpaces my typical work day.

In terms of my pithy experience in practice: I've completed 100K of the Ngongdro practice, 100K of the Chod practice, 100K of the manadala offering practice, 100K Vajrakilaya practice, 4 Vajrakilaya weeklong Drubchen's, a 1 month meditation retreat, a 1 year meditation retreat, and hope to complete a 3 year in this lifetime.

Does this pithy experience make me special? By no means (I still have so much to go), but it doesn't make me 'inexperienced', so hopefully my sentiments have some weight.

Anyways, I appreciate the questions here, hope this provided some more clarity on Pema Khandro Rinpoche, and wish you all nothing but the outer experience of kindness, and the inner experience of awareness and clarity.

Warm Regards,
Lobsang A

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Re: Ngakpa International - Vajrayana Training

Post by treehuggingoctopus » Fri Sep 07, 2018 5:59 pm

Malcolm wrote:
Fri Sep 07, 2018 5:21 pm
The tantras do not say, "Examine master so and so for his lineage recognitions, endorsements, associates, etc." What do they say? They mention nothing about lineage heads, etc. They only mention the personal qualities and learning of the prospective master in question.
Come to think of it, it is a point that is routinely overlooked or misconstrued. Pretty much everybody assumes that endorsements and official recognitions (by appropriate figures, of course) are somehow much more important than what this or that lama comes across as. Our vision is "impure," but those who recognise this or that teacher *know* what they are really like, *see* their actual qualities, etc.
. . . there they saw a rock! But it wasn't a rock . . .

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Re: Ngakpa International - Vajrayana Training

Post by pemachophel » Fri Sep 07, 2018 6:34 pm

Several months ago I was talking to the consort of a well-know Lama sometimes mentioned on DW. We were talking about a group that has tried to use this Lama and one of His Teachers for credentialing and legitimization. (Please don't ask what Lama, what consort, and what group.) She said something that is germane to this thread.

Tibetan Lamas are commonly nice to everyone and especially Their patrons (i.e., people who give Them money). Ask for a picture with Them and They say "Yes." "May all sentient beings be happy and have the causes of happiness." You want a picture with Them. So trying to make you happy, They oblige. End of story. Such Lamas, and especially the older ones, are also often naive about how such pictures may be used for marketing and credentialing purposes. It's not Their modus operandi. They're not on FB and They simply don't think this way. So it's not necessarily something They suspect in others. In some cases, a Lama may put on a smile for a picture with someone who asks but, in private, completely deny that person is or ever was Their student, let alone Their disciple. So, personally, I place little stock in pictures of this or that person with this or that Lama. Such pictures don' t prove anything.

Also, I've watched the movie of Lama Dawa's cremation several times. In it, the Lamas that are the "officlal" ones, i.e., those invited by Lama Dawa's family to preside over and perform the ceremony, are the ones seated under the portico. Chodpa Kunzang Dorje, if that's his name (I have no idea), came to Lama Dawa's cremation on his own and, as far as I know, was not an officiant. So I wouldn't place any particular meaning or importance to this chodpa's attendance at Lama Dawa's cremation and I would definitely not use his attendance as any kind of imprimatur.

(For those who have seen this film, I'll mention something else that has nothing to do with this thread, So please excuse me in advance. Dudjom Lingpa's stye of doing Throma Chod is different from the modern Dudjom style. Lama Dawa was an adherent to the original Dudjom Lingpa style. [Of course! :D ] So the Lamas officiating at His cremation were specifically asked to use this older, original style. If you're a Dudjom Throma practitioner, you might want to check this out.)
Pema Chophel པདྨ་ཆོས་འཕེལ

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Re: Ngakpa International - Vajrayana Training

Post by Grigoris » Fri Sep 07, 2018 6:47 pm

Malcolm wrote:
Fri Sep 07, 2018 5:21 pm
These qualifiers do not prove anything.
In which case there is no reason why I should listen or trust you since your qualifications mean nothing at all? :shrug:
They pick the teachers with whom they have karma, qualifications actually have very little to do with it.
I disagree. My habitual tendencies makes me seek out teachers with credentials and qualifications. So their qualifications are a conditioning factor.
Nothing we say about this woman has any relevance to her or her students.
That goes without saying, I have seen people drawn to all sorts of quackery. No, I am not saying she is a quack, just saying...
She found a Tibetan lama to back her, learned Tibetan, gained academic credentials, etc.
Generally speaking, that is exactly how one goes about becoming a lama. If she has done this (which apparently she has) then she IS a genuine teacher.
...and learning...
I think that is what we have been talking about the whole time. A teachers credentials and qualifications are based on their learning.
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
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Sonam Wangchug
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Re: Ngakpa International - Vajrayana Training

Post by Sonam Wangchug » Fri Sep 07, 2018 6:50 pm

treehuggingoctopus wrote:
Fri Sep 07, 2018 5:59 pm
Malcolm wrote:
Fri Sep 07, 2018 5:21 pm
The tantras do not say, "Examine master so and so for his lineage recognitions, endorsements, associates, etc." What do they say? They mention nothing about lineage heads, etc. They only mention the personal qualities and learning of the prospective master in question.
Come to think of it, it is a point that is routinely overlooked or misconstrued. Pretty much everybody assumes that endorsements and official recognitions (by appropriate figures, of course) are somehow much more important than what this or that lama comes across as. Our vision is "impure," but those who recognise this or that teacher *know* what they are really like, *see* their actual qualities, etc.
You may also notice that some of the highest ranking tulkus and lineage holders do not show case their recognition letters and endorsements all over the place. As their wisdom and seniority are self evident. A teacher who is constantly showcasing this may be showing a sign of insecurity.

It is said that a bodhisattva hides their qualities like a hidden jewel. Take for instance someone like Dilgo khyentse rinpoche, he only regrettingly mentioned in the namthar of Jamyang khyentse chokyi lodro that he was also considered a tulku of JKW, because he was listing all of them. He even said that though he was proclaimed to be, being that sublime beings can manifest pure and impure emanations maybe he is an impure one, with a question mark. This is the mark of a good teacher, who has subdued their mind. Or JKCL himself who always would say he was not such a tulku but just an old bald man.

Take it like a metal detector beep, some gold may be there.. But if you find scat.. Move on.

Good teachers should benefit beings by their bodhichitta, not by their endorsements or letters alone, that is why Yeshe tshogyal prays in the Maha guru prayer may we benefit beings by our bodhichitta. The authentic wisdom emanations will be known by their manifest qualities, however, some will always remain unknown, because not all are recognized.

The issue is with those lacking the background who seem to be very keen on marketing themselves and proving that they are so and so. Amateur.

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Re: Ngakpa International - Vajrayana Training

Post by Grigoris » Fri Sep 07, 2018 6:50 pm

pemachophel wrote:
Fri Sep 07, 2018 6:34 pm
Tibetan Lamas are commonly nice to everyone and especially Their patrons (i.e., people who give Them money).
I think you will find that this applies to just about anybody! :)
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde

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Re: Ngakpa International - Vajrayana Training

Post by Ogaf » Fri Sep 07, 2018 7:01 pm

And this was the last time you all discussed this:

viewtopic.php?f=40&t=16819&hilit=Pema+Khandro[url][/url]

O :coffee:

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Malcolm
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Re: Ngakpa International - Vajrayana Training

Post by Malcolm » Fri Sep 07, 2018 7:09 pm

Grigoris wrote:
Fri Sep 07, 2018 6:47 pm
Malcolm wrote:
Fri Sep 07, 2018 5:21 pm
These qualifiers do not prove anything.
In which case there is no reason why I should listen or trust you since your qualifications mean nothing at all? :shrug:
Correct, unless you have ascertained what I say to be reliable through your own direct perception, there is no reason to take what I say merely because I have a title.

They pick the teachers with whom they have karma, qualifications actually have very little to do with it.
I disagree. My habitual tendencies makes me seek out teachers with credentials and qualifications. So their qualifications are a conditioning factor.
You have accepted the testimony of a bunch of people of whom you have no direct knowledge of their actual inner qualities. You decided to trust someone's testimony based on hearsay, and nothing more. Now then, it may be the case you have decided that your present teacher has the correct qualifications to be your teacher, but that is your decision and is based solely on your own authority.

Nothing we say about this woman has any relevance to her or her students.
That goes without saying, I have seen people drawn to all sorts of quackery. No, I am not saying she is a quack, just saying...
Since you like authority, ask your teacher.

She found a Tibetan lama to back her, learned Tibetan, gained academic credentials, etc.
Generally speaking, that is exactly how one goes about becoming a lama. If she has done this (which apparently she has) then she IS a genuine teacher.
She is a genuine teacher for some people, a fraud for others, or so they say.

...and learning...
I think that is what we have been talking about the whole time. A teachers credentials and qualifications are based on their learning.
It seems that in some circles endorsements are more important than personal qualities.
Buddhahood in This Life
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


[A]nything at all that is well spoken is the word of the Buddha.

-- Ārya-adhyāśaya-sañcodana-nāma-mahāyāna-sūtra

The different sūtras in accord with the emptiness
taught by the Sugata are definitive in meaning;
One can understand that all of those Dharmas in
which a sentient being, individual, or person are taught are provisional in meaning.

-- Samadhirāja Sūtra

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Re: Ngakpa International - Vajrayana Training

Post by florin » Fri Sep 07, 2018 7:12 pm

conebeckham wrote:
Thu Sep 06, 2018 8:02 pm
Without lineage, there is nothing.
The late Thinley Norbu would disagree.
The nature of diverse phenomena is non-dual. This means that both pure vision and impure vision are a manifestation of the energy of the primordial state. Even though in reality there is no duality, everything manifests separately. KG

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Re: Ngakpa International - Vajrayana Training

Post by conebeckham » Fri Sep 07, 2018 7:14 pm

florin wrote:
Fri Sep 07, 2018 7:12 pm
conebeckham wrote:
Thu Sep 06, 2018 8:02 pm
Without lineage, there is nothing.
The late Thinley Norbu would disagree.
Would you care to flesh that out a bit, Florin? I, for one, have no context and therefore no idea what you are talking about.
དམ་པའི་དོན་ནི་ཤེས་རབ་ཆེ་བ་དང་།
རྟོག་གེའི་ཡུལ་མིན་བླ་མའི་བྱིན་རླབས་དང་།
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"Absolute Truth is not an object of analytical discourse or great discriminating wisdom,
It is realized through the blessing grace of the Guru and fortunate Karmic potential.
Like this, mistaken ideas of discriminating wisdom are clarified."
- (Kyabje Bokar Rinpoche, from his summary of "The Ocean of Definitive Meaning")

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florin
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Re: Ngakpa International - Vajrayana Training

Post by florin » Fri Sep 07, 2018 7:33 pm

conebeckham wrote:
Fri Sep 07, 2018 7:14 pm
florin wrote:
Fri Sep 07, 2018 7:12 pm
conebeckham wrote:
Thu Sep 06, 2018 8:02 pm
Without lineage, there is nothing.
The late Thinley Norbu would disagree.
Would you care to flesh that out a bit, Florin? I, for one, have no context and therefore no idea what you are talking about.
In the Magic Dance there is a very interesting chapter on the subject of lineage.
Here is the excerpt where TNR explains why having no lineage doesnt always mean no wisdom.

"Some people think lineage depends on a teacher. Especially
some easterners believe that westerners cannot have
lineage because they are not linked from birth to a spiritual
teacher. Unless we are nihilists and believe only in the visible,
we cannot judge the spiritual qualities of someone who has no
visible teacher in this life. If someone takes water from the tap.
because we have not seen them take it from the source, is this
reason to say it is not water? On a pilgrimage, pilgrims need a
guide at first, but when they know the path, they can go alone.
In the end, just because they have no visible guide, we cannot
say they do not know the path. Of course, for most people
lineage depends on a visible teacher and in general if we can
find a good teacher it is necessary to have a guide. But
according to the Buddhist tradition, if we believe in karma, we
believe that because some people had a visible teacher in
previous lives and have experience with the pure essence of
their elements, they can be reborn to become enlightened
without depending on a visible teacher in this life. Even if we
have one hundred teachers, when we separate from our natural
mind, we have broken lineage. Even if we have no teacher,
when we are connected to our natural mind, we have true
Wisdom Mind lineage."
The nature of diverse phenomena is non-dual. This means that both pure vision and impure vision are a manifestation of the energy of the primordial state. Even though in reality there is no duality, everything manifests separately. KG

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Adamantine
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Re: Ngakpa International - Vajrayana Training

Post by Adamantine » Fri Sep 07, 2018 7:43 pm

LobsangA wrote:
Fri Sep 07, 2018 5:50 pm
Hello Y'all,

My name is Lobsang. I have been a personal student of Pema Khandro Rinpoche for many years (decade+) and just wanted to leave a few words here.

The main questions here seem to be about 'who her teachers are'. These are good questions which I can see why you'd want the answers.

RE: Who Are Her Teachers
You can read on her extended biography page that she received her recognition by H.E. Gyaldak Rinpoche who is the head of the Druk Tashi Dhargey Chokor Dechenling monastery in Tibet. It also explains her recognition as Tulku (9th paragraph).

https://www.pemakhandro.org/pema-khandr ... biography/

I found this link online about H.E. Gyaldak Rinpoche here:
https://gyaldakrinpoche.com/lineage/

3 Paragraphs lower on her extended biography page, you can see in the text that Gangteng Tulku Rinpoche also gave her authorization to teach.

Gangteng Tulku Rinpoche was recognized by H.H. Dudjom Rinpoche and H.H. Dilgo Khyentse Rinpoche.

You can read more about Gangteng Tulku Rinpoche here:
https://yeshekhorlo.org/gangtengtulkurinpoche/

I have met her teachers (Gangteng Tulku Rinpoche and Gyaldak Rinpoche) and I have taken teachings from them at our center in Berkeley.

But this should clarify where her authorization to teach came from.

RE: Examine Well The Potential Guru
I agree, and think this is a good practice. Although I don't think the 'examination' should solely be online in a thread or on a website.

It seems reasonable to read some of her articles in Lion's Roar, attend a free teaching, online or in person as she often holds them in the Bay Area and New York.

Ask her questions, interact with her. Have a direct experience with her.

From My Personal Experience
I generally consider myself to be a 'reasonably' intelligent person. I've been with Pema Khandro Rinpoche for many years as her student. I don't think I would have stayed her student if I didn't see I was changing for the better year after year, becoming more kind, more aware and more clear. I without a doubt consider her my 'root' teacher.

While I've taken teachings from Lama Tharchin Rinpoche, H.H. Kusum Lingpa, the Nechung Oracle (to the Dalai Lama) and more, I've done 90+% of my study/training with Pema Khandro Rinpoche.

My experience with her has always been one where she is constantly (through her teachings and actions) has taught me to be more kind, more aware and more clear. She is singularly focused on spreading the teachings and liberating others, something she works on all day, every day I've seen her. Honestly, I don't know how she has this much energy as it way outpaces my typical work day.

In terms of my pithy experience in practice: I've completed 100K of the Ngongdro practice, 100K of the Chod practice, 100K of the manadala offering practice, 100K Vajrakilaya practice, 4 Vajrakilaya weeklong Drubchen's, a 1 month meditation retreat, a 1 year meditation retreat, and hope to complete a 3 year in this lifetime.

Does this pithy experience make me special? By no means (I still have so much to go), but it doesn't make me 'inexperienced', so hopefully my sentiments have some weight.

Anyways, I appreciate the questions here, hope this provided some more clarity on Pema Khandro Rinpoche, and wish you all nothing but the outer experience of kindness, and the inner experience of awareness and clarity.

Warm Regards,
Lobsang A
Hi Lobsang, I appreciate your sharing your experience and
what you’ve been told of her credentials. As you’ll find in the other (above linked to, now locked thread) on this no one has been able to verify anything about Gyaldrak Rinpoche’s claims, (or those made on his behalf) and no one from Mingyur Rinpoche’s inner circle apparently has any clue who he is despite his claimed association. So those aren’t great signs. Have you been to his monastery in Tibet, and can verify its existence? I know of a least one Lama whose website claims himself as head of a monastery that doesn’t actually exist at the moment (if it ever did).

What’s more, during another period of collective perplexity regarding (then Kali Ma’s) lineage claims I wrote an email inquiry to one of the administrators of Gangteng Tulku Rinpoche’s center in Colorado who was also on their Board of Directors, and this was the response I received:
.
It is true that Kali Ma has had teachings and empowerment from Gangteng Tulku Rinpoche in public settings, and some years back he had been at her center. I have no reason to believe she is an authorized teacher in the Pema Lingpa lineage. She certainly is not a part of the Yeshe Khorlo USA organization and the centers which Rinpoche has established in this country.

I can not address what her present relationship with Gangteng Rinpoche is, or whether at some level he recognizes her as a teacher. But as I say, there is no direct connection with how Rinpoche teaches pure Dharma and her own teachings.

Rinpoche is presently in Bhutan, and there is not a way for me to bring this up to him directly.

I hope this brings some clarity to your question, please feel free to contact me again if you find this response inadequate.
I suppose I could reach out again to further clarify. However it’d be more helpful if you could simply share the letter from Gangteng Rinpoche where he authorized her to teach. If she was authorized, letters are customary so as to prevent any doubt or confusion as expressed in this thread. It’d be much appreciated if you could share it, thank you!
Contentment is the ultimate wealth;
Detachment is the final happiness. ~Sri Saraha

Toenail
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Re: Ngakpa International - Vajrayana Training

Post by Toenail » Fri Sep 07, 2018 8:03 pm

I believe the chodpa on that picture is called Sonam. He is nice and lives in Boudhanath. He goes to many Nyingma empowerments and wears Ngakpa robes. He seems to be a dedicated lay practitioner. I don't think he has any students or that he is teaching. Last time I saw him it was maybe 4 years ago, so dunno what he is doing now.

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Adamantine
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Re: Ngakpa International - Vajrayana Training

Post by Adamantine » Fri Sep 07, 2018 8:09 pm

LobsangA wrote:3 Paragraphs lower on her extended biography page, you can see in the text that Gangteng Tulku Rinpoche also gave her authorization to teach.
Actually I looked at the extended biography and see no place where it says Gangteng Tulku authorized her to teach, only a place where it mentions a name he gave her. We all receive names when we take refuge, or during certain empowerments. This has nothing to do with teaching authority which you should know. Did I miss something or did the website change again? Because these credentials have been changing more quickly than the seasons for many years now. First version of her website I ever saw merely listed her teacher as Rudi/ Swami Rudrananda who she had visionary experiences with (he died in 1973) and another american itinerant yogi named isis or something vaguely like that.... more recently she was publicly advertising Ngakchang Rinpoche of Aro Ter as her root Lama and said she was an apprentice in their lineage. Now he’s not even mentioned in the list of Lamas she’s received teachings from. What happened there? Why do these teachers get edited out of her history? The PR changes to the biography appear pretty extreme and disingenuous, as we are generally trained to retain deep gratitude, respect and devotion to all of our gurus, not discard them like used tissues if it suits our public persona.
Contentment is the ultimate wealth;
Detachment is the final happiness. ~Sri Saraha

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