Ngakpa International - Vajrayana Training

User avatar
Sonam Wangchug
Posts: 242
Joined: Sat Feb 06, 2010 8:26 pm

Re: Ngakpa International - Vajrayana Training

Post by Sonam Wangchug » Fri Sep 07, 2018 8:50 pm

conebeckham wrote:
Fri Sep 07, 2018 7:14 pm
florin wrote:
Fri Sep 07, 2018 7:12 pm
conebeckham wrote:
Thu Sep 06, 2018 8:02 pm
Without lineage, there is nothing.
The late Thinley Norbu would disagree.
Would you care to flesh that out a bit, Florin? I, for one, have no context and therefore no idea what you are talking about.
I do not think it's accurate to say the late Thinley norbu rinpoche would disagree. You make it seem as if he's waving a flag on having no lineage. Rather he is saying there are rare exceptions. Still in general, and unless you are one of those rare beings, you do need lineage, and without lineage there is nothing. Here are some other things Thinley norbu rinpoche said about lineage to give a more well rounded perspective.

Here Rinpoche has some strong words for those who do not believe in lineage.

From Gypsy gossip "In buddhism lineage is essential. It has nothing to do with race or nationality, because it is a lineage of impartial compassion and stainless wisdom that is imparted by transmission. The main key for assessing Buddhism in the West is to notice that many Westerners do not want to accept any tradition from Buddhism in a pure way; they want to create their own form of Buddhism, which becomes non-Buddhist. Many western Buddhist teachers do not accept the importance of Buddhist lineage, and that nonacceptance has become their lineage. Like Henry VIII, who broke away from his own church just so he could divorce, the intentions of these Western teachers have nothing to do with benefiting all beings through the victorious lineage of wisdom. They have not made a spiritual connection to Buddhist lineage, so they leave it out of their versions of Buddhism, which are not based on faith in actual Buddhism or any phenomena of enlightenment, but on ordinary concerns of human beings. Whatever they write about Buddhism is only for themselves personally or for others with the same cultural perspective of rejecting reliance on sublime beings, which makes a lineageless lineage with no blessing to open wisdom. In contrast, in the history of previous Buddhist lineage holders, there were practitioners and saints who were not only from Tibet, but from other lands such as India and China, who searched for unbroken lineage holders from whom they could receive Buddhist lineage. They did this without considering race or nationality, but considering how they could receive the blessing of wisdom from sublime beings with realization in order to be able to hold the lineage teachings of Buddha and for these teachings to be able to flourish. They were not trying to find a way to be personally acknowledged of materially rewarded, but to attain enlightenment for all beings. Due to belief, Tibetans in my time were concerned about being able to receive teachings, blessings, and lineage, and many traveled long distances searching for highly realized teachers who could bestow these. "

If you look through TNR's writings they are full of teachings talking about the importance of an unbroken lineage, receiving the blessings of the lineage, and keeping the lineages purely.

User avatar
Karma Dorje
Posts: 1355
Joined: Thu Sep 01, 2011 10:35 pm

Re: Ngakpa International - Vajrayana Training

Post by Karma Dorje » Fri Sep 07, 2018 8:58 pm

Adamantine wrote:
Fri Sep 07, 2018 8:09 pm
LobsangA wrote:3 Paragraphs lower on her extended biography page, you can see in the text that Gangteng Tulku Rinpoche also gave her authorization to teach.
Actually I looked at the extended biography and see no place where it says Gangteng Tulku authorized her to teach, only a place where it mentions a name he gave her. We all receive names when we take refuge, or during certain empowerments. This has nothing to do with teaching authority which you should know. Did I miss something or did the website change again? Because these credentials have been changing more quickly than the seasons for many years now. First version of her website I ever saw merely listed her teacher as Rudi/ Swami Rudrananda who she had visionary experiences with (he died in 1973) and another american itinerant yogi named isis or something vaguely like that.... more recently she was publicly advertising Ngakchang Rinpoche of Aro Ter as her root Lama and said she was an apprentice in their lineage. Now he’s not even mentioned in the list of Lamas she’s received teachings from. What happened there? Why do these teachers get edited out of her history? The PR changes to the biography appear pretty extreme and disingenuous, as we are generally trained to retain deep gratitude, respect and devotion to all of our gurus, not discard them like used tissues if it suits our public persona.
Fear not, I expect we will have another couple of her students register here to make their first posts to explain the confusion.

If she benefits others, great... but she really shouldn't try to wrap herself in legitimacy based on selfies with chodpas and references that can't be verified without overseas travel. That's just a species of cultural appropriation.

If she has qualities and learning, she should have confidence in them and simply let her prospective students decide for themselves.
"Although my view is higher than the sky, My respect for the cause and effect of actions is as fine as grains of flour."
-Padmasambhava

User avatar
Josef
Posts: 2228
Joined: Thu Jan 07, 2010 6:44 pm
Contact:

Re: Ngakpa International - Vajrayana Training

Post by Josef » Fri Sep 07, 2018 9:47 pm

Karma Dorje wrote:
Fri Sep 07, 2018 8:58 pm
Adamantine wrote:
Fri Sep 07, 2018 8:09 pm
LobsangA wrote:3 Paragraphs lower on her extended biography page, you can see in the text that Gangteng Tulku Rinpoche also gave her authorization to teach.
Actually I looked at the extended biography and see no place where it says Gangteng Tulku authorized her to teach, only a place where it mentions a name he gave her. We all receive names when we take refuge, or during certain empowerments. This has nothing to do with teaching authority which you should know. Did I miss something or did the website change again? Because these credentials have been changing more quickly than the seasons for many years now. First version of her website I ever saw merely listed her teacher as Rudi/ Swami Rudrananda who she had visionary experiences with (he died in 1973) and another american itinerant yogi named isis or something vaguely like that.... more recently she was publicly advertising Ngakchang Rinpoche of Aro Ter as her root Lama and said she was an apprentice in their lineage. Now he’s not even mentioned in the list of Lamas she’s received teachings from. What happened there? Why do these teachers get edited out of her history? The PR changes to the biography appear pretty extreme and disingenuous, as we are generally trained to retain deep gratitude, respect and devotion to all of our gurus, not discard them like used tissues if it suits our public persona.
Fear not, I expect we will have another couple of her students register here to make their first posts to explain the confusion.

If she benefits others, great... but she really shouldn't try to wrap herself in legitimacy based on selfies with chodpas and references that can't be verified without overseas travel. That's just a species of cultural appropriation.

If she has qualities and learning, she should have confidence in them and simply let her prospective students decide for themselves.
Agreed.
There is absolutely no need to make up authorization or recognitions if one has the qualities to guide others and has been requested to do so.
Claims of recognitions etc. amount to little more than marketing material in cases like this.
Kye ma!
The river of continuity is marked by impermanence.
Ceaseless flowing of appearance.
Beautiful and repulsive.
The dance of life and death is a display of the vast expanse.
With gratitude the watcher and the watched pass through the barrier of duality.

Tiago Simões
Posts: 962
Joined: Fri Oct 03, 2014 8:41 pm
Location: Portugal

Re: Ngakpa International - Vajrayana Training

Post by Tiago Simões » Fri Sep 07, 2018 10:18 pm

Sonam Wangchug wrote:
Fri Sep 07, 2018 4:42 pm
No it does not.. There are plenty of "ngakpas" and "chodpas" roaming around Boudhnath, it doesn't mean much..

as Machik lapdron's prophecy says there will be people who wear the robes and have the implements of chodpas in the degenerate times but who are not real chodpas.

There are also spiritual tourists in photos with him playing Hindu style damaru's at chod retreats .. and what?

She has been attending courses he's been given.

And excuse my cynicism, but i'm weary of any "chodpa" who is uploading another profile pic every other day holding damarus and bells, dancing, sitting in cemeteries and so forth. Would not be my first choice.
Cool, wasn't really trying to defend her though, hope I didn't give that impression.
pemachophel wrote:
Fri Sep 07, 2018 6:34 pm
(For those who have seen this film, I'll mention something else that has nothing to do with this thread, So please excuse me in advance. Dudjom Lingpa's stye of doing Throma Chod is different from the modern Dudjom style. Lama Dawa was an adherent to the original Dudjom Lingpa style. [Of course! :D ] So the Lamas officiating at His cremation were specifically asked to use this older, original style. If you're a Dudjom Throma practitioner, you might want to check this out.)
The film of Lama Dawas cremation doesn't seem to be up on Youtube anymore unfortunately.
Then, the Licchavi Vimalakīrti spoke to the elder Śāriputra and the great disciples: “Reverends, eat of the food of the Tathāgata! It is ambrosia perfumed by the great compassion. But do not fix your minds in narrow-minded attitudes, lest you be unable to receive its gift.”

- Chapter 9, The Feast Brought by the Emanated Incarnation
The Noble Mahāyāna Sūtra “The Teaching of Vimalakīrti”

florin
Posts: 1129
Joined: Sun Jan 24, 2010 12:05 pm

Re: Ngakpa International - Vajrayana Training

Post by florin » Fri Sep 07, 2018 10:37 pm

Sonam Wangchug wrote:
Fri Sep 07, 2018 8:50 pm
conebeckham wrote:
Fri Sep 07, 2018 7:14 pm
florin wrote:
Fri Sep 07, 2018 7:12 pm


The late Thinley Norbu would disagree.
Would you care to flesh that out a bit, Florin? I, for one, have no context and therefore no idea what you are talking about.
I do not think it's accurate to say the late Thinley norbu rinpoche would disagree. You make it seem as if he's waving a flag on having no lineage. Rather he is saying there are rare exceptions. Still in general, and unless you are one of those rare beings, you do need lineage, and without lineage there is nothing. Here are some other things Thinley norbu rinpoche said about lineage to give a more well rounded perspective.
What you are referring to is a totally separate issue from the quote i offered.

In the paragraph i posted, TNR refers to the false view of some people that wisdom cannot be made MANIFEST outside of a lineage.

But in the paragraph you posted TNR refers to the idea that lineage is essential with regards to imparting the blessings of wisdom through transmission to beings who don't have it MANIFEST yet and who wish to get on the path. And here he uses the example of how lots of westerners have a twisted idea about what lineage really represents.
However, these two ideas are totally different and in the context of a categorical statement like "Without lineage, there is nothing" the possibility of wisdom manifesting outside of a lineage as a consequence of previous training in past lives is completely excluded.

Indeed in order to have realisation one needs to rely on a lineage.Whether that realisation will manifest in this life or sometime in future lives is unknown at this point.But if it manifests in the future lives it may manifest outside of a lineage.

User avatar
Malcolm
Posts: 28559
Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2010 2:19 am

Re: Ngakpa International - Vajrayana Training

Post by Malcolm » Fri Sep 07, 2018 11:02 pm

florin wrote:
Fri Sep 07, 2018 10:37 pm

Indeed in order to have realisation one needs to rely on a lineage.Whether that realisation will manifest in this life or sometime in future lives is unknown at this point.But if it manifests in the future lives it may manifest outside of a lineage.
And such a person is called a pratyekabuddha, and such persons do not teach, since they manifest in a time and a place where there is no extant lineage of Buddhadharma.
Buddhahood in This Life
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


[A]nything at all that is well spoken is the word of the Buddha.

-- Ārya-adhyāśaya-sañcodana-nāma-mahāyāna-sūtra

The different sūtras in accord with the emptiness
taught by the Sugata are definitive in meaning;
One can understand that all of those Dharmas in
which a sentient being, individual, or person are taught are provisional in meaning.

-- Samadhirāja Sūtra

florin
Posts: 1129
Joined: Sun Jan 24, 2010 12:05 pm

Re: Ngakpa International - Vajrayana Training

Post by florin » Fri Sep 07, 2018 11:17 pm

Malcolm wrote:
Fri Sep 07, 2018 11:02 pm
florin wrote:
Fri Sep 07, 2018 10:37 pm

Indeed in order to have realisation one needs to rely on a lineage.Whether that realisation will manifest in this life or sometime in future lives is unknown at this point.But if it manifests in the future lives it may manifest outside of a lineage.
And such a person is called a pratyekabuddha, and such persons do not teach, since they manifest in a time and a place where there is no extant lineage of Buddhadharma.
Initially i was quite intrigued by the idea that wisdom can manifest in the absence of a lineage context and teacher and i was trying to figure how this could be but of course, now it makes sense.Thanks for the clarification.

User avatar
conebeckham
Posts: 4931
Joined: Mon Jun 14, 2010 11:49 pm
Location: Bay Area, CA, USA

Re: Ngakpa International - Vajrayana Training

Post by conebeckham » Fri Sep 07, 2018 11:19 pm

florin wrote:
Fri Sep 07, 2018 10:37 pm
Sonam Wangchug wrote:
Fri Sep 07, 2018 8:50 pm
conebeckham wrote:
Fri Sep 07, 2018 7:14 pm


Would you care to flesh that out a bit, Florin? I, for one, have no context and therefore no idea what you are talking about.
I do not think it's accurate to say the late Thinley norbu rinpoche would disagree. You make it seem as if he's waving a flag on having no lineage. Rather he is saying there are rare exceptions. Still in general, and unless you are one of those rare beings, you do need lineage, and without lineage there is nothing. Here are some other things Thinley norbu rinpoche said about lineage to give a more well rounded perspective.
What you are referring to is a totally separate issue from the quote i offered.

In the paragraph i posted, TNR refers to the false view of some people that wisdom cannot be made MANIFEST outside of a lineage.

But in the paragraph you posted TNR refers to the idea that lineage is essential with regards to imparting the blessings of wisdom through transmission to beings who don't have it MANIFEST yet and who wish to get on the path. And here he uses the example of how lots of westerners have a twisted idea about what lineage really represents.
However, these two ideas are totally different and in the context of a categorical statement like "Without lineage, there is nothing" the possibility of wisdom manifesting outside of a lineage as a consequence of previous training in past lives is completely excluded.

Indeed in order to have realisation one needs to rely on a lineage.Whether that realisation will manifest in this life or sometime in future lives is unknown at this point.But if it manifests in the future lives it may manifest outside of a lineage.
Just a short note to say I appreciated your original reply, Florin, and also Sonam's additional quote from Rinpoche as well as your fine examination and explication of the differences between the two quotes.

Here's what I think: As a limited, bewildered sentient being with no manifest wisdom and no ability to discern it in others, I rely on other verifiable criteria in choosing a teacher. The chief criterion from amongst these is the verification of authority from a master of a genuine lineage. It may be, as has been suggested, that even those gurus with verifiable authorizations have no wisdom, in fact. It may also be the case that Wisdom Beings may manifest without any verifiable authorization during this lifetime. I am open to that possibility. However, I have no way of verifying it.

I am aware that Buddha had teachers in past lives, and teachers in his "so-called last life" before enlightenment. I'm also guessing that no one would have been able to find a guru of Sakyamuni's who would verify his authorization. :broke: Perhaps this is why Devadatta had attempted to have him assassinated, or to try to kill him himself, by dropping rocks on Sakyamuni, or by attempted Death By Elephant, etc. Then I recall the story of the disciple who, when asked about Sakyamuni, said somewhat dismissively that he was just as an ordinary man, except for that aura around his head. Personally, I will stick to my criteria when examining teachers.
དམ་པའི་དོན་ནི་ཤེས་རབ་ཆེ་བ་དང་།
རྟོག་གེའི་ཡུལ་མིན་བླ་མའི་བྱིན་རླབས་དང་།
སྐལ་ལྡན་ལས་འཕྲོ་ཅན་གྱིས་རྟོགས་པ་སྟེ།
དེ་ནི་ཤེས་རབ་ལ་ནི་ལོ་རྟོག་སེལ།།


"Absolute Truth is not an object of analytical discourse or great discriminating wisdom,
It is realized through the blessing grace of the Guru and fortunate Karmic potential.
Like this, mistaken ideas of discriminating wisdom are clarified."
- (Kyabje Bokar Rinpoche, from his summary of "The Ocean of Definitive Meaning")

DGA
Former staff member
Posts: 9418
Joined: Tue Jul 13, 2010 5:04 pm
Contact:

Re: Ngakpa International - Vajrayana Training

Post by DGA » Sat Sep 08, 2018 1:48 am

Adamantine wrote:
Fri Sep 07, 2018 8:09 pm
LobsangA wrote:3 Paragraphs lower on her extended biography page, you can see in the text that Gangteng Tulku Rinpoche also gave her authorization to teach.
Actually I looked at the extended biography and see no place where it says Gangteng Tulku authorized her to teach, only a place where it mentions a name he gave her. We all receive names when we take refuge, or during certain empowerments. This has nothing to do with teaching authority which you should know. Did I miss something or did the website change again? Because these credentials have been changing more quickly than the seasons for many years now. First version of her website I ever saw merely listed her teacher as Rudi/ Swami Rudrananda who she had visionary experiences with (he died in 1973) and another american itinerant yogi named isis or something vaguely like that.... more recently she was publicly advertising Ngakchang Rinpoche of Aro Ter as her root Lama and said she was an apprentice in their lineage. Now he’s not even mentioned in the list of Lamas she’s received teachings from. What happened there? Why do these teachers get edited out of her history? The PR changes to the biography appear pretty extreme and disingenuous, as we are generally trained to retain deep gratitude, respect and devotion to all of our gurus, not discard them like used tissues if it suits our public persona.
I think the itinerant yogi was named Isa (the Arabic name for Jesus), which stuck in my mind because I know there are universalist-style Sufis in Nevada City/Grass Valley. Similarly, one of Rudi's disciples, Swami Khecaranatha, had been teaching in that same area; I think one of his students has a center there, or at least had one. I bring this up because at the time, Kali Ma seemed like a product of a certain social network from this part of Northern California. I used to wonder if I had crossed paths with her at one time.
Last edited by DGA on Sat Sep 08, 2018 1:56 am, edited 1 time in total.

DGA
Former staff member
Posts: 9418
Joined: Tue Jul 13, 2010 5:04 pm
Contact:

Re: Ngakpa International - Vajrayana Training

Post by DGA » Sat Sep 08, 2018 1:52 am

Ogaf wrote:
Fri Sep 07, 2018 7:01 pm
And this was the last time you all discussed this:

viewtopic.php?f=40&t=16819&hilit=Pema+Khandro[url][/url]

O :coffee:
I'm confident her group is having more fun than we are at this very moment. I hope they are.

User avatar
Malcolm
Posts: 28559
Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2010 2:19 am

Re: Ngakpa International - Vajrayana Training

Post by Malcolm » Sat Sep 08, 2018 1:54 am

DGA wrote:
Sat Sep 08, 2018 1:52 am
Ogaf wrote:
Fri Sep 07, 2018 7:01 pm
And this was the last time you all discussed this:

viewtopic.php?f=40&t=16819&hilit=Pema+Khandro[url][/url]

O :coffee:
I'm confident her group is having more fun than we are at this very moment. I hope they are.
Oh, no doubt. Of course, being a serious teacher isn't any fun at all. So I hope she is not having too much fun.
Buddhahood in This Life
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


[A]nything at all that is well spoken is the word of the Buddha.

-- Ārya-adhyāśaya-sañcodana-nāma-mahāyāna-sūtra

The different sūtras in accord with the emptiness
taught by the Sugata are definitive in meaning;
One can understand that all of those Dharmas in
which a sentient being, individual, or person are taught are provisional in meaning.

-- Samadhirāja Sūtra

User avatar
treehuggingoctopus
Posts: 1672
Joined: Sun Jun 05, 2011 6:26 pm
Location: Mudhole? Slimy? My home, this is.

Re: Ngakpa International - Vajrayana Training

Post by treehuggingoctopus » Sat Sep 08, 2018 8:14 am

Sonam Wangchug wrote:
Fri Sep 07, 2018 6:50 pm
treehuggingoctopus wrote:
Fri Sep 07, 2018 5:59 pm
Malcolm wrote:
Fri Sep 07, 2018 5:21 pm
The tantras do not say, "Examine master so and so for his lineage recognitions, endorsements, associates, etc." What do they say? They mention nothing about lineage heads, etc. They only mention the personal qualities and learning of the prospective master in question.
Come to think of it, it is a point that is routinely overlooked or misconstrued. Pretty much everybody assumes that endorsements and official recognitions (by appropriate figures, of course) are somehow much more important than what this or that lama comes across as. Our vision is "impure," but those who recognise this or that teacher *know* what they are really like, *see* their actual qualities, etc.
You may also notice that some of the highest ranking tulkus and lineage holders do not show case their recognition letters and endorsements all over the place. As their wisdom and seniority are self evident. A teacher who is constantly showcasing this may be showing a sign of insecurity.

It is said that a bodhisattva hides their qualities like a hidden jewel. Take for instance someone like Dilgo khyentse rinpoche, he only regrettingly mentioned in the namthar of Jamyang khyentse chokyi lodro that he was also considered a tulku of JKW, because he was listing all of them. He even said that though he was proclaimed to be, being that sublime beings can manifest pure and impure emanations maybe he is an impure one, with a question mark. This is the mark of a good teacher, who has subdued their mind. Or JKCL himself who always would say he was not such a tulku but just an old bald man.

Take it like a metal detector beep, some gold may be there.. But if you find scat.. Move on.

Good teachers should benefit beings by their bodhichitta, not by their endorsements or letters alone, that is why Yeshe tshogyal prays in the Maha guru prayer may we benefit beings by our bodhichitta. The authentic wisdom emanations will be known by their manifest qualities, however, some will always remain unknown, because not all are recognized.

The issue is with those lacking the background who seem to be very keen on marketing themselves and proving that they are so and so. Amateur.
Josef wrote:
Fri Sep 07, 2018 9:47 pm
Karma Dorje wrote:
Fri Sep 07, 2018 8:58 pm
Adamantine wrote:
Fri Sep 07, 2018 8:09 pm


Actually I looked at the extended biography and see no place where it says Gangteng Tulku authorized her to teach, only a place where it mentions a name he gave her. We all receive names when we take refuge, or during certain empowerments. This has nothing to do with teaching authority which you should know. Did I miss something or did the website change again? Because these credentials have been changing more quickly than the seasons for many years now. First version of her website I ever saw merely listed her teacher as Rudi/ Swami Rudrananda who she had visionary experiences with (he died in 1973) and another american itinerant yogi named isis or something vaguely like that.... more recently she was publicly advertising Ngakchang Rinpoche of Aro Ter as her root Lama and said she was an apprentice in their lineage. Now he’s not even mentioned in the list of Lamas she’s received teachings from. What happened there? Why do these teachers get edited out of her history? The PR changes to the biography appear pretty extreme and disingenuous, as we are generally trained to retain deep gratitude, respect and devotion to all of our gurus, not discard them like used tissues if it suits our public persona.
Fear not, I expect we will have another couple of her students register here to make their first posts to explain the confusion.

If she benefits others, great... but she really shouldn't try to wrap herself in legitimacy based on selfies with chodpas and references that can't be verified without overseas travel. That's just a species of cultural appropriation.

If she has qualities and learning, she should have confidence in them and simply let her prospective students decide for themselves.
Agreed.
There is absolutely no need to make up authorization or recognitions if one has the qualities to guide others and has been requested to do so.
Claims of recognitions etc. amount to little more than marketing material in cases like this.
:good:
. . . there they saw a rock! But it wasn't a rock . . .

User avatar
Tongnyid Dorje
Posts: 108
Joined: Thu Aug 29, 2013 9:16 pm

Re: Ngakpa International - Vajrayana Training

Post by Tongnyid Dorje » Sat Sep 08, 2018 4:05 pm

Toenail wrote:
Fri Sep 07, 2018 8:03 pm
I believe the chodpa on that picture is called Sonam. He is nice and lives in Boudhanath. He goes to many Nyingma empowerments and wears Ngakpa robes. He seems to be a dedicated lay practitioner. I don't think he has any students or that he is teaching. Last time I saw him it was maybe 4 years ago, so dunno what he is doing now.
actually, he has students, mainly westerners, he founded some Machik Labdrons institute, or smthng like that.

User avatar
Tongnyid Dorje
Posts: 108
Joined: Thu Aug 29, 2013 9:16 pm

Re: Ngakpa International - Vajrayana Training

Post by Tongnyid Dorje » Sat Sep 08, 2018 4:09 pm

Josef wrote:
Fri Sep 07, 2018 9:47 pm

Agreed.
There is absolutely no need to make up authorization or recognitions if one has the qualities to guide others and has been requested to do so.
Claims of recognitions etc. amount to little more than marketing material in cases like this.
No! you can have a qualities and lead the students, but then you are not claiming to be tulku, or Rinpoche, ar lineage holder. As soon, as you are calling yourself by such a title, you need authorization. And this was quite normal even in old Tibet.

User avatar
Josef
Posts: 2228
Joined: Thu Jan 07, 2010 6:44 pm
Contact:

Re: Ngakpa International - Vajrayana Training

Post by Josef » Sat Sep 08, 2018 5:45 pm

Tongnyid Dorje wrote:
Sat Sep 08, 2018 4:09 pm
Josef wrote:
Fri Sep 07, 2018 9:47 pm

Agreed.
There is absolutely no need to make up authorization or recognitions if one has the qualities to guide others and has been requested to do so.
Claims of recognitions etc. amount to little more than marketing material in cases like this.
No! you can have a qualities and lead the students, but then you are not claiming to be tulku, or Rinpoche, ar lineage holder. As soon, as you are calling yourself by such a title, you need authorization. And this was quite normal even in old Tibet.
Uh, that's kind of what I just said.
Kye ma!
The river of continuity is marked by impermanence.
Ceaseless flowing of appearance.
Beautiful and repulsive.
The dance of life and death is a display of the vast expanse.
With gratitude the watcher and the watched pass through the barrier of duality.

DGA
Former staff member
Posts: 9418
Joined: Tue Jul 13, 2010 5:04 pm
Contact:

Re: Ngakpa International - Vajrayana Training

Post by DGA » Sat Sep 08, 2018 5:55 pm

Malcolm wrote:
Sat Sep 08, 2018 1:54 am
DGA wrote:
Sat Sep 08, 2018 1:52 am

I'm confident her group is having more fun than we are at this very moment. I hope they are.
Oh, no doubt. Of course, being a serious teacher isn't any fun at all. So I hope she is not having too much fun.
That's what I don't understand about those persons who really, really, really want to be the Sage on the Stage. A Rinpoche's life ain't easy. You make more money and get just as much action as a motivational speaker or corporate consultant.

pemachophel
Posts: 1230
Joined: Sat Dec 25, 2010 9:19 pm
Location: Lafayette, CO

Re: Ngakpa International - Vajrayana Training

Post by pemachophel » Sat Sep 08, 2018 6:43 pm

"As soon, as you are calling yourself by such a title, you need authorization. And this was quite normal even in old Tibet."

There is a Lama here in Colorado who taught under his own name for 10 years or more without really attracting more than a dozen or so rotating students. Then his Board of Directors voted to give him the title Rinpoche and his sangha has grown considerably since then. They now have their own piece of land, a new temple, etc., etc.

(A Dharma friend who was on the BOD at the time told me they voted to give the Lama that title specifically for marketing purposes. This friend then left the BOD and that organization altogether after that.)
Pema Chophel པདྨ་ཆོས་འཕེལ

User avatar
Adamantine
Former staff member
Posts: 3771
Joined: Tue Feb 08, 2011 7:09 am
Location: Space is the Place

Re: Ngakpa International - Vajrayana Training

Post by Adamantine » Sat Sep 08, 2018 8:09 pm

Re: my last comment in this thread, someone pointed out via PM that I’d overlooked one brief mention of Ngak’chang Rinpoche
in her extended bio. She does refer to him as one of her two
root Lamas (the other being Gangteng Tulku Rinpoche, and I already shared the sentiments from one of his close Sangha members). However in a very extensive biography it’s a bit odd that two root Lamas would be mentioned merely in passing...
also that a long time disciple of hers registered here just to defend her and claimed Gangteng Tulku authorized her to teach referring to the biography when the biography says nothing of the sort. And the prior teacher she used to refer to was Isa, I was corrected here and also via PM. So I still wonder why these central figures in her story and life—Isa and Rudi—who used to be
the only gurus mentioned on her website, have been totally edited out of her history.
This is a morose quandary for me as I wish nothing more than for more empowered women wisdom lineage holders to manifest and help balance out the patriarchal culture which dharma has moved through and which seems like a cultural relic which has no real relevance in our contemporary time and place. I have great respect for some Western women teachers who are quite honest and direct about their journey and their teachers all along, such as Tsultrim Allione (who’s certainly gotten flak nonetheless) and Khandro Kunzang Dechen Chodron, Elizabeth Namgyal, Ani Tenzin Palmo, Lama Yeshe from Spain, and more..
Contentment is the ultimate wealth;
Detachment is the final happiness. ~Sri Saraha

Sherab Rigdrol
Posts: 190
Joined: Sat Mar 09, 2013 9:07 pm

Re: Ngakpa International - Vajrayana Training

Post by Sherab Rigdrol » Sat Sep 08, 2018 11:09 pm

Adamantine wrote:
Sat Sep 08, 2018 8:09 pm
Re: my last comment in this thread, someone pointed out via PM that I’d overlooked one brief mention of Ngak’chang Rinpoche
in her extended bio. She does refer to him as one of her two
root Lamas (the other being Gangteng Tulku Rinpoche, and I already shared the sentiments from one of his close Sangha members). However in a very extensive biography it’s a bit odd that two root Lamas would be mentioned merely in passing...
also that a long time disciple of hers registered here just to defend her and claimed Gangteng Tulku authorized her to teach referring to the biography when the biography says nothing of the sort. And the prior teacher she used to refer to was Isa, I was corrected here and also via PM. So I still wonder why these central figures in her story and life—Isa and Rudi—who used to be
the only gurus mentioned on her website, have been totally edited out of her history.
This is a morose quandary for me as I wish nothing more than for more empowered women wisdom lineage holders to manifest and help balance out the patriarchal culture which dharma has moved through and which seems like a cultural relic which has no real relevance in our contemporary time and place. I have great respect for some Western women teachers who are quite honest and direct about their journey and their teachers all along, such as Tsultrim Allione (who’s certainly gotten flak nonetheless) and Khandro Kunzang Dechen Chodron, Elizabeth Namgyal, Ani Tenzin Palmo, Lama Yeshe from Spain, and more..
Exactly! The whole "attacking a female teacher" argument is a red herring. This has been about identifying the competency and legitimacy of an individual who has been throwing up red flags since the early days of her web presence. Malcolm is correct in that nothing anyone says will have any effect on another individual's karmic predisposition towards studying with her.

As for me I encountered and wasted most of my 20's studying with false teachers. It wasn't until I started to find negative comments here and there on various blogs that I was able to fully re-evaluate and leave them. So who knows, maybe threads like this will redirect an aspiring dharma practitioner to study with one of the amazing female lamas posted above (I'll also add Sangye Khandro and Sarah Harding into the mix).

https://web.archive.org/web/20070404102 ... 80/bio.php

smcj
Posts: 5853
Joined: Wed May 29, 2013 6:13 am

Re: Ngakpa International - Vajrayana Training

Post by smcj » Sun Sep 09, 2018 12:41 am

Sangye Khandro👍
I support Mingyur R and HHDL in their positions against Lama abuse.

Locked

Return to “Nyingma”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: TrimePema and 13 guests