Interview with Khenchen Rigdzin Dorje on the Nyingmapa View

DENZONG
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Re: Interview with Khenchen Rigdzin Dorje on the Nyingmapa V

Post by DENZONG » Fri Aug 21, 2015 5:34 am

@conebeckham: You are asking about the position of Yangthang Rinpoche (Dolma Terton), yes he is a very important Rinpoche of Sikkim, and loved by all of us. The monks of Pemayangtse Monastery have a lot of respect for him, and Yangthang Rinpoche is very good to the Chogyal of Sikkim, even at this age he blessed the Royal Palace with his visit there few months back. He is the Ultimate Guru of Sikkim, and we are blessed under his guidance. Now, after him there is no other Rinpoche to look upon and this position is a very prestigious position. Let me tell you few more things about Khempo Rinzing: He is actually from South India (but of Tibetan Origin), he join the monastic life at a very young age. Later he join a Sheda of Chadral Rinpoche in Mysore, and hailed as a very good student and soon got the title of Khempo and was given the authority to teach on the higher level. So, now he was in Nepal and had opened up a class in Kathmandu, in one of those deserted carpet manufacturing handloom houses. Then, after few years he was invited to Sikkim to handle the Takshe Sheda in Sikkim, and to educate the Sikkimese monks and give them knowledge on "Rinzin Sogdrup," as the Khempo had received training on this subject in Mysore and Nepal and is actually good at it. But slowly slowly, he started to pour foreign students from other neighbouring countries, which he was not suppose to do, he got married which he was not suppose to do, started calling himself the lineage holder of Rinzin Sogdrup, which would virtually make him above Latsung Chempo (as Latsung Chempo had discovered it and not established it) and if he is above Latsung Chempo, then he will be equal to or may be above Yangthang Rimpoche, this one claim will lift him from Khempo to The Ultimate Guru of Sikkim. I hope you understand what I'm trying to explain here. Now I think it was @T. Chokyi who made a comment stating that the Khempo is the heart son of Chadral Rinpoche which again virtually mean's Khempo will be his successor, I've read this claim of him only on his website http://nyingmainstitutemartam.org/Institute.aspx and no where else and there is no proof that he is the heartson of Chadral Rinpoche, we all love Chadral Rinpoche and we dont want wrong things happening with his lineage. The lineage holder of Rinzin Sogdrup, the heart son of Chadral Rinpoche, can be nothing but one of the biggest Buddhist Gurus in the whole world. Money has corrupted him, as he was a good teacher and a good/ambitious student, and ambition can be very dangerous when there is no growth after a certain point of time, and above the title Khempo there is Rinpoche, and he now claims to be a Rinpoche. He has also conferred many monks to the rank of Khempo and even Tulkus, when the fact is he himself is not a Rinpoche and is in no position to do so. There is this disciple of him, who calls himself Karthok Tulku. So this monk (K.Tulku), an intelligent student, went to Chadral Rinpoche, to get permission from him to be conferred as Karthok Tulku, but Chadral Rinpoche made it very clear that he is not a Tulku and to concentrate on his studies, but Khempo Rinzing, should tell this monk to stop calling himself Karthok Tulku. M really sorry to his followers but whatever I've stated is nothing but the truth. We don't want money to mix with religion in Sikkim at the least. Westerners, Easterners, Northerners, Southerners all are welcome to Sikkim to learn about religion but without involving donations in between. See what will be your position if you don't give any donations for a span of 2 years.

MalaBeads
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Re: Interview with Khenchen Rigdzin Dorje on the Nyingmapa V

Post by MalaBeads » Fri Aug 21, 2015 12:03 pm

Denzong,

Perhaps the first thing to understand is that when T. Chokyi uses the word wealth, he (or she, i have no idea about T. Chokyi's gender) may not be referring only to money. Many of our teachers have used this word to refer to the Sambogakaya realm. So in the dharma realm, "wealth" may not only refer to money. This is one of the very many problems with language, and words. No matter how well you speak anothers language, you may still misunderstand what is being said. I have said this before and i will say it again here. Because you are not american, you never understand americans the way we do each other. And because we are not tibetans, we will never understand you like another tibetan will. (Or indian or bhutanese or whatever....)

Secondly, the things we do know about one another are only mediated through language, as a poor a tool as it is. So immediately, we all enter the realm of gossip, and lies, and sometimes even truth. Its very understandable that you do not want money and ambition mixed up with the dharma. And in a way, its also very good that honest and true communication has begun to take place. So far, in my experience, i find westerners much more forgiving and understanding than those from your part of the world. But of course, I would say that. I am a westerner.

I am glad this conversation is happening. Welcome to Dharma Wheel and to the rest of the world.
I am well aware of my idiocy. I am also very aware that you too are an idiot. Therein lies our mutuality.

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Tsongkhapafan
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Re: Interview with Khenchen Rigdzin Dorje on the Nyingmapa V

Post by Tsongkhapafan » Fri Aug 21, 2015 1:34 pm

Um, back to the article....I don't agree with what he says about Tsongkhapa's view.

But Tsong Khapa says it exists by itself out there, out of the mind. But according to the Nyingma view, we say everything is empty, nothing exists outside, on its own side. Like a dream when we are dreaming, we can see, we can hear, we can experience everything but it does not really exist outside on its own independently.

Ratnashree: So it just appears?

Khenpo: Yeah, it just appears. It’s the appearance of the mind. But it is not the mind per se. Like the table is the appearance or vision of the mind but the table is not the mind per se (as it has no awareness).
Tsongkhapa does not assert that things exist outside the mind, quite the opposite. There is no disagreement with the Nyingma view of conventional truths: they are just mere appearances to the mind and don't exist outside the mind.

DENZONG
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Re: Interview with Khenchen Rigdzin Dorje on the Nyingmapa V

Post by DENZONG » Fri Aug 21, 2015 3:45 pm

MalaBeads wrote:Denzong,

Perhaps the first thing to understand is that when T. Chokyi uses the word wealth, he (or she, i have no idea about T. Chokyi's gender) may not be referring only to money. Many of our teachers have used this word to refer to the Sambogakaya realm. So in the dharma realm, "wealth" may not only refer to money. This is one of the very many problems with language, and words. No matter how well you speak anothers language, you may still misunderstand what is being said. I have said this before and i will say it again here. Because you are not american, you never understand americans the way we do each other. And because we are not tibetans, we will never understand you like another tibetan will. (Or indian or bhutanese or whatever....)

Secondly, the things we do know about one another are only mediated through language, as a poor a tool as it is. So immediately, we all enter the realm of gossip, and lies, and sometimes even truth. Its very understandable that you do not want money and ambition mixed up with the dharma. And in a way, its also very good that honest and true communication has begun to take place. So far, in my experience, i find westerners much more forgiving and understanding than those from your part of the world. But of course, I would say that. I am a westerner.

I am glad this conversation is happening. Welcome to Dharma Wheel and to the rest of the world.



Had the word such as "Wealth" been used by T.Chokyi, in place of "Donation Dollars" it would have been a different scenario. It's been clearly mentioned in his/her post about donation dollars and sponsors, and it brings kind of a marketing idea to me. I know what it means when you use the word "Wealth", and I know the American Way to quite an extent, I live in Sikkim but I do use subways, shop at Macy's and eat in Cipriani's at times. So I think I can understand u all to quite some extent.
Yes it is true, Westerners are quite forgiving and understanding and you all try to help by sending donations from your hard earned money, which once reach to its destination does some good but corrupts people as well. The things is, the donation you all send actually turns out to be in surplus and then the monks,who turn out to be one in search of peace and giving up comfort, ends up in more comfort than their past. So in many cases plp try to be monk and seek for higher ranks to get the comfort and luxury that the donations from the West provides. You know, donation is not necessary for Dharma to spread. Buddhism started from India and reach to many parts of Asia and some parts of modern day Europe too, but during those days such kind of money was not available, but still it worked. The point is Buddhism is all about simplicity and Money and Simplicity can hardly co-exist.

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Ivo
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Re: Interview with Khenchen Rigdzin Dorje on the Nyingmapa V

Post by Ivo » Sat Aug 22, 2015 5:43 am

DENZONG wrote:Had the word such as "Wealth" been used by T.Chokyi, in place of "Donation Dollars" it would have been a different scenario. It's been clearly mentioned in his/her post about donation dollars and sponsors, and it brings kind of a marketing idea to me. I know what it means when you use the word "Wealth", and I know the American Way to quite an extent, I live in Sikkim but I do use subways, shop at Macy's and eat in Cipriani's at times. So I think I can understand u all to quite some extent.
Yes it is true, Westerners are quite forgiving and understanding and you all try to help by sending donations from your hard earned money, which once reach to its destination does some good but corrupts people as well. The things is, the donation you all send actually turns out to be in surplus and then the monks,who turn out to be one in search of peace and giving up comfort, ends up in more comfort than their past. So in many cases plp try to be monk and seek for higher ranks to get the comfort and luxury that the donations from the West provides. You know, donation is not necessary for Dharma to spread. Buddhism started from India and reach to many parts of Asia and some parts of modern day Europe too, but during those days such kind of money was not available, but still it worked. The point is Buddhism is all about simplicity and Money and Simplicity can hardly co-exist.
Denzong, there is no escaping this. However much we long to resurrect the past (or rather, our idea of the past) this is the reality now, and it would probably only get worse. What is circulating these days is not gold from our grandpa's chest, nor hard earned butter and flour, it is a global currency which has accumulated unimaginable amount of non-virtue. No donation can be clean, no matter who the benefactor is. It all brings obstacles, quarrels, difficulties. The only thing we have left is our own inner strength, decency and integrity. We should not lose ourselves to the forces of darkness, but instead we should strive to kindle and rekindle all the bits and pieces of the true Dharma we can find, even if they are in the most unlikely places, and people. Among us, Dharma practitioners, teachers, students, we share more in common than we realize. In a world which has no values, no light and no hope we have at least recognized that there is still something worthwhile, something pure. Most of us do not have the strength to resist all disturbing emotions... these days students are flawed and teachers are flawed as well. But one thing is certain - confrontation will not do any good. Mindfulness and skilfull means might.

lama tsewang
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Re: Interview with Khenchen Rigdzin Dorje on the Nyingmapa V

Post by lama tsewang » Sat Aug 22, 2015 10:14 am

when i read this stuff about people sending donations to asia, its very upsetting to me , because i dont see people trying to use the money to support monastics here. Many tibetans try to take money out of our part of the world , and dont support the development of strong monastic sanghas here. They treat western monks as second class,and drain support that could be going to establish Dharma more strongly here.

Lama Tsewang

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Re: Interview with Khenchen Rigdzin Dorje on the Nyingmapa V

Post by DGA » Tue Aug 25, 2015 2:11 pm

lama tsewang wrote:when i read this stuff about people sending donations to asia, its very upsetting to me , because i dont see people trying to use the money to support monastics here. Many tibetans try to take money out of our part of the world , and dont support the development of strong monastic sanghas here. They treat western monks as second class,and drain support that could be going to establish Dharma more strongly here.

Lama Tsewang
I came back to this thread to make a similar point in response to Denzong's observations. It seems to me that those in Europe, North America, and elsewhere who can afford to support the Dharma certainly should do so--and should consider funding local centers and practitioners first and foremost.

Second, I think a better way to support Tibetan communities in India, Nepal, and Tibet itself would be to fund health clinics, schools, and cultural projects (and so on) that 1. have some oversight and 2. benefit people more directly, giving them the possibility of supporting their local centers and monasteries.

This way the Dharma flourishes everywhere.

T. Chokyi
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Re: Interview with Khenchen Rigdzin Dorje on the Nyingmapa V

Post by T. Chokyi » Tue Aug 25, 2015 4:05 pm

MalaBeads wrote:Denzong,

Perhaps the first thing to understand is that when T. Chokyi uses the word wealth, he (or she, i have no idea about T. Chokyi's gender) may not be referring only to money. Many of our teachers have used this word to refer to the Sambogakaya realm. So in the dharma realm, "wealth" may not only refer to money. This is one of the very many problems with language, and words. No matter how well you speak anothers language, you may still misunderstand what is being said. I have said this before and i will say it again here. Because you are not american, you never understand americans the way we do each other. And because we are not tibetans, we will never understand you like another tibetan will. (Or indian or bhutanese or whatever....)

Secondly, the things we do know about one another are only mediated through language, as a poor a tool as it is. So immediately, we all enter the realm of gossip, and lies, and sometimes even truth. Its very understandable that you do not want money and ambition mixed up with the dharma. And in a way, its also very good that honest and true communication has begun to take place. So far, in my experience, i find westerners much more forgiving and understanding than those from your part of the world. But of course, I would say that. I am a westerner.

I am glad this conversation is happening. Welcome to Dharma Wheel and to the rest of the world.
You really understood, but that could be because we both listen to CHNN, that is what I meant.

MalaBeads
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Re: Interview with Khenchen Rigdzin Dorje on the Nyingmapa V

Post by MalaBeads » Tue Aug 25, 2015 8:35 pm

T. Chokyi wrote:
MalaBeads wrote:Denzong,

Perhaps the first thing to understand is that when T. Chokyi uses the word wealth, he (or she, i have no idea about T. Chokyi's gender) may not be referring only to money. Many of our teachers have used this word to refer to the Sambogakaya realm. So in the dharma realm, "wealth" may not only refer to money. This is one of the very many problems with language, and words. No matter how well you speak anothers language, you may still misunderstand what is being said. I have said this before and i will say it again here. Because you are not american, you never understand americans the way we do each other. And because we are not tibetans, we will never understand you like another tibetan will. (Or indian or bhutanese or whatever....)

Secondly, the things we do know about one another are only mediated through language, as a poor a tool as it is. So immediately, we all enter the realm of gossip, and lies, and sometimes even truth. Its very understandable that you do not want money and ambition mixed up with the dharma. And in a way, its also very good that honest and true communication has begun to take place. So far, in my experience, i find westerners much more forgiving and understanding than those from your part of the world. But of course, I would say that. I am a westerner.

I am glad this conversation is happening. Welcome to Dharma Wheel and to the rest of the world.
You really understood, but that could be because we both listen to CHNN, that is what I meant.
T. Chokyi,

I thought that's what you meant. I just wanted to be sure denzong understood it as well.

All the best.
I am well aware of my idiocy. I am also very aware that you too are an idiot. Therein lies our mutuality.

MalaBeads
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Joined: Fri Oct 28, 2011 12:47 am

Re: Interview with Khenchen Rigdzin Dorje on the Nyingmapa V

Post by MalaBeads » Sun Aug 30, 2015 1:17 pm

Denzong,

There is one thing in your post that has been bothering me and i didnt say anything initially but finally now I am responding. It is this:
DENZONG wrote: I know the American Way to quite an extent, I live in Sikkim but I do use subways, shop at Macy's and eat in Cipriani's at times. So I think I can understand u all to quite some extent.
I guess I am wondering who shops at Macy's and eats out? I certainly don't and most dharma practitioners I know don't either. The world is changing quite rapidly, Denzong, and while this may have been true thirty years ago, it is no longer true. Dharma practitioners here do not have money to do such things. Most Dharma people that I know are quite poor actually.

To say that you understand westerners "to quite some extent" based on this criteria says to me that you do not understand dharma people in the west at all.

Anyway, I just wanted to sat that because it has been bothering me a bit. I don't want to offend your understanding, but i did want to communicate a bit more about how it actually is here.

Ciao.
I am well aware of my idiocy. I am also very aware that you too are an idiot. Therein lies our mutuality.

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