In ChNN's system Dzogchen transmission is all you need, and then the lung and khrid for a given deity.KrisW wrote:Is the tonwang of the namcho shitro sufficient, or are you mentioning a specific shitro empowerment?Malcolm wrote:The Nyingma view is that if you receive a Shitro empowerments, then all you really need for any deity is the lung and khrid. Sakya, Kagyu (there is a lot a variation depending on Nyingma influenced), and Gelug will generally maintain that to practice two different lineage of same deity, you need two empowerments.Grigoris wrote:This I can understand. So since the mandala is different one would need to initiated into the specific mandala. Okay.
As for the practice and mantra, it makes sense that one would need a lung.
But I am talking more from the angle of the essential nature of the Yidam.
Empowerment question Krodha Kali / Dudjom Tersar
Re: Empowerment question Krodha Kali / Dudjom Tersar
Re: Empowerment question Krodha Kali / Dudjom Tersar
Does khrid need to be live in person, or if the Lama says read this book, it's good enough?
Re: Empowerment question Krodha Kali / Dudjom Tersar
If the lama is instructing you to gain clarification from a textual source the lama probably considers that sufficient.Lhasa wrote:Does khrid need to be live in person, or if the Lama says read this book, it's good enough?
"All phenomena of samsara depend on the mind, so when the essence of mind is purified, samsara is purified. Since the phenomena of nirvana depend on the pristine consciousness of vidyā, because one remains in the immediacy of vidyā, buddhahood arises on its own. All critical points are summarized with those two." - Longchenpa
Re: Empowerment question Krodha Kali / Dudjom Tersar
Lhasa wrote:Does khrid need to be live in person, or if the Lama says read this book, it's good enough?
If the guru says read this book it is enough.
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Re: Empowerment question Krodha Kali / Dudjom Tersar
When and where did Bhakha Tulku give the Guhyagarbha wang? I never heard about it. As he is one of my primary teachers, I would have loved to receive it from him.
P.T.
P.T.
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Re: Empowerment question Krodha Kali / Dudjom Tersar
How was this done in india before there was kagyu and sakya?
Is this because the transmission or the sadhana come to the lineage masters directly from from the deity?
Geoffrey Samuel in his book Introducing Tibetan Buddhism (page 71) puts it this way:
Is this why one who receives empowerment form kagyu shouldn't practice the sakya sadhana?Since Tantric practice is always performed within a specific lineage of transmission that authorizes the practice.....the practicioner is niot invoking Avalokiteśvara in general but a specific from of Avalokiteśvara with whom he or she has established a bond through the ritual empowerment
It seems very odd since both came from naropa....?
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Re: Empowerment question Krodha Kali / Dudjom Tersar
also what is 'khrid'? the instructions?
Re: Empowerment question Krodha Kali / Dudjom Tersar
"We are all here to help each other go through this thing, whatever it is."
~Kurt Vonnegut
"The principal practice is Guruyoga. But we need to understand that any secondary practice combined with Guruyoga becomes a principal practice." ChNNR (Teachings on Thun and Ganapuja)
~Kurt Vonnegut
"The principal practice is Guruyoga. But we need to understand that any secondary practice combined with Guruyoga becomes a principal practice." ChNNR (Teachings on Thun and Ganapuja)
Re: Empowerment question Krodha Kali / Dudjom Tersar
There are important differences in these two lineages concerning how the empowerments are given, instructions, and so on.Fortyeightvows wrote: ↑Fri Dec 22, 2017 6:29 amHow was this done in india before there was kagyu and sakya?
Is this because the transmission or the sadhana come to the lineage masters directly from from the deity?
Re: Empowerment question Krodha Kali / Dudjom Tersar
Bakha Tullku gave the Guhyagarbha Wang at his house in Berkely, CA in 1992.pema tsultrim wrote: ↑Fri Dec 22, 2017 5:35 am When and where did Bhakha Tulku give the Guhyagarbha wang? I never heard about it. As he is one of my primary teachers, I would have loved to receive it from him.
P.T.
Re: Empowerment question Krodha Kali / Dudjom Tersar
Can you elaborate on the main differences, please?Malcolm wrote: ↑Fri Dec 22, 2017 3:22 pmThere are important differences in these two lineages concerning how the empowerments are given, instructions, and so on.Fortyeightvows wrote: ↑Fri Dec 22, 2017 6:29 amHow was this done in india before there was kagyu and sakya?
Is this because the transmission or the sadhana come to the lineage masters directly from from the deity?
Look at those charlatans, madly engaged
in fervent argument.
- Milarepa
in fervent argument.
- Milarepa
Re: Empowerment question Krodha Kali / Dudjom Tersar
In my own case, one of my teachers was giving teachings on the Shitro/Bardo from Karma Lingpa. I asked if the Shitro from the Nyingma Kahma qualified me for those teachings. He said no, because the NK Shitro only had Maha and Anu yoga, where as the Karma Lingpa Shitro had an Ati section, which were the source of the teachings he was giving. Just saying,...heart wrote: ↑Mon Aug 21, 2017 4:00 pmMaybe I don't understand but are you saying that if you have the Shitro empowerment you don't need a Khrodha Kali empowerment to practice Khrodha Kali, for example in the Dudjom tradition?Malcolm wrote:heart wrote:
I never heard anyone, except you, say this. Do you have a source for this?
/magnus
Well, Ayang Rinpoche mentioned this in a retreat. Bakha Tulku reaffirmed it when he gave us the Guhyagarbha empowerment, since I asked him about it.
/magnus
"People are fond of saying all sorts of things about others behind their backs, mentioning their names again and again. Instead of slandering others in this way, “slander” the yidam: utter his name repeatedly by reciting his mantra all the time." - Dilgo Khyentse Rinpoche - Zurchungpa’s Testament - Shambhala Publications