Leader?

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Tenma
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Leader?

Post by Tenma » Sat Oct 14, 2017 9:19 pm

I get that the Dalai Lama leads the Gelugs, the Karmapa leads the Kagyupas, the Sakya Trizin leads the Sakyapas, but who leads the Nyingmapas? Dudjom Rinpoche? Or who?

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dzogchungpa
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Re: Leader?

Post by dzogchungpa » Sat Oct 14, 2017 9:22 pm

Tenma wrote:
Sat Oct 14, 2017 9:19 pm
I get that the Dalai Lama leads the Gelugs, the Karmapa leads the Kagyupas, the Sakya Trizin leads the Sakyapas, but who leads the Nyingmapas? Dudjom Rinpoche? Or who?

Well, the Karmapa is only the head of the Karma Kagyu and I believe the head of the Gelugs is actually the Ganden Tripa. As far as Nyingma is concerned, I don't think there is one at the moment.
If you focus on an object, you are not meditating. - Dudjom Rinpoche

Tenma
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Re: Leader?

Post by Tenma » Sat Oct 14, 2017 9:25 pm

dzogchungpa wrote:
Sat Oct 14, 2017 9:22 pm
Tenma wrote:
Sat Oct 14, 2017 9:19 pm
I get that the Dalai Lama leads the Gelugs, the Karmapa leads the Kagyupas, the Sakya Trizin leads the Sakyapas, but who leads the Nyingmapas? Dudjom Rinpoche? Or who?

Well, the Karmapa is only the head of the Karma Kagyu and I believe the head of the Gelugs is actually the Ganden Tripa. As far as Nyingma is concerned, I don't think there is one at the moment.
Who is it usually?

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dzogchungpa
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Re: Leader?

Post by dzogchungpa » Sat Oct 14, 2017 9:31 pm

Tenma wrote:
Sat Oct 14, 2017 9:25 pm
dzogchungpa wrote:
Sat Oct 14, 2017 9:22 pm
Tenma wrote:
Sat Oct 14, 2017 9:19 pm
I get that the Dalai Lama leads the Gelugs, the Karmapa leads the Kagyupas, the Sakya Trizin leads the Sakyapas, but who leads the Nyingmapas? Dudjom Rinpoche? Or who?

Well, the Karmapa is only the head of the Karma Kagyu and I believe the head of the Gelugs is actually the Ganden Tripa. As far as Nyingma is concerned, I don't think there is one at the moment.
Who is it usually?

My understanding is that there was no head of the Nyingma in Tibet. Such a position was created in exile. There is no specific tulku or head of a specific monastery or whatever that is usually the head of the Nyingma. See: http://www.rigpawiki.org/index.php?titl ... _Nyingmapa
If you focus on an object, you are not meditating. - Dudjom Rinpoche

Tenma
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Re: Leader?

Post by Tenma » Sat Oct 14, 2017 9:35 pm

dzogchungpa wrote:
Sat Oct 14, 2017 9:31 pm
Tenma wrote:
Sat Oct 14, 2017 9:25 pm
dzogchungpa wrote:
Sat Oct 14, 2017 9:22 pm



Well, the Karmapa is only the head of the Karma Kagyu and I believe the head of the Gelugs is actually the Ganden Tripa. As far as Nyingma is concerned, I don't think there is one at the moment.
Who is it usually?

My understanding is that there was no head of the Nyingma in Tibet. Such a position was created in exile. There is no specific tulku or head of a specific monastery or whatever that is usually the head of the Nyingma. See: http://www.rigpawiki.org/index.php?titl ... _Nyingmapa
Ah, I see. So there is no traditional leader of the Nyingmapas nor any reincarnation findings of this ruler or hereditary lineage like that of the Sakya.

crazy-man
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Re: Leader?

Post by crazy-man » Sun Oct 15, 2017 12:19 am

Supreme Head of the Nyinmapa;
Dudjom Jigdral Yeshe Dorje (c. 1904–1987), served from the 1960s until his death.
Dilgo Khyentse (c. 1910–1991), served from 1987 until his death.
Penor Rinpoche (1932–2009) served from 1991 until retirement in 2003.
Mindrolling Trichen (c. 1930–2008), served from 2003 until his death.
Trulshik Rinpoche (1923–2011), served from 2010 until his death on September 2, 2011. Selected after Chatral Rinpoche declined the position.
Taklung Tsetrul Rinpoche (1926-2015), served from 2012 until his death.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nyingma
His Holiness the Dalai Lama has appointed Jangtse Choejey Kyabje Jetsun Lobsang Tenzin Palsangpo as the 104th Gaden Tripa. The Gaden Tripa ‘Holder of the Gaden Throne’ is the title of the spiritual head of the Gelug school of Tibetan Buddhism. Je Tsongkhapa (1357–1419), who founded the Gelug school was the first Ganden Tripa. The lineage has, since, been held by the Gaden Tripas.
The Gaden Tripa is an appointed office, not a reincarnation lineage. It occurs once every seven years (completion of term) or earlier (due to unforeseen events like death). The title is bestowed alternately on one or the other of the two Chojeys – Sharpa Chojey or Jangtse Chojey. The appointment is based on academic merit which is the basis of the hierarchical progression.
Although the appointment of Gaden Tripa is automatic, it is usually confirmed by His Holiness the Dalai Lama who publicly announces the appointment or nomination at the time of changeover.
http://tibet.net/2017/06/his-holiness-t ... den-tripa/

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Dorje Shedrub
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Re: Leader?

Post by Dorje Shedrub » Mon Oct 16, 2017 12:41 am


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tiagolps
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Re: Leader?

Post by tiagolps » Mon Oct 16, 2017 7:59 am

Dzongsar Khyentse Rinpoche said the leader of the Nyingma tradition is King Trisong Detsen.

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You overcome even the greatest of evils.

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Erik Pema Kunsang
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Re: Leader?

Post by Erik Pema Kunsang » Sat Nov 11, 2017 4:29 pm

Tulku Urgyen Rinpoche told me that he served as the Karmapa's representative as head of the Kagyus for a while in Central Tibet at the regular meetings in Lhasa, prior to the exedus in the late '50s. The Chinese governing body had sought to control the population through reigning in the heads of the various lineages and traditions. When faced with the lack of hierarchy, the Chinese governor demanded that the four schools elect one leader each, to make communications from the Reds understood and obeyed. So rather than the six monastic seats for the Nyingma tradition, one was selected and that was Dudjom Rinpoche. It was an artificial figure head, and each received a monthly bag of silver coins. Tulku Urgyen told me that when resigning he threw his in the Brahmaputra/Tsangpo.

When arriving in India, the four heads continued as administrators for the refugees. But this doesn't change the fact that the origin of the four heads are a Chinese invention for political control.

:oops:

Simon E.
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Re: Leader?

Post by Simon E. » Sat Nov 11, 2017 5:25 pm

Exactly.

And one that appeals to many westerners because we are conditioned to expect an imposed hierarchy.

Actually, imposing a hierarchy on Tibetans is a little like trying to herd cats... 8-)

They are more likely to acknowledge an emergent hierarchy than an imposed one.

Word gets round........
"Any major dude with half a heart
Will surely tell you my friend,
Any minor world that breaks apart
Can fall together again.
Any major dude will tell you."

Steely Dan.

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heart
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Re: Leader?

Post by heart » Sat Nov 11, 2017 8:56 pm

Erik Pema Kunsang wrote:
Sat Nov 11, 2017 4:29 pm
Tulku Urgyen Rinpoche told me that he served as the Karmapa's representative as head of the Kagyus for a while in Central Tibet at the regular meetings in Lhasa, prior to the exedus in the late '50s. The Chinese governing body had sought to control the population through reigning in the heads of the various lineages and traditions. When faced with the lack of hierarchy, the Chinese governor demanded that the four schools elect one leader each, to make communications from the Reds understood and obeyed. So rather than the six monastic seats for the Nyingma tradition, one was selected and that was Dudjom Rinpoche. It was an artificial figure head, and each received a monthly bag of silver coins. Tulku Urgyen told me that when resigning he threw his in the Brahmaputra/Tsangpo.

When arriving in India, the four heads continued as administrators for the refugees. But this doesn't change the fact that the origin of the four heads are a Chinese invention for political control.

:oops:
:good:

/magnus
"We are all here to help each other go through this thing, whatever it is."
~Kurt Vonnegut

"The principal practice is Guruyoga. But we need to understand that any secondary practice combined with Guruyoga becomes a principal practice." ChNNR (Teachings on Thun and Ganapuja)

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