How do Lay People Become Khenpos?

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Motova
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How do Lay People Become Khenpos?

Post by Motova » Fri Dec 08, 2017 1:05 am

What does one have to memorize?

What texts does one need to be familiar with?

What tasks does one have to complete?

Thank you.
Malcolm wrote:
Fri Jan 24, 2014 3:58 pm
The four means of converting beings to the Dharma are generosity (which itself as four aspects: giving material gifts, conferring fearlessness, loving kindness and teaching Dharma), pleasant speech, conduct and setting an example.

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Thomas Amundsen
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Re: How do Lay People Become Khenpos?

Post by Thomas Amundsen » Fri Dec 08, 2017 1:06 am

Can it be done without going to Shedra? Do you know any examples? My teacher is a lay Khenpo, but he spent like a decade in Shedra to accomplish that.

Motova
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Re: How do Lay People Become Khenpos?

Post by Motova » Fri Dec 08, 2017 1:08 am

Thomas Amundsen wrote:
Fri Dec 08, 2017 1:06 am
Can it be done without going to Shedra? Do you know any examples?
I remember seeing a white guy being awarded one on Facebook. Some translator connected with Rangjung Yeshe Institute I think.
Malcolm wrote:
Fri Jan 24, 2014 3:58 pm
The four means of converting beings to the Dharma are generosity (which itself as four aspects: giving material gifts, conferring fearlessness, loving kindness and teaching Dharma), pleasant speech, conduct and setting an example.

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Thomas Amundsen
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Re: How do Lay People Become Khenpos?

Post by Thomas Amundsen » Fri Dec 08, 2017 1:10 am

Motova wrote:
Fri Dec 08, 2017 1:08 am
Thomas Amundsen wrote:
Fri Dec 08, 2017 1:06 am
Can it be done without going to Shedra? Do you know any examples?
I remember seeing a white guy being awarded one on Facebook. Some translator connected with Rangjung Yeshe Institute I think.
Got it. Interesting! Unfortunately, I don't know the answer. If I were to guess, it sounds like an "honorary" degree to me and basically some accomplished Khenpo decided that this translator was qualified to earn that title. There may not be official criteria.

Punya
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Re: How do Lay People Become Khenpos?

Post by Punya » Fri Dec 08, 2017 5:25 am

Do you mean this Motova?

May the stupid meditators be awakened from the sleep of ignorance;
May the attacks of the logicians with their sophistries be vanquished.

Chogyam Trungpa Rinpoche in The Rain of Wisdom

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heart
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Re: How do Lay People Become Khenpos?

Post by heart » Fri Dec 08, 2017 5:41 am

Thomas Amundsen wrote:
Fri Dec 08, 2017 1:10 am
Motova wrote:
Fri Dec 08, 2017 1:08 am
Thomas Amundsen wrote:
Fri Dec 08, 2017 1:06 am
Can it be done without going to Shedra? Do you know any examples?
I remember seeing a white guy being awarded one on Facebook. Some translator connected with Rangjung Yeshe Institute I think.
Got it. Interesting! Unfortunately, I don't know the answer. If I were to guess, it sounds like an "honorary" degree to me and basically some accomplished Khenpo decided that this translator was qualified to earn that title. There may not be official criteria.
No, that isn't right. There are a few western students that did the full studies of a Khenpo at the Ka-Nying Shedrub Ling monastery. These guys understand Tibetan and follow the same classes as the monks. To be called Khenpo they also need to do the public examination, I know at least one that didn't do that. He was interested in the studies, not the title.
Erik Pema Kunzang's lifetime award have nothing to do with the Khenpo studies.

/magnus
"We are all here to help each other go through this thing, whatever it is."
~Kurt Vonnegut

"The principal practice is Guruyoga. But we need to understand that any secondary practice combined with Guruyoga becomes a principal practice." ChNNR (Teachings on Thun and Ganapuja)

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Thomas Amundsen
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Re: How do Lay People Become Khenpos?

Post by Thomas Amundsen » Fri Dec 08, 2017 6:39 am

heart wrote:
Fri Dec 08, 2017 5:41 am
Thomas Amundsen wrote:
Fri Dec 08, 2017 1:10 am
Motova wrote:
Fri Dec 08, 2017 1:08 am


I remember seeing a white guy being awarded one on Facebook. Some translator connected with Rangjung Yeshe Institute I think.
Got it. Interesting! Unfortunately, I don't know the answer. If I were to guess, it sounds like an "honorary" degree to me and basically some accomplished Khenpo decided that this translator was qualified to earn that title. There may not be official criteria.
No, that isn't right. There are a few western students that did the full studies of a Khenpo at the Ka-Nying Shedrub Ling monastery. These guys understand Tibetan and follow the same classes as the monks. To be called Khenpo they also need to do the public examination, I know at least one that didn't do that. He was interested in the studies, not the title.
Erik Pema Kunzang's lifetime award have nothing to do with the Khenpo studies.

/magnus
Oh, I did not see Motova's post and had no idea that OP was referring to Erik Pema Kunsang. Well, there you go! Thanks for the clarification. :anjali:

dzoki
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Re: How do Lay People Become Khenpos?

Post by dzoki » Fri Dec 08, 2017 10:28 am

Motova wrote:
Fri Dec 08, 2017 1:05 am
What does one have to memorize?

What texts does one need to be familiar with?

What tasks does one have to complete?

Thank you.

Lay people do not and cannot become a khenpo (upadhyaya). Khenpo is a monastic title. In a strict sense it means preceptor, the one who gives precepts to monks, in other words a funciont akin to abbot. Later it also became associated with scholarly achievement, but that is not a propper way to use the title of khenpo. Lay people can become lobpon (acharya).

Motova
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Re: How do Lay People Become Khenpos?

Post by Motova » Fri Dec 08, 2017 2:48 pm

Punya wrote:
Fri Dec 08, 2017 5:25 am
Do you mean this Motova?

Maybe. Although maybe not.
Malcolm wrote:
Fri Jan 24, 2014 3:58 pm
The four means of converting beings to the Dharma are generosity (which itself as four aspects: giving material gifts, conferring fearlessness, loving kindness and teaching Dharma), pleasant speech, conduct and setting an example.

Motova
Posts: 1045
Joined: Sun Sep 16, 2012 11:05 pm

Re: How do Lay People Become Khenpos?

Post by Motova » Fri Dec 08, 2017 2:49 pm

Motova wrote:
Fri Dec 08, 2017 1:05 am
What does one have to memorize?

What texts does one need to be familiar with?

What tasks does one have to complete?

Thank you.
:focus:
Malcolm wrote:
Fri Jan 24, 2014 3:58 pm
The four means of converting beings to the Dharma are generosity (which itself as four aspects: giving material gifts, conferring fearlessness, loving kindness and teaching Dharma), pleasant speech, conduct and setting an example.

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heart
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Re: How do Lay People Become Khenpos?

Post by heart » Fri Dec 08, 2017 3:05 pm

dzoki wrote:
Fri Dec 08, 2017 10:28 am
Motova wrote:
Fri Dec 08, 2017 1:05 am
What does one have to memorize?

What texts does one need to be familiar with?

What tasks does one have to complete?

Thank you.

Lay people do not and cannot become a khenpo (upadhyaya). Khenpo is a monastic title. In a strict sense it means preceptor, the one who gives precepts to monks, in other words a funciont akin to abbot. Later it also became associated with scholarly achievement, but that is not a propper way to use the title of khenpo. Lay people can become lobpon (acharya).
Over time, the term Khenpo has come to refer loosely to the teachers who receive the highest levels of scholarship in the shedra
http://www.bodhipath.org/index.php?id=322

/magnus
"We are all here to help each other go through this thing, whatever it is."
~Kurt Vonnegut

"The principal practice is Guruyoga. But we need to understand that any secondary practice combined with Guruyoga becomes a principal practice." ChNNR (Teachings on Thun and Ganapuja)

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Malcolm
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Re: How do Lay People Become Khenpos?

Post by Malcolm » Fri Dec 08, 2017 3:07 pm

Motova wrote:
Fri Dec 08, 2017 1:05 am
What does one have to memorize?

What texts does one need to be familiar with?

What tasks does one have to complete?

Thank you.
The term khenpo (upādhyāya) actually refers to someone who can ordain monks.

Westerners have misunderstood the term to mean "professor."

A lay teacher is technically slop dpon, not a mkhan po. Some people who have graduated from shedras, monastic colleges, have kept the title, even though when they gave up their monastic vows the title no longer accurately applies.
Buddhahood in This Life
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


[A]nything at all that is well spoken is the word of the Buddha.

-- Ārya-adhyāśaya-sañcodana-nāma-mahāyāna-sūtra

The different sūtras in accord with the emptiness
taught by the Sugata are definitive in meaning;
One can understand that all of those Dharmas in
which a sentient being, individual, or person are taught are provisional in meaning.

-- Samadhirāja Sūtra

Motova
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Re: How do Lay People Become Khenpos?

Post by Motova » Fri Dec 08, 2017 3:11 pm

Thank you.

So lay people can't become or be Khenpos.

How does one become a Loppon?
Motova wrote:
Fri Dec 08, 2017 1:05 am
What does one have to memorize?

What texts does one need to be familiar with?

What tasks does one have to complete?

Thank you.
Malcolm wrote:
Fri Jan 24, 2014 3:58 pm
The four means of converting beings to the Dharma are generosity (which itself as four aspects: giving material gifts, conferring fearlessness, loving kindness and teaching Dharma), pleasant speech, conduct and setting an example.

User avatar
heart
Posts: 4357
Joined: Fri Jan 08, 2010 1:55 pm

Re: How do Lay People Become Khenpos?

Post by heart » Fri Dec 08, 2017 3:15 pm

Motova wrote:
Fri Dec 08, 2017 2:49 pm
Motova wrote:
Fri Dec 08, 2017 1:05 am
What does one have to memorize?

What texts does one need to be familiar with?

What tasks does one have to complete?

Thank you.
:focus:
The texts you have to study and know will change from monastery to monastery. For example:

http://www.drepunggomang.org/curriculum
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geshe
https://www.namgyalmonastery.org/the-cu ... hilosophy/
http://www.khenposodargye.org/2013/03/i ... institute/

This is what I find right now. Anyway, there is at least one Western guy (I think) that have the Khenpo title from his studies at Ka-Nying monastery at least one that never took the public examination but that successfully finished the studies.

/magnus
"We are all here to help each other go through this thing, whatever it is."
~Kurt Vonnegut

"The principal practice is Guruyoga. But we need to understand that any secondary practice combined with Guruyoga becomes a principal practice." ChNNR (Teachings on Thun and Ganapuja)

Motova
Posts: 1045
Joined: Sun Sep 16, 2012 11:05 pm

Re: How do Lay People Become Khenpos?

Post by Motova » Fri Dec 08, 2017 3:23 pm

heart wrote:
Fri Dec 08, 2017 3:15 pm
Motova wrote:
Fri Dec 08, 2017 2:49 pm
Motova wrote:
Fri Dec 08, 2017 1:05 am
What does one have to memorize?

What texts does one need to be familiar with?

What tasks does one have to complete?

Thank you.
:focus:
The texts you have to study and know will change from monastery to monastery. For example:

http://www.drepunggomang.org/curriculum
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geshe
https://www.namgyalmonastery.org/the-cu ... hilosophy/
http://www.khenposodargye.org/2013/03/i ... institute/

This is what I find right now. Anyway, there is at least one Western guy (I think) that have the Khenpo title from his studies at Ka-Nying monastery at least one that never took the public examination but that successfully finished the studies.

/magnus
Thank you.

http://www.khenposodargye.org/2013/03/i ... institute/

"The curriculum at Larung Gar Five Sciences Buddhist Academy includes three parts: Sutrayana, Secret Mantrayana, and common culture. The main courses in Sutrayana involve five major categories of treatise: Vinaya, Hetuvidya, Abhidharmakosa-Sastra, Madhyamika and Prajnaparamita. Secret Mantrayana consists of esoteric shastra, various preliminaries, generation phase, completion phase, the Great Perfection, and pith instruction. Common culture pertains to the science of language, the science of medicine, Tibetan language, etc."
Malcolm wrote:
Fri Jan 24, 2014 3:58 pm
The four means of converting beings to the Dharma are generosity (which itself as four aspects: giving material gifts, conferring fearlessness, loving kindness and teaching Dharma), pleasant speech, conduct and setting an example.

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