What is pure and defiled according to nyingma

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MatthewAngby
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What is pure and defiled according to nyingma

Post by MatthewAngby » Fri Dec 15, 2017 1:07 am

Hello! I’m actually going to ask about the view of “ one taste “ in the vajrayana tradition . Well, I have saw the shurangama sutra and one of its sentences, which confuses me a lot .


“Further in this state of samadhi, the good person sees the disintegration of the form skandha and understands the feeling skandha. In that clear awakening, he experiences an illusory clarity. Within that, suddenly he may veer towards the view of eternal extinction, deny cause and effect, and take everything as empty. The thought of emptiness so predominates that he comes to believe that there is eternal extinction after death.“[This is called ‘the mental state of samadhi dissolving so that one loses sight of what is right.’] If he understands, then there is no error. This experience does not indicate sagehood.

But if he considers himself a sage, then a demon of emptiness will enter his mind. He will slander the holding of precepts, calling it a ‘Small Vehicle Dharma.’ He will say, ‘Since Bodhisattvas have awakened to emptiness, what is there to hold or violate?’ This person, in the presence of his faithful danapatis, will often drink wine, eat meat, and engage in wanton lust. The power of the demon will keep his followers from doubting or denouncing him. After the ghost has possessed him for a long time, he may consume excrement and urine, or meat and wine, claiming that all such things are empty. He will break the Buddha’s moral precepts and mislead people into committing offenses. Lacking proper samadhi, he will certainly fall.”

So my question would be : why, if everything is of one taste, is drinking wine and eating meat not good. What if somebody drinks wine but still retains awareness. The another question is .. is drinking urine and eating excrement and/or eating meat and drinking wine considered impure or defiled in the context of Tantric Buddhism. Please help me as I am really confused right now.

krodha
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Re: What is pure and defiled according to nyingma

Post by krodha » Fri Dec 15, 2017 2:05 am

Drinking wine and eating meat is common place for Nyingmapas. I've encountered complaints from people who attended Nyingma centers that all they did was eat, drink wine and dance, an exaggeration I'm sure.

Consuming excrement etc., is more symbolic and has to do with the slowing down of natural physiological processes, or so I've been told. Yet I'm sure some fool at some point has literally consumed shit.

At any rate, in the context of the Nyingma, the sūtra excerpt you cited would be describing what is called "losing the conduct in the view" which is a nihilistic outlook that nothing matters that results from the mind clinging to ultimate truth.

MatthewAngby
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Re: What is pure and defiled according to nyingma

Post by MatthewAngby » Fri Dec 15, 2017 2:24 am

So this this is my Guess : So everything is of one taste, but we must also take into account the effects it might have on us? Is this what the sutra is trying to say?

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dzogchungpa
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Re: What is pure and defiled according to nyingma

Post by dzogchungpa » Fri Dec 15, 2017 3:24 am

Just as a point of information, the sutra you are quoting is not one that the Tibetan Buddhist schools read.
There is not only nothingness because there is always, and always can manifest. - Thinley Norbu Rinpoche

krodha
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Re: What is pure and defiled according to nyingma

Post by krodha » Fri Dec 15, 2017 8:33 am

MatthewAngby wrote:
Fri Dec 15, 2017 2:24 am
So this this is my Guess : So everything is of one taste, but we must also take into account the effects it might have on us? Is this what the sutra is trying to say?
Only buddhas are free of karmic influence.

For the rest of us, like Guru Rinpoche said, it is important that our conduct and mindfulness of karmic causality are as fine as tsampa, even if our view is as lofty as the sky.

The minute you allow your view to overtake your conduct you err into nihilism.

MatthewAngby
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Re: What is pure and defiled according to nyingma

Post by MatthewAngby » Fri Dec 15, 2017 8:39 am

So it’s still ok to drink alcohol ? Because when I drink, I tend to drink a little , which I think does not make me lose total awareness.

MatthewAngby
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Re: What is pure and defiled according to nyingma

Post by MatthewAngby » Fri Dec 15, 2017 9:49 am

So is it possible To drink wine still if I do not lose total awareness

thecowisflying
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Re: What is pure and defiled according to nyingma

Post by thecowisflying » Fri Dec 15, 2017 10:15 am

dzogchungpa wrote:
Fri Dec 15, 2017 3:24 am
Just as a point of information, the sutra you are quoting is not one that the Tibetan Buddhist schools read.
But the point still stands as I’m guessing Tibetan Buddhism doesn’t teach the nihilism spoken of in this Sutra.

krodha
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Re: What is pure and defiled according to nyingma

Post by krodha » Fri Dec 15, 2017 11:35 pm

MatthewAngby wrote:
Fri Dec 15, 2017 9:49 am
So is it possible To drink wine still if I do not lose total awareness
Yes just be mindful and don't get drunk. I personally don't drink wine at tsog, I just dip a finger and have a drop.

Some siddhas can drink excessively and never become inebriated.

Work with your capacity.

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