View in Mahayoga, Anuyoga and Atiyoga

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fckw
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View in Mahayoga, Anuyoga and Atiyoga

Post by fckw » Sun Dec 17, 2017 1:02 pm

In "The Practice of Dzogchen - Longchen Rabjam's Writings on the Great Perfection" the following is described in the introduction chapter:
However, if you analyze from the standpoint of appearances: according to the view of the glorious Mahayoga tradition, the aspect of appearances is the luminous nature, the relative truth of great purity (dag pa chen po). [According to the view of] Anuyoga, the aspect of appearances is Samantabhadra, the mandala of the three divine seats (gdan gsum). [According to] the view of Atiyoga, [the appearances] are the profound "appearances of the basis" (gzhi snang), the spontaneously accomplished mandala. These views are unknown, even the terms for them being absent, in the characteristics [sutric] yanas. [...]
I do not really understand the point made here regarding the difference between the views for Mahayoga, Anuyoga and Atiyoga - dag pa chen po, gdan gsum and gzhi snang. Can anyone explain the difference in these three views?

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Vasana
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Re: View in Mahayoga, Anuyoga and Atiyoga

Post by Vasana » Sun Dec 17, 2017 1:45 pm

I think this is touched upon in the Supreme Source.
'When alone, watch your mind. When with others, watch your speech'- Old Kadampa saying.

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florin
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Re: View in Mahayoga, Anuyoga and Atiyoga

Post by florin » Sun Dec 17, 2017 3:04 pm

fckw wrote:
Sun Dec 17, 2017 1:02 pm
In "The Practice of Dzogchen - Longchen Rabjam's Writings on the Great Perfection" the following is described in the introduction chapter:
However, if you analyze from the standpoint of appearances: according to the view of the glorious Mahayoga tradition, the aspect of appearances is the luminous nature, the relative truth of great purity (dag pa chen po). [According to the view of] Anuyoga, the aspect of appearances is Samantabhadra, the mandala of the three divine seats (gdan gsum). [According to] the view of Atiyoga, [the appearances] are the profound "appearances of the basis" (gzhi snang), the spontaneously accomplished mandala. These views are unknown, even the terms for them being absent, in the characteristics [sutric] yanas. [...]
I do not really understand the point made here regarding the difference between the views for Mahayoga, Anuyoga and Atiyoga - dag pa chen po, gdan gsum and gzhi snang. Can anyone explain the difference in these three views?
The difference between ati yoga view and the rest of the views is that those other views are based on efforts and using causes to establish the ultimate view whereas ati yoga is immediate and here the appearances of mind are from the very beginning the nature of enlightenment .
"Bow down to me for I thirst for an infinite ocean of blood, since the innumerable torrents of floods at kalpa's end that terrify all world systems do not even wet the tip of my tongue"

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Malcolm
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Re: View in Mahayoga, Anuyoga and Atiyoga

Post by Malcolm » Sun Dec 17, 2017 3:53 pm

Vasana wrote:
Sun Dec 17, 2017 1:45 pm
I think this is touched upon in the Supreme Source.
There is a difference in how appearances are treated in sems sde, klong sde, and man ngag sde. See Treasury of Dharmadhātu.
Buddhahood in This Life
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


[A]nything at all that is well spoken is the word of the Buddha.

-- Ārya-adhyāśaya-sañcodana-nāma-mahāyāna-sūtra

The different sūtras in accord with the emptiness
taught by the Sugata are definitive in meaning;
One can understand that all of those Dharmas in
which a sentient being, individual, or person are taught are provisional in meaning.

-- Samadhirāja Sūtra

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Vasana
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Re: View in Mahayoga, Anuyoga and Atiyoga

Post by Vasana » Sun Dec 17, 2017 4:06 pm

Malcolm wrote:
Sun Dec 17, 2017 3:53 pm
Vasana wrote:
Sun Dec 17, 2017 1:45 pm
I think this is touched upon in the Supreme Source.
There is a difference in how appearances are treated in sems sde, klong sde, and man ngag sde. See Treasury of Dharmadhātu.
Good point. I somehow forgot about that text despite having gone through it more times than the Supreme Source .Longchenpa's Treasure-Trove commentary (Baron) probably covers it.
'When alone, watch your mind. When with others, watch your speech'- Old Kadampa saying.

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Malcolm
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Re: View in Mahayoga, Anuyoga and Atiyoga

Post by Malcolm » Sun Dec 17, 2017 4:27 pm

Vasana wrote:
Sun Dec 17, 2017 4:06 pm
Malcolm wrote:
Sun Dec 17, 2017 3:53 pm
Vasana wrote:
Sun Dec 17, 2017 1:45 pm
I think this is touched upon in the Supreme Source.
There is a difference in how appearances are treated in sems sde, klong sde, and man ngag sde. See Treasury of Dharmadhātu.
Good point. I somehow forgot about that text despite having gone through it more times than the Supreme Source .Longchenpa's Treasure-Trove commentary (Baron) probably covers it.
It does.
Buddhahood in This Life
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


[A]nything at all that is well spoken is the word of the Buddha.

-- Ārya-adhyāśaya-sañcodana-nāma-mahāyāna-sūtra

The different sūtras in accord with the emptiness
taught by the Sugata are definitive in meaning;
One can understand that all of those Dharmas in
which a sentient being, individual, or person are taught are provisional in meaning.

-- Samadhirāja Sūtra

fckw
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Re: View in Mahayoga, Anuyoga and Atiyoga

Post by fckw » Sun Dec 17, 2017 8:25 pm

Are these texts online available? Unfortunately I don’t own neither of them and I don’t want to buy more books just for clarifying one detail unless I can dedicate enough time to really read through them.

Norwegian
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Re: View in Mahayoga, Anuyoga and Atiyoga

Post by Norwegian » Sun Dec 17, 2017 8:35 pm

fckw wrote:
Sun Dec 17, 2017 8:25 pm
Are these texts online available? Unfortunately I don’t own neither of them and I don’t want to buy more books just for clarifying one detail unless I can dedicate enough time to really read through them.
These are published books, so you need to buy them.

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Josef
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Re: View in Mahayoga, Anuyoga and Atiyoga

Post by Josef » Sun Dec 17, 2017 9:08 pm

fckw wrote:
Sun Dec 17, 2017 8:25 pm
Are these texts online available? Unfortunately I don’t own neither of them and I don’t want to buy more books just for clarifying one detail unless I can dedicate enough time to really read through them.
The Treasury of Dharmadhatu and it's autocommentary are pretty essential for Nyingmapa's or anyone who is really interested in understanding these topics.
Kye ma!
The river of continuity is marked by impermanence.
Ceaseless flowing of appearance.
Beautiful and repulsive.
The dance of life and death is a display of the vast expanse.
With gratitude the watcher and the watched pass through the barrier of duality.

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