What it means to be a ngakpa

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MatthewAngby
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What it means to be a ngakpa

Post by MatthewAngby » Mon Jan 15, 2018 4:12 am

As the title says it all - how is being a ngakpa an important significance ? What can the ngakpa do and not do due to the 14 vows? Also is being a ngakpa very hard in the modern world?

Does being a ngakpa make practice easier ?

What if you break the vows, does that make u are destined for hell?
The force is my ally...and a powerful ally it is - Yoda

PeterC
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Re: What it means to be a ngakpa

Post by PeterC » Mon Jan 15, 2018 4:32 am

MatthewAngby wrote:
Mon Jan 15, 2018 4:12 am
As the title says it all - how is being a ngakpa an important significance ? What can the ngakpa do and not do due to the 14 vows? Also is being a ngakpa very hard in the modern world?

Does being a ngakpa make practice easier ?

What if you break the vows, does that make u are destined for hell?
If you've received any HYT empowerment then you have all the same vows as most people who wear striped robes and call themselves ngakpas.

MatthewAngby
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Re: What it means to be a ngakpa

Post by MatthewAngby » Mon Jan 15, 2018 4:42 am

Yes but what I meant was this - why would someone want to be one - does it improve their practice or maybe make it easier? And also does this mean they are restricted from having “ fun “?
The force is my ally...and a powerful ally it is - Yoda

Josef
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Re: What it means to be a ngakpa

Post by Josef » Mon Jan 15, 2018 6:07 am

A lot of people like to play dress up.
Being a ngakpa is a non-monastic yogi who keeps samaya and practices dillingently.
This goes beyond any external appearances. The path of the ngakpa is profound in that it is fully integrated with the world, rather than being cloistered in a monastic setting.
Kye ma!
The river of continuity is marked by impermanence.
Ceaseless flowing of appearance.
Beautiful and repulsive.
The dance of life and death is a display of the vast expanse.
With gratitude the watcher and the watched pass through the barrier of duality.

MatthewAngby
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Re: What it means to be a ngakpa

Post by MatthewAngby » Mon Jan 15, 2018 6:31 am

Josef wrote:
Mon Jan 15, 2018 6:07 am
A lot of people like to play dress up.
Being a ngakpa is a non-monastic yogi who keeps samaya and practices dillingently.
This goes beyond any external appearances. The path of the ngakpa is profound in that it is fully integrated with the world, rather than being cloistered in a monastic setting.
Well does that mean ngakpa cannot have “fun” in the aspect of the modern world and its social values - drinking , making jokes , playing games or watching ... ( you know .. ;) ) .
The force is my ally...and a powerful ally it is - Yoda

Josef
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Re: What it means to be a ngakpa

Post by Josef » Mon Jan 15, 2018 7:14 am

MatthewAngby wrote:
Mon Jan 15, 2018 6:31 am
Josef wrote:
Mon Jan 15, 2018 6:07 am
A lot of people like to play dress up.
Being a ngakpa is a non-monastic yogi who keeps samaya and practices dillingently.
This goes beyond any external appearances. The path of the ngakpa is profound in that it is fully integrated with the world, rather than being cloistered in a monastic setting.
Well does that mean ngakpa cannot have “fun” in the aspect of the modern world and its social values - drinking , making jokes , playing games or watching ... ( you know .. ;) ) .
Not necessarily.
As long as you can engage in those activities with bodhicitta, pure view, etc.
Which is what makes the ngakpa path more difficult.
Drinking or gambling or wanking to porn and throwing on a costume to meditate isn’t really what it means to be a ngakpa.
Kye ma!
The river of continuity is marked by impermanence.
Ceaseless flowing of appearance.
Beautiful and repulsive.
The dance of life and death is a display of the vast expanse.
With gratitude the watcher and the watched pass through the barrier of duality.

MatthewAngby
Posts: 202
Joined: Fri Nov 10, 2017 9:51 am

Re: What it means to be a ngakpa

Post by MatthewAngby » Mon Jan 15, 2018 7:22 am

Josef wrote:
Mon Jan 15, 2018 7:14 am
MatthewAngby wrote:
Mon Jan 15, 2018 6:31 am
Josef wrote:
Mon Jan 15, 2018 6:07 am
A lot of people like to play dress up.
Being a ngakpa is a non-monastic yogi who keeps samaya and practices dillingently.
This goes beyond any external appearances. The path of the ngakpa is profound in that it is fully integrated with the world, rather than being cloistered in a monastic setting.
Well does that mean ngakpa cannot have “fun” in the aspect of the modern world and its social values - drinking , making jokes , playing games or watching ... ( you know .. ;) ) .
Not necessarily.
As long as you can engage in those activities with bodhicitta, pure view, etc.
Which is what makes the ngakpa path more difficult.
Drinking or gambling or wanking to porn and throwing on a costume to meditate isn’t really what it means to be a ngakpa.
Well u know... i drink a little , which does not make me lose total awareness - so that one, is still okay right?

However... watching porn and the like... from young, I already have similar addictions too say - tried to stop, but can’t , like a disease that is stuck with me. I think I will still do it because it is really really really VERY hard for me to stop all this personal sexual activity. So tell me, can someone like me still be a ngakpa if I cannot Control my addiction to porn and sexual activity?
The force is my ally...and a powerful ally it is - Yoda

PeterC
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Re: What it means to be a ngakpa

Post by PeterC » Mon Jan 15, 2018 8:04 am

MatthewAngby wrote:
Mon Jan 15, 2018 4:42 am
Yes but what I meant was this - why would someone want to be one - does it improve their practice or maybe make it easier? And also does this mean they are restricted from having “ fun “?
By "want to be one" you mean, "want to receive an HYT empowerment"? Presumably because that person wants to practice the Vajrayana.

If you want to "become" a ngakpa, then just receive any empowerment and you are a lay yogi with the 14 or 3+25 vows. Easy to do, and as Josef says, a very profound path. If you just want to wear special robes, you can do that without taking any empowerments. And if you don't want to change your behaviour in any way, I'd recommend not receiving an empowerment at all - that way you avoid breaking samaya, and you can still wear whatever clothes you like.

tingdzin
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Re: What it means to be a ngakpa

Post by tingdzin » Mon Jan 15, 2018 8:08 am

Why is the name "ngakpa" important to you?

You can control your cravings, or at least limit them, if you really want to. Being blown like a leaf in the wind by one's lust is really not the purpose of being a ngakpa. Apart from the sexual aspects, spending too much time in an artificial world of any kind, be it porn or soap operas or TV sports or political blogs, does not really jibe with the desire to realize the teachings of the ngakpas.

MatthewAngby
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Re: What it means to be a ngakpa

Post by MatthewAngby » Mon Jan 15, 2018 8:14 am

tingdzin wrote:
Mon Jan 15, 2018 8:08 am
Why is the name "ngakpa" important to you?

You can control your cravings, or at least limit them, if you really want to. Being blown like a leaf in the wind by one's lust is really not the purpose of being a ngakpa. Apart from the sexual aspects, spending too much time in an artificial world of any kind, be it porn or soap operas or TV sports or political blogs, does not really jibe with the desire to realize the teachings of the ngakpas.
I just am curious if being a ngakpa, does one receive any specific “ngakpa” practice ?
The force is my ally...and a powerful ally it is - Yoda

PeterC
Posts: 220
Joined: Tue May 20, 2014 12:38 pm

Re: What it means to be a ngakpa

Post by PeterC » Mon Jan 15, 2018 8:22 am

MatthewAngby wrote:
Mon Jan 15, 2018 8:14 am
tingdzin wrote:
Mon Jan 15, 2018 8:08 am
Why is the name "ngakpa" important to you?

You can control your cravings, or at least limit them, if you really want to. Being blown like a leaf in the wind by one's lust is really not the purpose of being a ngakpa. Apart from the sexual aspects, spending too much time in an artificial world of any kind, be it porn or soap operas or TV sports or political blogs, does not really jibe with the desire to realize the teachings of the ngakpas.
I just am curious if being a ngakpa, does one receive any specific “ngakpa” practice ?
The first rule of ngakpa club is you do not talk about ngakpa club.

tingdzin
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Re: What it means to be a ngakpa

Post by tingdzin » Mon Jan 15, 2018 8:25 am

One of my teachers was firm on the idea that being a ngakpa meant observing all the vows strictly and wearing the robes constantly -- he seemed to think America was not ready for that kind of practitioner yet. Other teachers have other opinions, as you have sen above. A lot of what the Tibetans followed has been watered down as a perhaps necessary compromise with the situation on the ground in the West. As far as specific ngakpa practices, that would be what your teacher advises you to do.

Ditto the final comment in the post immediately above.

MiphamFan
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Re: What it means to be a ngakpa

Post by MiphamFan » Mon Jan 15, 2018 8:30 am

MatthewAngby wrote:
Mon Jan 15, 2018 7:22 am
Josef wrote:
Mon Jan 15, 2018 7:14 am
MatthewAngby wrote:
Mon Jan 15, 2018 6:31 am


Well does that mean ngakpa cannot have “fun” in the aspect of the modern world and its social values - drinking , making jokes , playing games or watching ... ( you know .. ;) ) .
Not necessarily.
As long as you can engage in those activities with bodhicitta, pure view, etc.
Which is what makes the ngakpa path more difficult.
Drinking or gambling or wanking to porn and throwing on a costume to meditate isn’t really what it means to be a ngakpa.
Well u know... i drink a little , which does not make me lose total awareness - so that one, is still okay right?

However... watching porn and the like... from young, I already have similar addictions too say - tried to stop, but can’t , like a disease that is stuck with me. I think I will still do it because it is really really really VERY hard for me to stop all this personal sexual activity. So tell me, can someone like me still be a ngakpa if I cannot Control my addiction to porn and sexual activity?
Ask yourself if you would follow a guru who is addicted to porn.

MatthewAngby
Posts: 202
Joined: Fri Nov 10, 2017 9:51 am

Re: What it means to be a ngakpa

Post by MatthewAngby » Mon Jan 15, 2018 8:52 am

MiphamFan wrote:
Mon Jan 15, 2018 8:30 am
MatthewAngby wrote:
Mon Jan 15, 2018 7:22 am
Josef wrote:
Mon Jan 15, 2018 7:14 am


Not necessarily.
As long as you can engage in those activities with bodhicitta, pure view, etc.
Which is what makes the ngakpa path more difficult.
Drinking or gambling or wanking to porn and throwing on a costume to meditate isn’t really what it means to be a ngakpa.
Well u know... i drink a little , which does not make me lose total awareness - so that one, is still okay right?

However... watching porn and the like... from young, I already have similar addictions too say - tried to stop, but can’t , like a disease that is stuck with me. I think I will still do it because it is really really really VERY hard for me to stop all this personal sexual activity. So tell me, can someone like me still be a ngakpa if I cannot Control my addiction to porn and sexual activity?
Ask yourself if you would follow a guru who is addicted to porn.
Hmm... but how can I stop it? I tried ways to defeat this lust but it keeps coming back. Do you have any ways to counter such thoughts and inclinations ?
The force is my ally...and a powerful ally it is - Yoda

Soma999
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Re: What it means to be a ngakpa

Post by Soma999 » Mon Jan 15, 2018 10:23 am

We all have our demons. We don't become perfect in one instant. Little by little we grow. Don't be hard on yourself. Little by little, we grow.

You know, titles and names and all the stuff, it's not the real things. Some people want to do karate to wear a black belt. Well, you can buy a black belt into any shop, it's easier. And if you want to learn martial arts, the grades, the belt, it does not mean a lot. Either you know how to practice, or you don't.

What is important is to know oneself, and to grow in maturity, in love, in wisdom.

You don't have to stop acting in the world. You are not a monk. Live your life, but live it with consciousness.

Some teachers can help you to grow. You need someone to teach you climbing. You need someone to teach you piano. But for living, we would need no one ?

In fact we need someone : a spiritual teacher, or a guru. But you'd better beware also, because false gurus are many.

Before finding a real guru, maybe you can read the teachings of real gurus. I felt that reading the teaching of Omraam Michael Aivanhov, even thought he is not buddhist, could be of great value for you. And wisdom is universal. Someone wise in a tradition is in fact wise everywhere. If your wisdom relate only to one tradition, and outside of this tradition your wisdom does not apply, well it's not wisdom. Wisdom is linked to life, and is universal.

Why do i advise this teaching for you ? Because this teaching is totally directed toward the idea to integrate spirituality in your life. And nothing is neglected. It speaks about sexuality, relationship, transformation of our darkness, eating, contemplating... everything is covered, and always linked with the idea to grow and mature, to increase love, joy and consciousness. It's full of wisdom.

Technics without philosophy is just a waste of time. And powerful technics without philosophy a danger.

Before doing technics, learn some good attitude, good philosophy, transform yourself, and i can tell you then, any technics you will learn, from whichever tradition, will bear fruits and blessings.

What i think is that you need guidance, and that's the best advice i can give you.

dzoki
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Re: What it means to be a ngakpa

Post by dzoki » Mon Jan 15, 2018 10:27 am

When you just recieved an empowerment, you are not yet a real ngagpa, you are what they call ngagchung - "a small ngagpa" in other words, ngagpa in training. Then you should as a minimum complete a ngondro, and approach and accomplishment rectitations of sadhanas of the three roots. If you can then manifest signs of succesful practice, such as being able to stop and call forth rain, cure sickness, summon beings etc. than you can be called ngagpa. I heard from one Tibetan, that calling oneself a ngagpa without solid results of practice amounts to the breach of samaya, but I have not seen this in any text, so it might be just an opinion.

Of course this is just one aspect of being ngagpa. As Dudjom Yangsi Rinpoche said, the most important thing for ngagpa is to be a ngagpa in heart - to constantly train in pure vision and bodhicitta. Otherwise even if somebody has powers but has no motivation of bodhicitta and grasps at the reality of things, then he is a mere wizard.

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Grigoris
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Re: What it means to be a ngakpa

Post by Grigoris » Mon Jan 15, 2018 12:29 pm

Actually there are a series of SPECIFIC empowerments and blessings associated with the ngakpa accoutrments: clothing, ritual implements, even the consort.

The teacher then decides how and when one should use these.

For example: our teacher (Loppon Ogyan Tanzin Rinpoche) wants us to wear the zen and lower white "skirt" whenever we are practicing or receiving teachings. He considers us ngakpa from the moment we take the specific empowerments.
Peterc wrote: If you just want to wear special robes, you can do that without taking any empowerments.
Of course you can. You can dress up like clown too if you want to, but the robes are not just another form of attire. They are not a type of cosplay.
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde

Marc
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Re: What it means to be a ngakpa

Post by Marc » Mon Jan 15, 2018 12:34 pm

MatthewAngby wrote:
Mon Jan 15, 2018 8:52 am

Do you have any ways to counter such thoughts and inclinations ?
Buddhadharma ? :tongue:
The purpose of sutrayana is overcoming craving... You will find plenty of tools there to deal with this issue.

As a little warning on the side:
Westerners easily fool themselves with Vajrayana, thinking that it is a "freecard" ton indulges in all their passions and impulses... Being "spontaneous"...

Sure a Ngakpa does not renounce sensual pleasure, but he is definitely not the slave of sensual pleasure, quite the contrary ;-)

You may enjoy the following book:
https://www.amazon.com/Craving-Mind-Cig ... 0300223242

PeterC
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Re: What it means to be a ngakpa

Post by PeterC » Mon Jan 15, 2018 12:49 pm

Grigoris wrote:
Mon Jan 15, 2018 12:29 pm
Actually there are a series of SPECIFIC empowerments and blessings associated with the ngakpa accoutrments: clothing, ritual implements, even the consort.

The teacher then decides how and when one should use these.

For example: our teacher (Loppon Ogyan Tanzin Rinpoche) wants us to wear the zen and lower white "skirt" whenever we are practicing or receiving teachings. He considers us ngakpa from the moment we take the specific empowerments.
Peterc wrote: If you just want to wear special robes, you can do that without taking any empowerments.
Of course you can. You can dress up like clown too if you want to, but the robes are not just another form of attire. They are not a type of cosplay.
You're taking that comment more than a little out of context. I'm quite aware that for certain Dudjom tersar practices these are samaya objects. My point was that for many people these days they are just cosplay, which is silly, and that the OP shouldn't want them for that reason.
Last edited by PeterC on Mon Jan 15, 2018 1:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Miroku
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Re: What it means to be a ngakpa

Post by Miroku » Mon Jan 15, 2018 12:59 pm

MatthewAngby wrote:
Mon Jan 15, 2018 7:22 am
However... watching porn and the like... from young, I already have similar addictions too say - tried to stop, but can’t , like a disease that is stuck with me. I think I will still do it because it is really really really VERY hard for me to stop all this personal sexual activity. So tell me, can someone like me still be a ngakpa if I cannot Control my addiction to porn and sexual activity?
If you think porn is negative for you then take a vow and observe it. For just a day say I wont watch it today. Train like that and slowly extend the periods without porn until you take a vow you won't watch it again.
Child, if you are not hypocritical and out of control, that is conduct.
~ Padampa Sangye

You say such clever things to people, but you do not apply them to yourself.
The faults within you are the ones to be exposed.
~ Padampa Sangye

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