You need to be able to make a valid cognition.dzogchungpa wrote: ↑Sat Jan 20, 2018 4:47 pm
I dig. Maybe I'll give that Pema Khandro Rinpoche another chance!
Kevin
You need to be able to make a valid cognition.dzogchungpa wrote: ↑Sat Jan 20, 2018 4:47 pm
I dig. Maybe I'll give that Pema Khandro Rinpoche another chance!
Well, I don't want to take sides in this discussion and also not their tantric terma teachings. However, there are certainly some very unusual, let's call them, interpretations of Dzogchen teachings that in my eyes are so far off, that I would no longer consider them Buddha-dharma. Take this for example:Malcolm wrote: ↑Thu Jan 18, 2018 9:47 pm How do you know his termas are fake? What is your basis for such an evaluation? Are they inconsistent with the meaning of the Dharma in general? Is there some teaching within them that contradicts Buddhadharma specifically? If yes, what specifically? If no, then what is the problem?
Seriously? Viewing one's lover mengakde style? What sort of Dzogchen teaching is this supposed to be, and what is it supposed to mean? Don't get me wrong: There MIGHT potentially be value in such a teaching or view or practice or whatever it is, but in my eyes it just cannot be rightfully called Dzogchen anymore.https://approachingaro.org/romance wrote: Dzogchen men-ngak-dé is largely concerned with practices of “viewing as.” the Aro gTér teaches “viewing one’s lover as a Buddha” in men-ngak-dé style.
There is no doubt about Sogyals lineage. His teachers publically endorsed him as a teacher when he started out. I was personally present when Dudjom Rinpoche praised him and his teachings to the skies.Miroku wrote: ↑Sat Jan 20, 2018 3:49 pm I am quite confused. When it came to Sogyal, people claimed how important it is to have qualified guru. And now we are claiming that Aro can be valid just because the students believe it? Well students believe in Sogjal's innocence, people believe that homeopatics are real medicine.
But seriously it isn't so hard, why not just check on their lineage, whether those two have real masters to get the teachings from and etc. Why suddenly are we supposed to say something is valid because somebody believes it to be valid? Yes I get it validity of ChNN's Longsal teachings is also a matter of believe, but lets face it ChNN has credible lineage and etc and most importantly he is qualified.
So don't practice it..fckw wrote: ↑Sat Jan 20, 2018 4:53 pmWell, I don't want to take sides in this discussion and also not their tantric terma teachings. However, there are certainly some very unusual, let's call them, interpretations of Dzogchen teachings that in my eyes are so far off, that I would no longer consider them Buddha-dharma. Take this for example:Malcolm wrote: ↑Thu Jan 18, 2018 9:47 pm How do you know his termas are fake? What is your basis for such an evaluation? Are they inconsistent with the meaning of the Dharma in general? Is there some teaching within them that contradicts Buddhadharma specifically? If yes, what specifically? If no, then what is the problem?Seriously? Viewing one's lover mengakde style? What sort of Dzogchen teaching is this supposed to be, and what is it supposed to mean? Don't get me wrong: There MIGHT potentially be value in such a teaching or view or practice or whatever it is, but in my eyes it just cannot be rightfully called Dzogchen anymore.https://approachingaro.org/romance wrote: Dzogchen men-ngak-dé is largely concerned with practices of “viewing as.” the Aro gTér teaches “viewing one’s lover as a Buddha” in men-ngak-dé style.
That is totally your prerogative.fckw wrote: ↑Sat Jan 20, 2018 4:53 pmWell, I don't want to take sides in this discussion and also not their tantric terma teachings. However, there are certainly some very unusual, let's call them, interpretations of Dzogchen teachings that in my eyes are so far off, that I would no longer consider them Buddha-dharma.Malcolm wrote: ↑Thu Jan 18, 2018 9:47 pm How do you know his termas are fake? What is your basis for such an evaluation? Are they inconsistent with the meaning of the Dharma in general? Is there some teaching within them that contradicts Buddhadharma specifically? If yes, what specifically? If no, then what is the problem?
Again, that is your "valid knowledge" with your "adamantine scripture" to support it.Take this for example:Seriously? Viewing one's lover mengakde style? What sort of Dzogchen teaching is this supposed to be, and what is it supposed to mean? Don't get me wrong: There MIGHT potentially be value in such a teaching or view or practice or whatever it is, but in my eyes it just cannot be rightfully called Dzogchen anymore.https://approachingaro.org/romance wrote: Dzogchen men-ngak-dé is largely concerned with practices of “viewing as.” the Aro gTér teaches “viewing one’s lover as a Buddha” in men-ngak-dé style.
This is why The Madman's Middle Way should be required reading in all Dharma centers and for all Tibetan Buddhists. It has been my constant companion for more than a decade. Read carefully, it really should put an end to the "authenticity wars" in Tibetan Buddhism. In short, everything is just based on our own damn opinion.
You claiming that it cant rightfully be called Dzogchen kind of led me there.
Malcolm wrote: ↑Sat Jan 20, 2018 5:02 pmThis is why The Madman's Middle Way should be required reading in all Dharma centers and for all Tibetan Buddhists. It has been my constant companion for more than a decade. Read carefully, it really should put an end to the "authenticity wars" in Tibetan Buddhism. In short, everything is just based on our own damn opinion.
Some Buddhists also considers that the Buddha never even existed in the first place, and spends their entire lives creating very elaborate intellectual exercises that pleases no-one but themselves and themselves alone. Who cares?
Malcolm wrote: ↑Sat Jan 20, 2018 4:51 pmdzogchungpa wrote: ↑Sat Jan 20, 2018 4:47 pm I dig. Maybe I'll give that Pema Khandro Rinpoche another chance!
Feel free. At least she has taken the pains to acquire a solid academic foundation in Buddhist Studies —— that is always encouraging.
When we harbor suspicions about all these fruiting bodies sprouting from invisible rhizomes in the field of Buddhism, the first point is "who the frack are they kidding." But if in the end they harm no one, do not sexually harass, emotionally or financially abuse their students, well, in reality, who are we to criticize them?
So as I said, if you want to be in insect for her, go right ahead.
Just found out that she studies at the Ka-Nying Shedra in Kathmandu right now from a friend that also is there.Malcolm wrote: ↑Sat Jan 20, 2018 4:51 pmFeel free. At least she has taken the pains to acquire a solid academic foundation in Buddhist Studies —— that is always encouraging.dzogchungpa wrote: ↑Sat Jan 20, 2018 4:47 pm I dig. Maybe I'll give that Pema Khandro Rinpoche another chance!
Goodness me.heart wrote: ↑Sat Jan 20, 2018 5:23 pmJust found out that she studies at the Ka-Nying Shedra in Kathmandu right now from a friend that also is there.Malcolm wrote: ↑Sat Jan 20, 2018 4:51 pmFeel free. At least she has taken the pains to acquire a solid academic foundation in Buddhist Studies —— that is always encouraging.dzogchungpa wrote: ↑Sat Jan 20, 2018 4:47 pm I dig. Maybe I'll give that Pema Khandro Rinpoche another chance!
/magnus
I haven't really expressed any opinions in this thread, I leave the knee-jerks to the English and Greek battle.Simon E. wrote: ↑Sat Jan 20, 2018 5:30 pmGoodness me.
You mean another knee-jerk reaction to another frequently dismissed teacher might turn out to be just received opinion?
methar wrote: ↑Sat Jan 20, 2018 5:37 pm Simon E. wrote
"Sorry, not interested in scary stories, woo-woo capitalisation and slippery slope fallacies..
My advice would be in good fath and based on the visible and obvious fruits of the practices of the Aro students I have met.
How about KARMA Simon E?
"My advice would be in good faith" but not "good FACT".
Check out the "Gelug" form under "Norbu House".
Read about the former monk who spent years following a totally FAKE LAMA.
When he was still a monk he and other followers would have told you that this Lama and her Tulku lineage was totally legit.
He and his fellow monks, nuns and lay followers would have total you all these great stories about their beloved "Domo Geshe Rinpoche".
Simon E stated, "based on the visible and obvious fruits of the practices of the Aro students I have met'.
Now he and other ex monks and nuns and followers must pick up the pieces of their shatter lives.
What about the people who still follow this FAKE TULKU?
What will their KARMA be in this life and their NEXT?
What will your KARMA be Simon E for your advice about Aro?
"Sorry, not interested in scary stories...", maybe you should be!!!
It is brilliant. And it’s easy to see why the Gelugpas had such a difficult time with him. He is the absolute master of reductio ad absurdum.Malcolm wrote: ↑Sat Jan 20, 2018 5:04 pmMalcolm wrote: ↑Sat Jan 20, 2018 5:02 pmThis is why The Madman's Middle Way should be required reading in all Dharma centers and for all Tibetan Buddhists. It has been my constant companion for more than a decade. Read carefully, it really should put an end to the "authenticity wars" in Tibetan Buddhism. In short, everything is just based on our own damn opinion.
Actually, it should be required reading for all Buddhists in every school.