Grigoris wrote: ↑Wed Jan 24, 2018 8:43 am
Malcolm wrote: ↑Tue Jan 23, 2018 7:16 pmThe Buddha when referred to prior to his awakening is called the Bodhisattva in Hinayāna texts.
Are you repeating my point for your sake or for mine?
In the Bhayabherava Sutta Buddha mentions that he recalled his myriad pasts lives, who he was, what his name was an so on during the first watch of the night of his awakening, prior to gaining awakening. You really think during that time he did not recall teachings he received from Buddhas in the past?
Ummmmm... We are not discussing the Bhayabherava Sutta (MN 4), we are discussing SN 12.65. Regardless of this fact, in MN 4 it is still not 100% clear whether he is referring to realisations arising during his life as a Bodhisattva in his last life (but prior to his enlightenment during his last life) or in a previous life.
Yes, it is. It refers to Udraka Rāmaputra and Ālāra Kalama.
Like I said: unlike Mahayana where the Buddha was already a Buddha before his appearance in this world, in Theravada he was a Bodhisattva up until the point where he sat under the bodhi tree and achieved enlightenment (but now I am repeating myself).
Yes, this is well known.
He does mention recollection of his past lives in MN 4, but he makes no mention of his knowledge arising from teachings he received from other Buddhas. So I fail to see why you mention the particular Sutta as it is not really evidence against the notion that Dharma is eternal ie it does not contradict my interpretation of SN 12.65.
Eternal things do not disappear, but conditioned things with parts, for example, the Dharma, do:
"That's the way it is, Kassapa. When beings are degenerating and the true Dhamma is disappearing, there are more training rules and yet fewer monks established in final gnosis. There is no disappearance of the true Dhamma as long as a counterfeit of the true Dhamma has not arisen in the world, but there is the disappearance of the true Dhamma when a counterfeit of the true Dhamma has arisen in the world. Just as there is no disappearance of gold as long as a counterfeit of gold has not arisen in the world, but there is the disappearance of gold when a counterfeit of gold has arisen in the world, in the same way there is no disappearance of the true Dhamma as long as a counterfeit of the true Dhamma has not arisen in the world, but there is the disappearance of the true Dhamma when a counterfeit of the true Dhamma has arisen in the world
https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitak ... .than.html
There are many things which lead to the perishing of the Dharma, Christopher Titmus lists a number of sources concerning this here:
https://www.christophertitmussblog.org/ ... the-buddha
Dependent origination is simply, Where is arose, that arose; with the arising of that, this arises." If you assert the Dharma is dependent origination, then you will are asserting a impermanent, conditioned thing as the Dharma in contradiction to your claim. I am happy to accept that teachings on dependent origination are the Dharma, since the Buddha said, "Whoever sees dependent origination sees the Dharma, whoever sees the Dharma sees dependent origination." [M.I.190] But if you claim the Dharma is eternal, you will claim that dependent origination is eternal.
Likewise, at S.III.120, the Buddha says, "Whoever sees the Dharma sees the Buddha, whoever sees the Buddha sees the Dharma." Clearly, the Buddha is not eternal according to these sources, so claiming based on Pali sources that the Dharma or the Buddha is eternal is not going to fly.
Beyond that, only two kinds of Dharma are defined the texts we have-- scripture and realization. Since texts and oral traditions vanish, and realized people die; both are impermanent. Thus, defining a third Dharma which is permanent or eternal is novel and without textual basis.
