The Aro Authenticity Debate.

Sennin
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Re: The Aro Authenticity Debate.

Post by Sennin » Sun Jan 28, 2018 1:58 am

Tenma wrote:
Sat Jan 27, 2018 11:06 pm

Dahomey of West Africa did human sacrifices, but for kings and queens' funerals, not for some black magic. Also, Vodun originates from West Africa by slaves who then mixed it with Christianity in order to keep their African customs(African gods disguised as saints, Erzuli becoming Black Virgin Mary). So yes, West Africa did human sacrifice, but not in a Western sense nor for spirits, but rather for funerals. Same with Zulus of South Africa(we saw what happened with many cows and humans when Shaka Zulu's mom died...). Even Egyptians practiced human sacrifices(or at least earlier times for dead pharaohs until around late Old and early Middle Kingdom). Vodun is simply an effort to protect African traditions. Not some black magic belief to kill someone or whatever.

I'll ask my aunt about that she is close to Mama Zogbe who is head mamaissii of the amenganaise and mami wata line. I have never heard about human sacrafice in afa vodoun :shrug:
Also I'm sure vodoun originated millenniums before the slave trade. The diaspora did synchronize though. As seen here they did synchronize dattatreya, there are also very curious buddha statues withing the shrines.
108.jpg
108.jpg (24.95 KiB) Viewed 1007 times
Actually i'm not sure how this relates to the original topic at all, i'm totally :offtopic:
Go no paradigm! ;)

climb-up
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Re: The Aro Authenticity Debate.

Post by climb-up » Sun Jan 28, 2018 2:44 am

KrisW wrote:
Sun Jan 28, 2018 1:58 am

I'll ask my aunt about that she is close to Mama Zogbe who is head mamaissii of the amenganaise and mami wata line. I have never heard about human sacrafice in afa vodoun :shrug:
Also I'm sure vodoun originated millenniums before the slave trade. The diaspora did synchronize though. As seen here they did synchronize dattatreya, there are also very curious buddha statues withing the shrines.
108.jpg

Actually i'm not sure how this relates to the original topic at all, i'm totally :offtopic:
I have never heard (legitimate) stories about human sacrifice in Vodoun.
They do practice animal sacrifice, but I don't think anyone who eats meet has a moral leg to stand on against that (especially if they eat factory farmed meat!).

I could be wrong about this, but while Hatian vodoun is rooted deeply in African traditions, I think it is separate. The Petro Loa do not (I believe) exist in Africa and were called forth to overthrow the colonial powers (...successfully!).

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dzogchungpa
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Re: The Aro Authenticity Debate.

Post by dzogchungpa » Sun Jan 28, 2018 3:50 am

KrisW wrote:
Sun Jan 28, 2018 1:58 am
I'll ask my aunt about that she is close to Mama Zogbe who is head mamaissii of the amenganaise and mami wata line. I have never heard about human sacrafice in afa vodoun :shrug:
Also I'm sure vodoun originated millenniums before the slave trade. The diaspora did synchronize though. As seen here they did synchronize dattatreya, there are also very curious buddha statues withing the shrines.
Image

That is really interesting, I had no idea that there was a connection between Mami Wata and Dattatreya. I guess he has become identified with her consort Denzu.



Actually i'm not sure how this relates to the original topic at all, i'm totally :offtopic:

Well, there is some, admittedly tenuous, connection as Doc Togden has been known to refer to Papa Legba from time to time.
Not to mention that I reported a pure vision of Mami Wata earlier in the thread. :smile:
There is not only nothingness because there is always, and always can manifest. - Thinley Norbu Rinpoche

Tenma
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Re: The Aro Authenticity Debate.

Post by Tenma » Sun Jan 28, 2018 6:17 am

KrisW wrote:
Sun Jan 28, 2018 1:58 am
Tenma wrote:
Sat Jan 27, 2018 11:06 pm

Dahomey of West Africa did human sacrifices, but for kings and queens' funerals, not for some black magic. Also, Vodun originates from West Africa by slaves who then mixed it with Christianity in order to keep their African customs(African gods disguised as saints, Erzuli becoming Black Virgin Mary). So yes, West Africa did human sacrifice, but not in a Western sense nor for spirits, but rather for funerals. Same with Zulus of South Africa(we saw what happened with many cows and humans when Shaka Zulu's mom died...). Even Egyptians practiced human sacrifices(or at least earlier times for dead pharaohs until around late Old and early Middle Kingdom). Vodun is simply an effort to protect African traditions. Not some black magic belief to kill someone or whatever.

I'll ask my aunt about that she is close to Mama Zogbe who is head mamaissii of the amenganaise and mami wata line. I have never heard about human sacrafice in afa vodoun :shrug:
Also I'm sure vodoun originated millenniums before the slave trade. The diaspora did synchronize though. As seen here they did synchronize dattatreya, there are also very curious buddha statues withing the shrines.
108.jpg

Actually i'm not sure how this relates to the original topic at all, i'm totally :offtopic:
Good point. Though I mean as in American Vodun. African Vodun is WAY more traditional.
I've never seen a Voodoo deity so similar to a Hindu deity. Interesting...
Perhaps Mami Wata is some naga mother goddess(or perhaps even Manasa herself) and Dambhalla is perhaps Lutsen Ngardrag Dingwa(or some naga king).

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Karma Dorje
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Re: The Aro Authenticity Debate.

Post by Karma Dorje » Sun Jan 28, 2018 7:43 am

KrisW wrote:
Sat Jan 27, 2018 11:34 pm
Grigoris wrote:
Sat Jan 27, 2018 11:21 pm
KrisW wrote:
Sat Jan 27, 2018 10:27 pm
I am trying to figure out where they are doing these human sacrifices :?

are they from central or west Africa?
Central West Africa, as opposed to Far West. :smile:
Just looked around a bit. Those "witch doctors" are sick.
:cry: :cry: :cry:
For those of us who have teenagers, can you clarify that please? Is that derogatory or superlative?
"Although my view is higher than the sky, My respect for the cause and effect of actions is as fine as grains of flour."
-Padmasambhava

climb-up
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Re: The Aro Authenticity Debate.

Post by climb-up » Sun Jan 28, 2018 8:46 am

Karma Dorje wrote:
Sun Jan 28, 2018 7:43 am
KrisW wrote:
Sat Jan 27, 2018 11:34 pm
Grigoris wrote:
Sat Jan 27, 2018 11:21 pm
Central West Africa, as opposed to Far West. :smile:
Just looked around a bit. Those "witch doctors" are sick.
:cry: :cry: :cry:
For those of us who have teenagers, can you clarify that please? Is that derogatory or superlative?
lol!
Based on the context and the sad faces I'm thinking it's being used derogatorily in this case.

Yeti
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Re: The Aro Authenticity Debate.

Post by Yeti » Wed Feb 07, 2018 9:05 am

I've looked through these pages, and what surprises me is that no one has referenced or used the criteria expressed in "Hidden Teachings of Tibet: an explanation of the Terma tradition of Tibetan Buddhism" / Tulku Thondup Rinpoche. Maybe I'm completely missing the point.

Also, in that text, I forget where, there is reference to a "Dharma Holder" or something similar. This is someone who has a certain level of practice, who the terton gives the empowerment of the terma to, who then has to do the practice to 1) confirm it is an authentic terma 2) gain the signs of accomplishment to show that that terma is right for the sentient beings of this time. Then the Dharma Holder has to them give the empowerment back to the terton to fulfill the blessings or authenticity for it to be given to others.

I heard this has happened in the case of many tertons, they test each others termas like this.

Now I have also heard it said, by what I consider a very traditional and authentic source, that termas or pure visions can appear in anyone's mind. The criteria they must meet is that the revealer must be able to transmit that to others, and that the practice of those terma should lead to signs of accomplishment and liberation.

Traditionally, those who are the heart holders and students of such termas keep track and verify those who show the signs of accomplishment as they pass.
"When a Dzogchen Yogi hears Shakyamuni Buddha turning the Wheel of the Dharma of the Four Noble Truths he hears Samathabhadra proclaiming the most profound Dzogpachenpo." - Nyoshul Khen Rinpoche

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dzogchungpa
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Re: The Aro Authenticity Debate.

Post by dzogchungpa » Fri May 11, 2018 8:13 pm

There is not only nothingness because there is always, and always can manifest. - Thinley Norbu Rinpoche

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Tiago Simões
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Re: The Aro Authenticity Debate.

Post by Tiago Simões » Fri May 11, 2018 9:42 pm

dzogchungpa wrote:
Fri May 11, 2018 8:13 pm
An interview with the man:
http://www.guruviking.com/guru-viking-i ... a-chogyam/
He sounds quite alright.

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dzogchungpa
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Re: The Aro Authenticity Debate.

Post by dzogchungpa » Fri May 11, 2018 10:00 pm

Tiago Simões wrote:
Fri May 11, 2018 9:42 pm
dzogchungpa wrote:
Fri May 11, 2018 8:13 pm
An interview with the man:
http://www.guruviking.com/guru-viking-i ... a-chogyam/
He sounds quite alright.

I haven't listened to it yet, but I will report back when I do.
There is not only nothingness because there is always, and always can manifest. - Thinley Norbu Rinpoche

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