Khandro Thugtig preliminaries - confused!

Post Reply
User avatar
Lingpupa
Posts: 214
Joined: Tue Jul 05, 2011 10:13 am

Khandro Thugtig preliminaries - confused!

Post by Lingpupa » Thu Feb 22, 2018 10:27 am

I have text for preliminaries for Khandro Thugtig, along with some instructions, which I have done from time to time for some years. The two are consistent, though it appears that the actual liturgy was written by Chatral Rinpoche and the instructional text by Dudjom Rinpoche.

I have just been reading the Torch Lighting the Way to Freedom (highly recommended), being complete instructions on the preliminary practices by the said Dudjom Rinpoche. The liturgy is a bit longer, but having a different author it is no surprise that there is little difference there. But what confuses me is this:

In the first text I mentioned, the Lama is visualised as dark blue Dorje Chang with consort for both the refuge and the mandala offering, and as a red version of the same for the guru yoga. In the second version, the Lama appears as a young Nangsid Zilnön in the first practice and as Pema Jungne (iirc) in the guru yoga.

Can anybody unravel this for me? Can they be considered merely as variations of the same practice? Although the liturgy is by no means identical, it is, in broad terms, very similar in both cases.
All the best
Alex Wilding
Stupa in the Snow blog at http://chagchen.org/

Dharmasagara
Posts: 17
Joined: Wed Aug 14, 2013 11:00 am
Location: Europe

Re: Khandro Thugtig preliminaries - confused!

Post by Dharmasagara » Thu Feb 22, 2018 4:00 pm

Hi Lingpupa,
that is an easy one to answer. The two ngöndros simply refer to two different lines of transmission.

The Torch Lightening the Way to Freedom (indeed, the book leaves me spell-bound, each time I open it), is the commentary to the preliminaries of the so called Khandro Nyingthig cycle of Düdjom Linpa, a terma cycle spanning several volumes of his collected works with an astonishing number of different practices for all the three roots plus protectors. (Ok, the ngöndro text itself is also augmented by Düdjom Rinpoche with some instructions and recitation texts to fill a few gaps in the original terma). That's why you will find all the lineage from Küntuzangpo over Düdjom Lingpa to Düdjom Rinpoche's own root teacher Gyumre Ngedön Wangpo. Phurba is the central deity of the yidam branch. As far as I see it, this Ngöndro is thought to be the main ngöndro of the Düdjom Lineage - albeit the much shorter Tersar Ngöndro seems much more common around folks nowadays for its brevity of recitation.

Now, the Khandro Thugthig cycle is Düdjom Rinpoche own terma (mind terma around 1934). Please note that though nyingthig and thugthig mean the same thing in Tibetan (heart essence), these are two different practice cycles. It centers around a sadhana cycle focusing on Yeshe Tsogyal with Guru Rinpoche seated above the crown of her head as a red buddha. And the ngöndro helps you to get acquainted with that main visualization before you get started with the sadhana practice.

And yes, ngöndro liturgies tend to be very similar in most aspects - even if you were to move further away to other lineages. Maybe it would be fitting to say that it is those named small differences and details which produce the identification and devotion for the specific lineage in question.

Hope those few remarks are of some help.

User avatar
Lingpupa
Posts: 214
Joined: Tue Jul 05, 2011 10:13 am

Re: Khandro Thugtig preliminaries - confused!

Post by Lingpupa » Thu Feb 22, 2018 4:15 pm

Dharmasagara wrote:
Thu Feb 22, 2018 4:00 pm
Hope those few remarks are of some help.
Yes they are, thank you. I should have spotted the Nyingthig - Thugtig distinction.
And yes, ngöndro liturgies tend to be very similar in most aspects - even if you were to move further away to other lineages
Yes, I completed the Karma Kamtsang preliminaries some time ago, and sure there is lots in common - as there should be, I think - but the similarities here are even stronger.

But all is clear now - thank you so much!
All the best
Alex Wilding
Stupa in the Snow blog at http://chagchen.org/

User avatar
Sonam Wangchug
Posts: 221
Joined: Sat Feb 06, 2010 8:26 pm

Re: Khandro Thugtig preliminaries - confused!

Post by Sonam Wangchug » Thu Feb 22, 2018 11:38 pm

Greetings Lingpupa, I am not familiar with Kyabje Chadral rinpoche's composition, However, it is mentioned at the end of HH Dudjom rinpoche's composition that there was a previous liturgy, but it being a bit unclear, he composed the one in mention for clarity.

I just wanted to mention if not already something made clear that HH Dudjom rinpoche's Ngondro the lama is also visualized as Orgyen Tsokye dorje chang for the Tun chi ngondro, the preliminary guru yoga preceding the Refuge.

User avatar
Lingpupa
Posts: 214
Joined: Tue Jul 05, 2011 10:13 am

Re: Khandro Thugtig preliminaries - confused!

Post by Lingpupa » Fri Feb 23, 2018 10:02 am

Thanks, Sonam. It may be that's part of the reason I got thrown off - in fact at more than one place there are mentions of one text being a clarification and possibly expansion of another. But I'm sure Dharmasagara's answer is exactly it - the one I've been doing is for Khandro Thugtig, very appropriately as it came to me along with the associated Yeshe Tsogyal practice that D mentions, which is one of my main practices nowadays. The other is for Khandro Nyingtig. All this information was kind of available to me, but the penny hadn't dropped!
All the best
Alex Wilding
Stupa in the Snow blog at http://chagchen.org/

Konchog Tashi
Posts: 5
Joined: Sat Apr 30, 2011 11:59 pm

Re: Khandro Thugtig preliminaries - confused!

Post by Konchog Tashi » Fri Feb 23, 2018 4:07 pm

Slightly off topic, but has anyone noticed that Dudjom Rinpoche's commentary on the mandala offering in this text is almost word for word identical to Jamgon Kongtrul's explanation in The Torch of Certainty?

I am not finding fault anywhere, I have always just been struck by this.

User avatar
Malcolm
Posts: 28243
Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2010 2:19 am

Re: Khandro Thugtig preliminaries - confused!

Post by Malcolm » Fri Feb 23, 2018 4:37 pm

Konchog Tashi wrote:
Fri Feb 23, 2018 4:07 pm
Slightly off topic, but has anyone noticed that Dudjom Rinpoche's commentary on the mandala offering in this text is almost word for word identical to Jamgon Kongtrul's explanation in The Torch of Certainty?

I am not finding fault anywhere, I have always just been struck by this.
Traditionally, plagiarism was not a sin in Tibetan scholarship, not only is it not a sin, but innovation is frowned upon.
Buddhahood in This Life
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


[A]nything at all that is well spoken is the word of the Buddha.

-- Ārya-adhyāśaya-sañcodana-nāma-mahāyāna-sūtra

The different sūtras in accord with the emptiness
taught by the Sugata are definitive in meaning;
One can understand that all of those Dharmas in
which a sentient being, individual, or person are taught are provisional in meaning.

-- Samadhirāja Sūtra

Simon E.
Posts: 5564
Joined: Tue May 15, 2012 11:09 am

Re: Khandro Thugtig preliminaries - confused!

Post by Simon E. » Fri Feb 23, 2018 4:57 pm

It is often a surprise to moderns when they realise that in contrast to their own cultural conditioning, traditional cultures do not value innovation or originality particularly at all.
Rather, they value fidelity, accuracy, continuity.
Taking advantage of a temporary situation. Back for a short time only folks.

Post Reply

Return to “Nyingma”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Baidu [Spider], ppittman, Segatura and 11 guests