Yuthok nyingthik ( your views? )

MatthewAngby
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Yuthok nyingthik ( your views? )

Post by MatthewAngby » Fri Aug 03, 2018 2:39 pm

What is your view of the Yuthok Nyingthik, in terms of its unique style of teachings? ( yes, Dr Nida’s lineage ). And also, how do you guys find Dr Nida’s centres worldwide and his teaching style? I personally like Dr nida’s Way of expressing the teachings, but how do you find the fees his centre charges for some teachings ?

I’ll love to know about you guys’ opinion. :)

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Re: Yuthok nyingthik ( your views? )

Post by WeiHan » Sun Aug 05, 2018 12:39 pm

MatthewAngby wrote:
Fri Aug 03, 2018 2:39 pm
What is your view of the Yuthok Nyingthik, in terms of its unique style of teachings? ( yes, Dr Nida’s lineage ). And also, how do you guys find Dr Nida’s centres worldwide and his teaching style? I personally like Dr nida’s Way of expressing the teachings, but how do you find the fees his centre charges for some teachings ?

I’ll love to know about you guys’ opinion. :)
This type of question. You have to be able to read in between lines..Even legitimate lamas can turn out to be nightmares for some people. Sometimes, even if you ask people or other qualified lamas, people maybe hesitant to criticise bcos the involved lamas have good relationship with them or have a close relationship with a previous great, now deceased, lama etc...This type of question is getting more tricky to answer in this degenerate age. Note that I am not implying anything about Dr. Nida. Just a general comment for you when you are looking around.

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Re: Yuthok nyingthik ( your views? )

Post by Malcolm » Sun Aug 05, 2018 3:06 pm

MatthewAngby wrote:
Fri Aug 03, 2018 2:39 pm


I’ll love to know about you guys’ opinion. :)
It is a cycle principally for doctors of Tibetan Medicine.
Buddhahood in This Life
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


[A]nything at all that is well spoken is the word of the Buddha.

-- Ārya-adhyāśaya-sañcodana-nāma-mahāyāna-sūtra

The different sūtras in accord with the emptiness
taught by the Sugata are definitive in meaning;
One can understand that all of those Dharmas in
which a sentient being, individual, or person are taught are provisional in meaning.

-- Samadhirāja Sūtra

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Re: Yuthok nyingthik ( your views? )

Post by pemachophel » Sun Aug 05, 2018 9:18 pm

Having hosted Dr. Nida two times at our center in Colorado, I can tell you this. His organization, Sorig Khang International, sets the per diem fees. These fees are not particularly high given the travel expenses and the wear and tear of jetting all over the world most of the year. Having once made my living also teaching all over the world, I found them totally reasonable and maybe even cheap. These fees are paid in advance to Sorig Khang International. So these fees are irrespective of how many people finally show up. It is then up to the host or center to decide what they are going to charge and also if they are going to give Dr. Nida directly an additional offering at the end of the program. At the end of programs here, almost everyone gave their own individual offerings at the end as well. The people at Sorig Khang International were quite easy and straight-forward to work with. At this point, they have the drill down.

As Loppon said above, the Yuthok Nyingthig was revealed specifically for practitioners of Tibetan medicine. So you can divide what Dr. Nida teaches into two broad categories: 1) the spiritual practices of the Yuthok Nyingthig and 2) specific healing modalities. Compared to other terma cycles (and especially the way Dr. Nida has abbreviated them a la ChNN), the sadhanas of YN tend to be quite short. The explanation for this is that doctors have to tend to their patients and therefore can't spend months and years in retreat. It is my experience among older Tibetan doctors that many of them had previously practiced some other terma cycle (such as Longchen Nyingthig) before doing the YN and this is what I myself have done. (I don't know about younger Tibetan doctors in a more secularized Tibet.)

If you are a medical practitioner of whatever style or modality and are also a Tibetan Buddhist, practicing the YN allows you to access both the blessings of the YN lineage and some special spiritual healing techniques. YN practitioners believe that the YN blessings are especially quick and potent. The special spiritual healing techniques can be added to whatever one's medical practice is.

If you are not some sort of medical professional or dedicated healer, then, as Loppon has implied, there is maybe less reason to do the YN. In that case, you may be better served by practicing Longchen Nyingthig, Chokling Tersar, Dudjom Tersar, or Jang-ter. You also need to consider Dr. Nida's peripatetic schedule. If you are more interested in the medical side of the YN, that might not be an issue. You are probably used to doing post-graduate education via workshops. If you are more interested in the spiritual side of things, you might consider studying with a Teacher with Whom you can spend more time on a regular basis or Who is really only focused of Buddhist study and practice. However, Dr. Nida's spiritual lineages are authentic and excellent and He has done lots and lots of practice (including Longchen Nyingthig and some Dudjom Tersar).

As far as Dr. Nida's teaching skills, I think they are quite good. I think His English is very good. In my own case, Dr. Nida has been generous in meeting with me outside of class to give me YN lungs/transmissions I have requested.

Hope this gives you a little more information.
Pema Chophel པདྨ་ཆོས་འཕེལ

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Re: Yuthok nyingthik ( your views? )

Post by Johnny Dangerous » Sun Aug 05, 2018 10:39 pm

What sort of "healer" would benefit from YN teachings? Would people in the helping professions (social workers etc.) benefit from receiving such teachings, or is it pretty much exclusively people who make a particular kind of diagnosis and provide a specific intervention?
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Re: Yuthok nyingthik ( your views? )

Post by MatthewAngby » Mon Aug 06, 2018 3:25 am

pemachophel wrote:
Sun Aug 05, 2018 9:18 pm
Having hosted Dr. Nida two times at our center in Colorado, I can tell you this. His organization, Sorig Khang International, sets the per diem fees. These fees are not particularly high given the travel expenses and the wear and tear of jetting all over the world most of the year. Having once made my living also teaching all over the world, I found them totally reasonable and maybe even cheap. These fees are paid in advance to Sorig Khang International. So these fees are irrespective of how many people finally show up. It is then up to the host or center to decide what they are going to charge and also if they are going to give Dr. Nida directly an additional offering at the end of the program. At the end of programs here, almost everyone gave their own individual offerings at the end as well. The people at Sorig Khang International were quite easy and straight-forward to work with. At this point, they have the drill down.

As Loppon said above, the Yuthok Nyingthig was revealed specifically for practitioners of Tibetan medicine. So you can divide what Dr. Nida teaches into two broad categories: 1) the spiritual practices of the Yuthok Nyingthig and 2) specific healing modalities. Compared to other terma cycles (and especially the way Dr. Nida has abbreviated them a la ChNN), the sadhanas of YN tend to be quite short. The explanation for this is that doctors have to tend to their patients and therefore can't spend months and years in retreat. It is my experience among older Tibetan doctors that many of them had previously practiced some other terma cycle (such as Longchen Nyingthig) before doing the YN and this is what I myself have done. (I don't know about younger Tibetan doctors in a more secularized Tibet.)

If you are a medical practitioner of whatever style or modality and are also a Tibetan Buddhist, practicing the YN allows you to access both the blessings of the YN lineage and some special spiritual healing techniques. YN practitioners believe that the YN blessings are especially quick and potent. The special spiritual healing techniques can be added to whatever one's medical practice is.

If you are not some sort of medical professional or dedicated healer, then, as Loppon has implied, there is maybe less reason to do the YN. In that case, you may be better served by practicing Longchen Nyingthig, Chokling Tersar, Dudjom Tersar, or Jang-ter. You also need to consider Dr. Nida's peripatetic schedule. If you are more interested in the medical side of the YN, that might not be an issue. You are probably used to doing post-graduate education via workshops. If you are more interested in the spiritual side of things, you might consider studying with a Teacher with Whom you can spend more time on a regular basis or Who is really only focused of Buddhist study and practice. However, Dr. Nida's spiritual lineages are authentic and excellent and He has done lots and lots of practice (including Longchen Nyingthig and some Dudjom Tersar).

As far as Dr. Nida's teaching skills, I think they are quite good. I think His English is very good. In my own case, Dr. Nida has been generous in meeting with me outside of class to give me YN lungs/transmissions I have requested.

Hope this gives you a little more information.
Thank you very much. I do not consider myself a medicine practitioner, but I was drawn to it because of its 7 day ngondro, which I realised may be for me. Also, reading Dr Nida’s books, I was drawn even more because of his style of teaching. I am more drawn to the spiritual side of the lineage though. However, he seem to give many spiritual side of the teachings every year he comes to Singapore, so I will be talking the opportunity to have consultations and empowerment’s from him. Does he have a social media ( Facebook, email, WhatsApp, Line, Wechat eg.. ) where students from afar can contact him should they need help in their current practise?

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Re: Yuthok nyingthik ( your views? )

Post by pemachophel » Mon Aug 06, 2018 3:52 pm

Matthew,

If you do the 7-day YN ngondro, that only allows you to do the other sadhanas of YN. It doesn't allow you to do advanced practices or receive advanced teachings in other lineages (LN, DT, CT, etc.). So if you're thinking this is a shortcut in terms of ngondro, it's not exactly that. It's only a shortcut if you only stay within the YN.

Also, IME, it's not good to try to take shortcuts in the practice of Dharma. IME, best to take one's time and do whatever the practices are to their maximum, not minimum, or as Lama Dawa used to say, "in a perfect way." I know for me, when I have tried to do things the shortest or quickest way, I've only had to eventually go back and do it the "right" way."

You can contact Dr. Nida on FB through Sorig Khang International.

Good luck & best wishes.
Pema Chophel པདྨ་ཆོས་འཕེལ

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Re: Yuthok nyingthik ( your views? )

Post by MatthewAngby » Mon Aug 06, 2018 4:37 pm

pemachophel wrote:
Mon Aug 06, 2018 3:52 pm
Matthew,

If you do the 7-day YN ngondro, that only allows you to do the other sadhanas of YN. It doesn't allow you to do advanced practices or receive advanced teachings in other lineages (LN, DT, CT, etc.). So if you're thinking this is a shortcut in terms of ngondro, it's not exactly that. It's only a shortcut if you only stay within the YN.

Also, IME, it's not good to try to take shortcuts in the practice of Dharma. IME, best to take one's time and do whatever the practices are to their maximum, not minimum, or as Lama Dawa used to say, "in a perfect way." I know for me, when I have tried to do things the shortest or quickest way, I've only had to eventually go back and do it the "right" way."

You can contact Dr. Nida on FB through Sorig Khang International.

Good luck & best wishes.
Oh yes I am aware of it 😊. I’ve come to realised that perhaps the ngondro Everyday thing for me didn’t really work out for me, so maybe a more “ concised “ one could help, lest I become stressed and uptight again. And yes, I’ll try not to take shortcuts. Thank you anyways! 🙏🏼

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Re: Yuthok nyingthik ( your views? )

Post by pemachophel » Mon Aug 06, 2018 7:47 pm

J.D.,

I think mostly medical professionals, i.e., doctors of all systems, massage therapists, physical therapists, homeopaths, Rolfers, herbalists, all that kind of thing.
Pema Chophel པདྨ་ཆོས་འཕེལ

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Re: Yuthok nyingthik ( your views? )

Post by dharmafootsteps » Tue Aug 07, 2018 2:52 am

MatthewAngby wrote:
Mon Aug 06, 2018 4:37 pm
I’ve come to realised that perhaps the ngondro Everyday thing for me didn’t really work out for me, so maybe a more “ concised “ one could help, lest I become stressed and uptight again.
I'm not sure a different, shorter ngöndro will help the issue you're having. I presume you want to develop some sort of daily practice, whether it's ngöndro or not.

It's unlikely that for someone relatively new, doing ngöndro over the course of 7 days will have anything like the effect of a longer one. And once it's done, then what? You get a daily sadhana practice to do, with samaya? If you have difficult doing some ngöndro practice everyday, do you not think you might find it difficult doing that, and "become stressed and uptight again"?

What is it about other ngöndros you've had difficulty with? Do you think it's just that specific practice, and you'd have no problems doing other practices on a daily basis? Or is it doing consistent daily practice at all?

I'd suggest examining, 1) if you're ready for ngöndro, and 2) what your aversion to it is. Then discussing your conclusions with a qualified teacher.

Phakchok Rinpoche for example has his students do two years of consistent daily mediation before starting ngöndro. Chökyi Nyima Rinpoche's Tara program works out similarly.

Lastly if it's some aversion to ngöndro specifically, I'd highly recommend this in order to better understand the depth and beauty of this practice: https://www.amazon.com/Turning-Confusio ... 1611801214

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Re: Yuthok nyingthik ( your views? )

Post by MatthewAngby » Tue Aug 07, 2018 8:11 am

dharmafootsteps wrote:
Tue Aug 07, 2018 2:52 am
MatthewAngby wrote:
Mon Aug 06, 2018 4:37 pm
I’ve come to realised that perhaps the ngondro Everyday thing for me didn’t really work out for me, so maybe a more “ concised “ one could help, lest I become stressed and uptight again.
I'm not sure a different, shorter ngöndro will help the issue you're having. I presume you want to develop some sort of daily practice, whether it's ngöndro or not.

It's unlikely that for someone relatively new, doing ngöndro over the course of 7 days will have anything like the effect of a longer one. And once it's done, then what? You get a daily sadhana practice to do, with samaya? If you have difficult doing some ngöndro practice everyday, do you not think you might find it difficult doing that, and "become stressed and uptight again"?

What is it about other ngöndros you've had difficulty with? Do you think it's just that specific practice, and you'd have no problems doing other practices on a daily basis? Or is it doing consistent daily practice at all?

I'd suggest examining, 1) if you're ready for ngöndro, and 2) what your aversion to it is. Then discussing your conclusions with a qualified teacher.

Phakchok Rinpoche for example has his students do two years of consistent daily mediation before starting ngöndro. Chökyi Nyima Rinpoche's Tara program works out similarly.

Lastly if it's some aversion to ngöndro specifically, I'd highly recommend this in order to better understand the depth and beauty of this practice: https://www.amazon.com/Turning-Confusio ... 1611801214
Actually, I tend to be very stressed of the daily ngondro practices. I have heard that in the YN, they belive in the swift blessings of the lineage. The 7 days ngondro, due to its concise-ness, will actually act as an incentive to make me do more of it in the future. Yes I’ll be telling my teacher about it too when I meet him.

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Re: Yuthok nyingthik ( your views? )

Post by Grigoris » Tue Aug 07, 2018 8:23 am

MatthewAngby wrote:
Tue Aug 07, 2018 8:11 am
Actually, I tend to be very stressed of the daily ngondro practices. I have heard that in the YN, they belive in the swift blessings of the lineage. The 7 days ngondro, due to its concise-ness, will actually act as an incentive to make me do more of it in the future. Yes I’ll be telling my teacher about it too when I meet him.
If preliminary practices stress you, then you should probably NOT be practicing Vajrayana.

If you are stressed by the idea of doing 100,000 of a practice then what will happen when you get a Yidam and have to do 100,000 repetitions of each syllable of the practice* just to complete the approach?

* For example: if you were to do the approach for the Vajra Guru mantra, you would need to do 1,200,000 repetitions of the mantra.
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde

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Re: Yuthok nyingthik ( your views? )

Post by Marc » Tue Aug 07, 2018 9:10 am

Grigoris wrote:
Tue Aug 07, 2018 8:23 am
MatthewAngby wrote:
Tue Aug 07, 2018 8:11 am
Actually, I tend to be very stressed of the daily ngondro practices. I have heard that in the YN, they belive in the swift blessings of the lineage. The 7 days ngondro, due to its concise-ness, will actually act as an incentive to make me do more of it in the future. Yes I’ll be telling my teacher about it too when I meet him.
If preliminary practices stress you, then you should probably NOT be practicing Vajrayana.

If you are stressed by the idea of doing 100,000 of a practice then what will happen when you get a Yidam and have to do 100,000 repetitions of each syllable of the practice* just to complete the approach?

* For example: if you were to do the apprach for the Vajra Guru mantra, you would need to do 1,200,000 repetitions of the mantra.
Or...
1st Noble Truth anyone ?
Could it be that, leaving aside wordly disctraction for a moment, practicing simply reveals the stress that he creates in his experience ?
Or could it also be that this « negative feedback » shows something non-efficient / unskilfull in the way he approaches Dharma practice in general ?

If I remember correctly, Matthew also complained a few months ago about mindfulness of breathing...

Matthew, if I may:
You have a very precious and direct teaching to extract from these unpleasant experiences.
As you may know, in Tibetan, buddhists are called « nangpa » /«  insiders ».
This means (amongts other meanings) that a buddhist is someone who, at least, tries to stop « pointing fingers », to stop blaiming outward conditions for his problems, stresses, miseries & sorrows.  
Instead, knowing that the cause is within, he looks inside to see how all these are his own unskillfull creations.
Getting insight into this, he will undo all this inner mess, bring suffering to an end, hopefully not only for himself but also for others.

We can see by reading your posts on the forum, that you are (and this is totally normal for a young man) very passionate and somehow a little bit agitated...

Whatever practice, try to do it in a much, much more relaxed and enjoyable way.
If you feel the stress building up, try to see how & why this happens and adjust accordingly.

Gently, steadily, patiently observe your inner experience ...
Gain clarity and insight into this subtle « inner mechanics »...
For the vast majority of us, non-cikcharwas / « non-instantaneous ones», practices is a slow trial & error, tinkering process in the « experimental lab » of our practices, and ultimately, our lifes.

Wishing you the best :namaste:
Marc
Last edited by Marc on Tue Aug 07, 2018 9:18 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Yuthok nyingthik ( your views? )

Post by pael » Tue Aug 07, 2018 9:18 am

Grigoris wrote:
Tue Aug 07, 2018 8:23 am
If preliminary practices stress you, then you should probably NOT be practicing Vajrayana.
What should we do in this case? Having received empowerments already. Can Vajrasattva take me to the Pure Land?
May all beings be free from suffering and causes of suffering

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Re: Yuthok nyingthik ( your views? )

Post by Miroku » Tue Aug 07, 2018 10:02 am

pael wrote:
Tue Aug 07, 2018 9:18 am
Grigoris wrote:
Tue Aug 07, 2018 8:23 am
If preliminary practices stress you, then you should probably NOT be practicing Vajrayana.
What should we do in this case? Having received empowerments already. Can Vajrasattva take me to the Pure Land?
Yes. And most importantly it can take you to a full enlightenment in few lifetimes or even in one. What you should do is to keep samayas pure.
Child, if you are not hypocritical and out of control, that is conduct.
~ Padampa Sangye

You say such clever things to people, but you do not apply them to yourself.
The faults within you are the ones to be exposed.
~ Padampa Sangye

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Re: Yuthok nyingthik ( your views? )

Post by Grigoris » Tue Aug 07, 2018 10:23 am

pael wrote:
Tue Aug 07, 2018 9:18 am
Grigoris wrote:
Tue Aug 07, 2018 8:23 am
If preliminary practices stress you, then you should probably NOT be practicing Vajrayana.
What should we do in this case? Having received empowerments already. Can Vajrasattva take me to the Pure Land?
Vajrasattva practice can lead to liberation.
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde

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Re: Yuthok nyingthik ( your views? )

Post by WeiHan » Tue Aug 07, 2018 12:00 pm

dharmafootsteps wrote:
Tue Aug 07, 2018 2:52 am
MatthewAngby wrote:
Mon Aug 06, 2018 4:37 pm
I’ve come to realised that perhaps the ngondro Everyday thing for me didn’t really work out for me, so maybe a more “ concised “ one could help, lest I become stressed and uptight again.
I'm not sure a different, shorter ngöndro will help the issue you're having. I presume you want to develop some sort of daily practice, whether it's ngöndro or not.

It's unlikely that for someone relatively new, doing ngöndro over the course of 7 days will have anything like the effect of a longer one. And once it's done, then what? You get a daily sadhana practice to do, with samaya? If you have difficult doing some ngöndro practice everyday, do you not think you might find it difficult doing that, and "become stressed and uptight again"?

What is it about other ngöndros you've had difficulty with? Do you think it's just that specific practice, and you'd have no problems doing other practices on a daily basis? Or is it doing consistent daily practice at all?

I'd suggest examining, 1) if you're ready for ngöndro, and 2) what your aversion to it is. Then discussing your conclusions with a qualified teacher.

Phakchok Rinpoche for example has his students do two years of consistent daily mediation before starting ngöndro. Chökyi Nyima Rinpoche's Tara program works out similarly.

Lastly if it's some aversion to ngöndro specifically, I'd highly recommend this in order to better understand the depth and beauty of this practice: https://www.amazon.com/Turning-Confusio ... 1611801214
Recently, I read in a teaching by a Rinpoche in Tibet that one practitioner they have known attained rainbowbody by doing ONLY mandala offering practice.

I think stressed or not stressed is determined largely by mindset and attitude. What goal are you setting? What is your motivation? Maybe, you treat ngondro and the "prerequisite" number as a license to receive higher teaching? But what is the worry? These days, higher teachings are given quite liberally, not requiring much ngondro, not just YN and some can even be received online. So, I don't see that is the point. It may not necessarily a bad idea to receive the complete range of teaching from the "lowest" to "highest". However, the student should have the correct understanding that that is not the end of one's quest for enlightenment.

A large section of genuine lamas maintained the view that obstacles to enlightenment or siddhis attainment are insufficient purification of negative karma and accumulation of merits. they maintain that the path to accomplishment are 1) purification of negative karma and accumulation of merit and 2) Guru's blessing. Beyond these there are no other path. Without these, higher practices are unlikely to be accomplish.

however, these days, many Gurus' challenges is not teaching directly to their followers the correct path to enlightenment but how to strike a balance so that the students' interest can be maintained at the same time.

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Re: Yuthok nyingthik ( your views? )

Post by pael » Tue Aug 07, 2018 12:09 pm

Grigoris wrote:
Tue Aug 07, 2018 10:23 am
pael wrote:
Tue Aug 07, 2018 9:18 am
Grigoris wrote:
Tue Aug 07, 2018 8:23 am
If preliminary practices stress you, then you should probably NOT be practicing Vajrayana.
What should we do in this case? Having received empowerments already. Can Vajrasattva take me to the Pure Land?
Vajrasattva practice can lead to liberation.
Can lead or will lead?
May all beings be free from suffering and causes of suffering

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Re: Yuthok nyingthik ( your views? )

Post by Aryjna » Tue Aug 07, 2018 12:43 pm

pael wrote:
Tue Aug 07, 2018 12:09 pm
Grigoris wrote:
Tue Aug 07, 2018 10:23 am
pael wrote:
Tue Aug 07, 2018 9:18 am

What should we do in this case? Having received empowerments already. Can Vajrasattva take me to the Pure Land?
Vajrasattva practice can lead to liberation.
Can lead or will lead?
If having a human birth with the freedoms and advantages is like a blind turtle etc., having the freedoms and advantages and also having met the Vajrayana is like the turtle winning the lottery after putting its head through the yoke. It is already guaranteed that you don't have much time left in samsara.

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Re: Yuthok nyingthik ( your views? )

Post by Grigoris » Tue Aug 07, 2018 12:50 pm

pael wrote:
Tue Aug 07, 2018 12:09 pm
Grigoris wrote:
Tue Aug 07, 2018 10:23 am
pael wrote:
Tue Aug 07, 2018 9:18 am

What should we do in this case? Having received empowerments already. Can Vajrasattva take me to the Pure Land?
Vajrasattva practice can lead to liberation.
Can lead or will lead?
"Can". You need to practice like your life depends on it, in order for it to become "will".
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde

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