Lung always given at time of empowerment?

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Pema Rigdzin
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Lung always given at time of empowerment?

Post by Pema Rigdzin » Thu Oct 25, 2018 3:25 am

So of course nowadays I know that yidam practice functions in dependence on not only wang, but also lung and tri. But once upon a time I didn't know that, so if the lung hadn't been given I wouldn't have even known what I was missing, and now I want to practice some of the sadhanas from those early empowerments, but I don't know for sure if the lung was actually given at the time. Any of you experienced mainstream Nyingma lamas giving the empowerment alone but not the lung at that time (outside of one of those whole cycle empowerment marathons where they might give all the lungs one after another on the last day)?

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Josef
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Re: Lung always given at time of empowerment?

Post by Josef » Thu Oct 25, 2018 5:04 am

Pema Rigdzin wrote:
Thu Oct 25, 2018 3:25 am
So of course nowadays I know that yidam practice functions in dependence on not only wang, but also lung and tri. But once upon a time I didn't know that, so if the lung hadn't been given I wouldn't have even known what I was missing, and now I want to practice some of the sadhanas from those early empowerments, but I don't know for sure if the lung was actually given at the time. Any of you experienced mainstream Nyingma lamas giving the empowerment alone but not the lung at that time (outside of one of those whole cycle empowerment marathons where they might give all the lungs one after another on the last day)?
It’s common for empowerments to be given without a lung.
Kye ma!
The river of continuity is marked by impermanence.
Ceaseless flowing of appearance.
Beautiful and repulsive.
The dance of life and death is a display of the vast expanse.
With gratitude the watcher and the watched pass through the barrier of duality.

Sennin
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Re: Lung always given at time of empowerment?

Post by Sennin » Thu Oct 25, 2018 11:44 am

Josef wrote:
Thu Oct 25, 2018 5:04 am

It’s common for empowerments to be given without a lung.
What about the mantra? Isn't that usually given during the empowerment?
"One should always recite mantra, purifying the body."
--Cakrasaṃvara Tantra

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Miroku
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Re: Lung always given at time of empowerment?

Post by Miroku » Thu Oct 25, 2018 12:27 pm

Sennin wrote:
Thu Oct 25, 2018 11:44 am
Josef wrote:
Thu Oct 25, 2018 5:04 am

It’s common for empowerments to be given without a lung.
What about the mantra? Isn't that usually given during the empowerment?
Yes that is.
I think Malcolm once said in one of the threads that empowerments are usually/often connected to some concrete sadhana so the lung does not need to be necessarily given for it. But I might be sorely mistaken.
A boat delivers you to the other riverbank.
A needle stitches up your clothes.
A horse takes you where you want to go.
Bodhicitta will bring you to Buddhahood.
~ Khunu Lama Rinpoche

Even non-buddhists have many virtuous accomplishments
~ Jigten Sumgon

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Grigoris
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Re: Lung always given at time of empowerment?

Post by Grigoris » Thu Oct 25, 2018 6:21 pm

Miroku wrote:
Thu Oct 25, 2018 12:27 pm
Yes that is.
I think Malcolm once said in one of the threads that empowerments are usually/often connected to some concrete sadhana so the lung does not need to be necessarily given for it. But I might be sorely mistaken.
I seem to remember the same thing too.
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
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Malcolm
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Re: Lung always given at time of empowerment?

Post by Malcolm » Thu Oct 25, 2018 7:04 pm

In general, the lung for the sadhana is included in a given empowerment/blessing/permission rite, since the visualization read by the lama for the students is taken directly from the sadhana, as are the refuge, etc. prayers one recites in the empowerment, etc.

However, for any given deity cycle there can be several different sadhanas of different lengths with different details, so one needs generally to get the lung for these separately. But in some case, giving the lung for the longest sadhana is considered to be sufficient for the shorter sadhanas as well. It depends somewhat on the master and the tradition.

In general, however, for permission rites, there is only one sadhana, and in this case, usually the permission rite is sufficient, all one needs following that is the explanation.

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Josef
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Re: Lung always given at time of empowerment?

Post by Josef » Thu Oct 25, 2018 10:30 pm

Sennin wrote:
Thu Oct 25, 2018 11:44 am
Josef wrote:
Thu Oct 25, 2018 5:04 am

It’s common for empowerments to be given without a lung.
What about the mantra? Isn't that usually given during the empowerment?
Yes, the mantra is transmitted in the empowerment.
Kye ma!
The river of continuity is marked by impermanence.
Ceaseless flowing of appearance.
Beautiful and repulsive.
The dance of life and death is a display of the vast expanse.
With gratitude the watcher and the watched pass through the barrier of duality.

Pema Rigdzin
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Location: Southern Oregon

Re: Lung always given at time of empowerment?

Post by Pema Rigdzin » Fri Oct 26, 2018 1:04 am

Thanks so much, guys! That makes me happy to find out I already have what I was hoping to get.

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Douglas Westbury
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Re: Lung always given at time of empowerment?

Post by Douglas Westbury » Thu Jan 10, 2019 11:32 am

Pema Rigdzin wrote:
Fri Oct 26, 2018 1:04 am
Thanks so much, guys! That makes me happy to find out I already have what I was hoping to get.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Empowerment_(Vajrayana)

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