Praying to Jetsun Dolma

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tenzinlhazey
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Praying to Jetsun Dolma

Post by tenzinlhazey » Sun Sep 08, 2019 9:45 am

Dear friends,
I was wondering how effective do you think praying is?
I know a lot of Tibetans pray to Jetsun Dolma to purify obstacles.
A part of me has some what of a doubt so would like to hear your answers.

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Könchok Thrinley
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Re: Praying to Jetsun Dolma

Post by Könchok Thrinley » Sun Sep 08, 2019 10:01 am

tenzinlhazey wrote:
Sun Sep 08, 2019 9:45 am
Dear friends,
I was wondering how effective do you think praying is?
I know a lot of Tibetans pray to Jetsun Dolma to purify obstacles.
A part of me has some what of a doubt so would like to hear your answers.
Absolutely effective. However, it depends on you and how heartfelt it is and also many other factors but there is deffinetly benefit. Some lower tantras are in a way a form of "praying" as you imagine the deity infront of you and offer praises and recite it's mantra, etc.
“Observing samaya involves to remain inseparable from the union of wisdom and compassion at all times, to sustain mindfulness, and to put into practice the guru’s instructions”. Garchen Rinpoche

Formerly known as Miroku.

pemachophel
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Re: Praying to Jetsun Dolma

Post by pemachophel » Sun Sep 08, 2019 6:54 pm

At the beginning of our Buddhist practice (and perhaps even for many years), we experience praying with our deluded, dualistic mind. At some point on the path, with perseverance and merit, dualism disappears and one realizes that it is the wisdom mind that is praying and that no thought, word, or action is ever for naught. When this happens, doubt also disappears and you feel like praying/practicing more and more since you are absolutely sure of its effectiveness. Then one's practice progresses exponentially, faster and faster. Belief or faith leads to confidence and confidence leads to obvious results of one's practice. Experiencing those results then leads to even more belief/faith, more practice, and ever more results. Now one has lift-off. Unfortunately, there's no short to make this happen, only more and more practice, more and more prayer until one pierces the veil of one's everyday deluded thinking mind. Anyway, that's what I heard from my Teacher.

Je-tsun Phak-ma Drol-ma-la Chag-tshal-lo!

Good luck & best wishes.
Pema Chophel པདྨ་ཆོས་འཕེལ

Fortyeightvows
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Re: Praying to Jetsun Dolma

Post by Fortyeightvows » Sun Sep 08, 2019 10:21 pm

I was wondering how effective do you think praying is?
There is another thread about this recently.

What does it mean to be effective and who decides?
Absolutely effective. However, it depends on you and how heartfelt it is and also many other factors
What other factors?

Fortyeightvows
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Re: Praying to Jetsun Dolma

Post by Fortyeightvows » Sun Sep 08, 2019 11:24 pm

tenzinlhazey wrote:
Sun Sep 08, 2019 9:45 am
I was wondering how effective do you think praying is?
So we'd have to make it clear what we would say is 'effective'.

There is an article out there called "Should academic medical centers conduct clinical trials of the efficacy of intercessory prayer?", it was published first by an american medical journal and then republished in a very good religious anthropology textbook which is where I saw it.

In the article, Dr Halperin cites a study where intercessory prayer (where someone is praying for other people) was tested. The people praying for others included "Buddhist monks in Nepal" a "Carmelite Convent" and a (probably protestant) "Christian prayer center in Missouri" (USA). The study concluded that the outcome of those prayed for was better than the control group. (unfortunately the article doesn't say who's prayers were the most effective.)

The article goes on to discuss many different studies which have been done, some of these studies he cites show benefit to prayer, others show no effect.

The article cites some of the reasons why these studies should be done, and some reasons why they should not.
Among objections to these types of studies are questions of "dose". The article states
unless we have some concept of dose, we cannot study the effect of prayer as therapy
How "much" prayer works? How is prayer measured? Is it measured by the time, by the degree of fervency of the prayer, and/pr by the degree of sincerity or faith of the prayer? Does the faith tradition (e.g., Buddhism Christianity, etc.) of the intercessor matter?
Also:
Establishing a true control group of person for whom there is no prayer may be impossible. Patients and their friends and family will certainly pray for recovery. Enemies may pray for the reverse.
So, in talking about if prayer is effective, there is so much to consider.
quad wrote:
Thu Sep 05, 2019 6:46 pm
Thoughts are appreciated. I sincerely want to understand the position on this of so many members here who’s candid thoughts I’ve cherished for a long time.
Just wanted to tag in Mr. Q.

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Lingpupa
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Re: Praying to Jetsun Dolma

Post by Lingpupa » Mon Sep 09, 2019 8:36 am

Fortyeightvows wrote:
Sun Sep 08, 2019 11:24 pm
There is an article out there called "Should academic medical centers conduct clinical trials of the efficacy of intercessory prayer?", it was published first by an american medical journal and then republished in a very good religious anthropology textbook which is where I saw it.

In the article, Dr Halperin cites a study where intercessory prayer (where someone is praying for other people) was tested. The people praying for others included "Buddhist monks in Nepal" a "Carmelite Convent" and a (probably protestant) "Christian prayer center in Missouri" (USA). The study concluded that the outcome of those prayed for was better than the control group. (unfortunately the article doesn't say who's prayers were the most effective.)
Unfortunately it has so far proved impossible to replicate. Of course, as you suggest, there are many factors, mostly not studied. But to date the scientific evidence for this is very weak indeed. (Much as it would be nice.)
All the best
Alex Wilding
Stupa in the Snow blog at http://chagchen.org/

Sādhaka
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Re: Praying to Jetsun Dolma

Post by Sādhaka » Mon Sep 09, 2019 9:15 am

pemachophel wrote:
Sun Sep 08, 2019 6:54 pm
At the beginning of our Buddhist practice (and perhaps even for many years), we experience praying with our deluded, dualistic mind. At some point on the path, with perseverance and merit, dualism disappears and one realizes that it is the wisdom mind that is praying and that no thought, word, or action is ever for naught. When this happens, doubt also disappears and you feel like praying/practicing more and more since you are absolutely sure of its effectiveness. Then one's practice progresses exponentially, faster and faster. Belief or faith leads to confidence and confidence leads to obvious results of one's practice. Experiencing those results then leads to even more belief/faith, more practice, and ever more results. Now one has lift-off. Unfortunately, there's no short to make this happen, only more and more practice, more and more prayer until one pierces the veil of one's everyday deluded thinking mind. Anyway, that's what I heard from my Teacher.

Je-tsun Phak-ma Drol-ma-la Chag-tshal-lo!

Good luck & best wishes.

:good:

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