Found bodhi mala. 94 beads?

Fortyeightvows
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Re: Found bodhi mala. 94 beads?

Post by Fortyeightvows » Fri Dec 06, 2019 11:38 am

heart wrote:
Fri Dec 06, 2019 10:35 am
Fortyeightvows wrote:
Fri Dec 06, 2019 9:01 am
heart wrote:
Wed Dec 04, 2019 6:05 am


Yes, that is a classic mala for prostrations.
27 beads for prostrations
How about the 21 bead mala ?
27 x 4 = 108 The size make it easy to hold in the hand while doing prostrations. 21 bead mala don't have any use in my universe. :smile:

/magnus
But why the 21 bead mala ?

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Ayu
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Re: Found bodhi mala. 94 beads?

Post by Ayu » Fri Dec 06, 2019 1:14 pm

Mantra recitation often is counted in 108 or lessened in 21 or lessened in 7.
21 or 7 is often chosen as minimum amount for recitation per day.

A 21 beads mala fits better into my hand. I count 21x5 = 105, +3 = 108 :shrug:
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Re: Found bodhi mala. 94 beads?

Post by KonchogUrgyenNyima » Fri Dec 06, 2019 8:25 pm

I'm quite certain it's not new. I'm not sure how old it is but it's definitely not new.
looking at the string it was on and the residue in between the beads, there's no way it's new.
can anyone speak to the "phoenix eye" phenomena? i'm pretty sure this is a phoenix eye bodhi seed mala and I want to give a small mala made out of these seeds to a lama as a gift after cleansing the materials, but I want to make sure I'm not giving him something less special than I think it is.

I know, I know, pure perception and all that. I just want to make sure these are those seeds. It definitely has what looks like little eyes on every bead, but i'm no expert so it's hard to tell. I can upload a close up of the eye pattern if it helps

TrimePema
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Re: Found bodhi mala. 94 beads?

Post by TrimePema » Fri Dec 06, 2019 8:44 pm

heart wrote:
Fri Dec 06, 2019 10:35 am
Fortyeightvows wrote:
Fri Dec 06, 2019 9:01 am
heart wrote:
Wed Dec 04, 2019 6:05 am


Yes, that is a classic mala for prostrations.
27 beads for prostrations
How about the 21 bead mala ?
27 x 4 = 108 The size make it easy to hold in the hand while doing prostrations. 21 bead mala don't have any use in my universe. :smile:

/magnus
21 is generally for wrathful practices.

TrimePema
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Re: Found bodhi mala. 94 beads?

Post by TrimePema » Fri Dec 06, 2019 8:48 pm

KonchogUrgyenNyima wrote:
Fri Dec 06, 2019 8:25 pm
I'm quite certain it's not new. I'm not sure how old it is but it's definitely not new.
looking at the string it was on and the residue in between the beads, there's no way it's new.
can anyone speak to the "phoenix eye" phenomena? i'm pretty sure this is a phoenix eye bodhi seed mala and I want to give a small mala made out of these seeds to a lama as a gift after cleansing the materials, but I want to make sure I'm not giving him something less special than I think it is.

I know, I know, pure perception and all that. I just want to make sure these are those seeds. It definitely has what looks like little eyes on every bead, but i'm no expert so it's hard to tell. I can upload a close up of the eye pattern if it helps
Yes that is correct. These are "phoenix eye" which means Nepali bodhi seed originally from the Timal region. They come from Guru Rinpoche and it is said that with true pure perception the contents of the seeds can be seen to actually be mantras.

They are very special in general. In terms of rarity, however, they are not exceedingly rare unless they are less than 10mm in size. Either way, many Rinpoches and lamas will use the larger sizes regardless (even up to 15mm I've seen). It's a good gift but as Pema-la has already said there is some karmic situations to consider if it's been used by someone else.

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Re: Found bodhi mala. 94 beads?

Post by KonchogUrgyenNyima » Fri Dec 06, 2019 9:08 pm

thank you for this excellent answer my friend. Do you have information on how to cleanse them? They can't just be useless.
I'm going to see my root lama very soon. He can probably bless them and make them good for use?

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Re: Found bodhi mala. 94 beads?

Post by tingdzin » Sat Dec 07, 2019 7:48 am

Hang on to the beads in any case. They are hard to come by these days.

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Re: Found bodhi mala. 94 beads?

Post by Ayu » Sat Dec 07, 2019 8:45 am

I find these hints quite okay: How to cleanse your mala beads https://www.malacollective.com/blogs/ma ... mala-beads

Since this article does not mention bodhi beads I would not lay the mala into water. It is organic material that could swell in worst case. I would use warm water, a smell-free soap and a brush. And I would dry them immediately after washing. Then the idea to oil them slightly is fine, I believe.

And I would use all three possibilities of spiritual cleansing: sunlight, sage-smoke and mantra. If you have no dried sage leaves to burn, I would get some essential sage oil and add some few drops into the cleansing oil.

And I would try to check with some deep layer of my mind, if the procedure was successful or not. Possibly it is not easy to really clean it. On the other hand vibrations can be neutralized always, I believe. The only inconvenient fact is: you cannot know, which kind of vibration and story sticks at this mala.
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Re: Found bodhi mala. 94 beads?

Post by TrimePema » Sat Dec 07, 2019 7:32 pm

Ayu wrote:
Sat Dec 07, 2019 8:45 am
I find these hints quite okay: How to cleanse your mala beads https://www.malacollective.com/blogs/ma ... mala-beads

Since this article does not mention bodhi beads I would not lay the mala into water. It is organic material that could swell in worst case. I would use warm water, a smell-free soap and a brush. And I would dry them immediately after washing. Then the idea to oil them slightly is fine, I believe.

And I would use all three possibilities of spiritual cleansing: sunlight, sage-smoke and mantra. If you have no dried sage leaves to burn, I would get some essential sage oil and add some few drops into the cleansing oil.

And I would try to check with some deep layer of my mind, if the procedure was successful or not. Possibly it is not easy to really clean it. On the other hand vibrations can be neutralized always, I believe. The only inconvenient fact is: you cannot know, which kind of vibration and story sticks at this mala.
that will not purify them the way we are speaking about it.

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Re: Found bodhi mala. 94 beads?

Post by TrimePema » Sat Dec 07, 2019 7:33 pm

KonchogUrgyenNyima wrote:
Fri Dec 06, 2019 9:08 pm
thank you for this excellent answer my friend. Do you have information on how to cleanse them? They can't just be useless.
I'm going to see my root lama very soon. He can probably bless them and make them good for use?
your lama can do a purification ritual to cleanse negativity from other peoples' karma. ask him.

also, dont ever use water to clean bodhi seeds. they will crack and be destroyed. use two drops of sandalwood oil (pure indian) in your hand and rub it all around the mala. sandalwood has multiple effects, the most obvious one is warding demons which come in many forms as obstacles and negativity...


likewise, cleansing with sun or moon energy is as I understand it only for imbuing an object with the astrological properties of sun or moon and should not be done with every material. then you also have the issue of specific days to do that, full moon and eclipse, clear days, etc.

sound cleansing doesnt really exist - with singing bowls lol

you cant just say mantra over an item and have it blessed. you need to have accomplishment in that mantra. likewise, the best blessing for an item is the samadhi blessing which generally you can get from powerful lamas.

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Re: Found bodhi mala. 94 beads?

Post by Ayu » Sat Dec 07, 2019 9:17 pm

TrimePema wrote:
Sat Dec 07, 2019 7:32 pm
Ayu wrote:
Sat Dec 07, 2019 8:45 am
I find these hints quite okay: How to cleanse your mala beads https://www.malacollective.com/blogs/ma ... mala-beads

Since this article does not mention bodhi beads I would not lay the mala into water. It is organic material that could swell in worst case. I would use warm water, a smell-free soap and a brush. And I would dry them immediately after washing. Then the idea to oil them slightly is fine, I believe.

And I would use all three possibilities of spiritual cleansing: sunlight, sage-smoke and mantra. If you have no dried sage leaves to burn, I would get some essential sage oil and add some few drops into the cleansing oil.

And I would try to check with some deep layer of my mind, if the procedure was successful or not. Possibly it is not easy to really clean it. On the other hand vibrations can be neutralized always, I believe. The only inconvenient fact is: you cannot know, which kind of vibration and story sticks at this mala.
that will not purify them the way we are speaking about it.
Yes. At the end of my post I was trying to express my doubts as well.
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Re: Found bodhi mala. 94 beads?

Post by Mantrik » Sat Dec 07, 2019 9:50 pm

KonchogUrgyenNyima wrote:
Fri Dec 06, 2019 9:08 pm
thank you for this excellent answer my friend. Do you have information on how to cleanse them? They can't just be useless.
I'm going to see my root lama very soon. He can probably bless them and make them good for use?
There are mantras and incense methods, but best of all is for a Lama to bless them. Simply use it and it will be blessed through recitation in the meanwhile.
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Re: Found bodhi mala. 94 beads?

Post by TrimePema » Sat Dec 07, 2019 10:57 pm

Mantrik wrote:
Sat Dec 07, 2019 9:50 pm
KonchogUrgyenNyima wrote:
Fri Dec 06, 2019 9:08 pm
thank you for this excellent answer my friend. Do you have information on how to cleanse them? They can't just be useless.
I'm going to see my root lama very soon. He can probably bless them and make them good for use?
There are mantras and incense methods, but best of all is for a Lama to bless them. Simply use it and it will be blessed through recitation in the meanwhile.
he should definitely not use it before it is purified and blessed if he is unsure whether it has been used before.

here's the difference:

Lama blessing: Lama has accomplishment in the mantras and methods to bless an item, however they are going to do it. Even better, they might have samadhi power that can bless the item.

Purification: In general there are methods using substances to purify. Such as incense and mustard seeds, sandalwood, juniper, etc. But again, this requires one to know the instructions and follow correctly.

Then there is the self blessing, which is like when you pick up the mala and use it and say certain blessing mantras etc. This doesnt actually "bless" it when a normal person does it. You have to understand what is meant here by blessing. If we mean it imbues it with some kind of positive power, it may or may not be happening depending on your own karmic circumstance - what you think about when you do it, your motivation, etc. This is the reason we dont use other peoples' malas. It's imbued with their karma and you will pick up all kinds of potentially negative things from them. When someone with generally pure motivation and merit touches the mala (like let's say a lama or a Rinpoche) then it is imbued with that positivity as well. Even more so if you see them as a Buddha. But these blessings are a different type than the resultant blessings from the power of samadhi.

Actually, this karmic complication described above is the reason we dont let other people even see our practice malas, let alone touch them. Chokyi Nyima RInpoche complimented someone else's students saying they were reluctant to even show Him and wouldnt let Him touch their practice items and didnt want any blessings because He wasnt their lama.

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Re: Found bodhi mala. 94 beads?

Post by yagmort » Sun Dec 08, 2019 5:45 pm

Konchog, sorry to burst your bubble but it is nothing special. as i said it is cheap and standard nepali mala. the fact it is dirty doesn't mean it is used. the seeds comes mostly from Karve district in Nepal. i've been there, talked to locals and saw the trees. a good "bodhi seeds" mala comes with small, unsanded seeds. 5-6 years ago small bodhiseeds mala were a big trend among chinese, prices skyrocketed up to 1000-2000-3000 $ for a mala, depends on beads size. some occasional seeds have more than one "eye" pattern on them - those are rare and more expensive. locals have been planted more trees due to demand. i haven't been to Nepal since earthquake, so don't know the current situation and prices.
here's an example of unsanded beads:
https://sep.yimg.com/ca/I/yhst-92769565 ... _123455144

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Re: Found bodhi mala. 94 beads?

Post by Ayu » Sun Dec 08, 2019 7:04 pm

Some of these beads show an "eye" although they are not especially polished. It looks as if the seed was about to swell and then it was stopped by drying.

My mala has such an eye - a big one on the guru bead. Looks as if it wants to burst. I find this kind of strange. Looks special.

Does anybody have an idea, if it has a meaning?
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Re: Found bodhi mala. 94 beads?

Post by Sonam Wangchug » Sun Dec 08, 2019 7:07 pm

yagmort wrote:
Sun Dec 08, 2019 5:45 pm
Konchog, sorry to burst your bubble but it is nothing special. as i said it is cheap and standard nepali mala. the fact it is dirty doesn't mean it is used. the seeds comes mostly from Karve district in Nepal. i've been there, talked to locals and saw the trees. a good "bodhi seeds" mala comes with small, unsanded seeds. 5-6 years ago small bodhiseeds mala were a big trend among chinese, prices skyrocketed up to 1000-2000-3000 $ for a mala, depends on beads size. some occasional seeds have more than one "eye" pattern on them - those are rare and more expensive. locals have been planted more trees due to demand. i haven't been to Nepal since earthquake, so don't know the current situation and prices.
here's an example of unsanded beads:
https://sep.yimg.com/ca/I/yhst-92769565 ... _123455144
I am also sorry but, what Yagmort says here is true. It is a Mala more for tourists, not for the serious practitioners.

That is why you can also notice the beads have been sanded down a lot (which is not ideal)

The 'turquoise' are also almost certainly fake. It is perhaps some kind of a specially hardened plastic, Although it is not easy to burn we have tested a Mala exactly like this, the turquoise with those same metal spaces around it, and it turned out to be fake.

In reality as a Mala is a very important implement for ones entire life, it's crucial to get a proper, and authentic one.

Small Bodhi-seeds are quite expensive, there is not much way around that since the price has been raised, However, one can find a proper larger one, which is good until one might have the means to find one that is easier to handle. In the future hopefully prices will reduce. I have found an ideal sized one for 100 dollars, but it is extremely rare to get for such a cheap price, was quite a few years ago, and had to be the right place and right haggle.

To reiterate earlier parts here, while a Mala can indeed be blessed by a high lama which is wonderful. It is really idea 'not' to use a Mala that was previously owned by anyone else. Unless you are absolutely certain that this was a realized practitioner.

Tendrel has a lot to do with result, and while some of these things irk people as being nit-picky, in reality you need the correct circumstances to produce a certain result. Just look at how a Drubchen is set up, or how mendrup is made, the correct causes and conditions have to be in place.

Therefore if one is serious about wanting some attainment in this life, it is best to be careful. There is a book by Zurmang rinpoche on mala's which is quite good.

Some people use Two mala's, one is the one in which they use or show in public, and the other is their practice Mala which they do not show to others.
"To have confidence in the teacher is the ultimate refuge." -Rigzin Jigme Lingpa

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Re: Found bodhi mala. 94 beads?

Post by KonchogUrgyenNyima » Sun Dec 08, 2019 8:33 pm

Thank you all for your answers, I have all the information i need🙏🏽

May beings benefit from our conversation and may we never lose sight of bodhicitta.

TrimePema
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Re: Found bodhi mala. 94 beads?

Post by TrimePema » Sun Dec 08, 2019 9:42 pm

Sonam Wangchug wrote:
Sun Dec 08, 2019 7:07 pm
yagmort wrote:
Sun Dec 08, 2019 5:45 pm
Konchog, sorry to burst your bubble but it is nothing special. as i said it is cheap and standard nepali mala. the fact it is dirty doesn't mean it is used. the seeds comes mostly from Karve district in Nepal. i've been there, talked to locals and saw the trees. a good "bodhi seeds" mala comes with small, unsanded seeds. 5-6 years ago small bodhiseeds mala were a big trend among chinese, prices skyrocketed up to 1000-2000-3000 $ for a mala, depends on beads size. some occasional seeds have more than one "eye" pattern on them - those are rare and more expensive. locals have been planted more trees due to demand. i haven't been to Nepal since earthquake, so don't know the current situation and prices.
here's an example of unsanded beads:
https://sep.yimg.com/ca/I/yhst-92769565 ... _123455144
I am also sorry but, what Yagmort says here is true. It is a Mala more for tourists, not for the serious practitioners.

That is why you can also notice the beads have been sanded down a lot (which is not ideal)

The 'turquoise' are also almost certainly fake. It is perhaps some kind of a specially hardened plastic, Although it is not easy to burn we have tested a Mala exactly like this, the turquoise with those same metal spaces around it, and it turned out to be fake.

In reality as a Mala is a very important implement for ones entire life, it's crucial to get a proper, and authentic one.

Small Bodhi-seeds are quite expensive, there is not much way around that since the price has been raised, However, one can find a proper larger one, which is good until one might have the means to find one that is easier to handle. In the future hopefully prices will reduce. I have found an ideal sized one for 100 dollars, but it is extremely rare to get for such a cheap price, was quite a few years ago, and had to be the right place and right haggle.

To reiterate earlier parts here, while a Mala can indeed be blessed by a high lama which is wonderful. It is really idea 'not' to use a Mala that was previously owned by anyone else. Unless you are absolutely certain that this was a realized practitioner.

Tendrel has a lot to do with result, and while some of these things irk people as being nit-picky, in reality you need the correct circumstances to produce a certain result. Just look at how a Drubchen is set up, or how mendrup is made, the correct causes and conditions have to be in place.

Therefore if one is serious about wanting some attainment in this life, it is best to be careful. There is a book by Zurmang rinpoche on mala's which is quite good.

Some people use Two mala's, one is the one in which they use or show in public, and the other is their practice Mala which they do not show to others.
Polished or not, I've heard from Rinpoches that it does matter and some say it does not matter. Up to you if you like the feel I guess.

A bodhi seed mala is a bodhi seed mala regardless. For serious practitioners, there are only two types of malas: bodhi seed and the specific substance for whatever mantra one is reciting. Generally, bodhi seed are good for every practice.

Bodhi seed malas are special regardless of size.
Special in this case means they are directly connected with Guru Rinpoche and does not have anything to do with price or relative rarity. It is already extremely rare to find a substance with this kind of connection and the fact that you can get one for $20 is amazing, even if it is gigantic and heavy with 108 beads. If it's too heavy, you can make many malas from it. For instance, you can use an 11 bead mala, a 21 bead mala, a 27 bead mala, a 54 bead mala...

yagmort
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Re: Found bodhi mala. 94 beads?

Post by yagmort » Mon Dec 09, 2019 3:41 pm

TrimePema wrote:
Sun Dec 08, 2019 9:42 pm
...Bodhi seed malas are special regardless of size.
Special in this case means they are directly connected with Guru Rinpoche...
not to sound disrespectful, but is there any proof of this connection?
i got impression it s just a marketing.
one Rinpoche i know has a single bead from Pema Karpo's mala, and he told me it's just a piece of wood, nothing special, not a "bodhi seed" anyway.

TrimePema
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Re: Found bodhi mala. 94 beads?

Post by TrimePema » Mon Dec 09, 2019 5:07 pm

yagmort wrote:
Mon Dec 09, 2019 3:41 pm
TrimePema wrote:
Sun Dec 08, 2019 9:42 pm
...Bodhi seed malas are special regardless of size.
Special in this case means they are directly connected with Guru Rinpoche...
not to sound disrespectful, but is there any proof of this connection?
i got impression it s just a marketing.
one Rinpoche i know has a single bead from Pema Karpo's mala, and he told me it's just a piece of wood, nothing special, not a "bodhi seed" anyway.
It is mentioned in the commentaries on practice written by Guru Rinpoche such as Lama Gongdu and also in Dakini's Secret Treasury tantra.

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